So as we surged towards that 4th place like a trophy, you can imagine the Emirates

[World's End Stella]

must have been on a knife edge, filled with anticipation, the hope excruciating.

Or maybe not.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/05/16/arsene-wenger-faces-uphill-struggle-empty-emirates-seats-damning/

[Luis Anaconda]

must have been on a knife edge, filled with anticipation, the hope excruciating.

Or maybe not.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/05/16/arsene-wenger-faces-uphill-struggle-empty-emirates-seats-damning/

There were a fair few empty seats at the FA Cup semi-final as well, if you want to play that line. Not really sure why you try to keep making this point - finishing fourth in the league and you get a prize - qualification for the biggest club tournament in the world. That is quite "like" a trophy - not as good as winning the league but "like" a trophy. The difference between fourth and fifth is massive - like third and fourth in the Olympics. Why this simple fact is beyond your grasp is quite frankly stunning

[Pokster]

There were a fair few empty seats at the FA Cup semi-final as well, if you want to play that line. Not really sure why you try to keep making this point - finishing fourth in the league and you get a prize - qualification for the biggest club tournament in the world. That is quite "like" a trophy - not as good as winning the league but "like" a trophy. The difference between fourth and fifth is massive - like third and fourth in the Olympics. Why this simple fact is beyond your grasp is quite frankly stunning

LA, he's Canadian

[Billy Goat Sverige]

must have been on a knife edge, filled with anticipation, the hope excruciating.

Or maybe not.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2017/05/16/arsene-wenger-faces-uphill-struggle-empty-emirates-seats-damning/

The trouble is all the seats were paid for, even if they were empty.

[Sir C]

There were a fair few empty seats at the FA Cup semi-final as well, if you want to play that line. Not really sure why you try to keep making this point - finishing fourth in the league and you get a prize - qualification for the biggest club tournament in the world. That is quite "like" a trophy - not as good as winning the league but "like" a trophy. The difference between fourth and fifth is massive - like third and fourth in the Olympics. Why this simple fact is beyond your grasp is quite frankly stunning

You have made the classic mistake of engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

That's twice today, as well. It's like you're self-harming, or something.

[World's End Stella]

There were a fair few empty seats at the FA Cup semi-final as well, if you want to play that line. Not really sure why you try to keep making this point - finishing fourth in the league and you get a prize - qualification for the biggest club tournament in the world. That is quite "like" a trophy - not as good as winning the league but "like" a trophy. The difference between fourth and fifth is massive - like third and fourth in the Olympics. Why this simple fact is beyond your grasp is quite frankly stunning

The debate around whether it is 'like' a trophy or not is just a lot of nonsense as 'like' is hardly definitive and it is also not the debate that I originally entered into.

The original point was that I could care less if we make 4th or not and my experience is that an awful lot of Arsenal supporters feel the same way. Some people questioned that view. Wilson's article and the turnout and atmosphere at the Emirates last night suggests I was correct.

[World's End Stella]

You have made the classic mistake of engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

That's twice today, as well. It's like you're self-harming, or something.

You see, straight in with the abuse when someone posts something you disagree with. And then you will try and come across all poncey and tell everyone that they should avoid profanity and be civilized etc etc.

Have a nice day, Charles.

[Monty92]

The debate around whether it is 'like' a trophy or not is just a lot of nonsense as 'like' is hardly definitive and it is also not the debate that I originally entered into.

The original point was that I could care less if we make 4th or not and my experience is that an awful lot of Arsenal supporters feel the same way. Some people questioned that view. Wilson's article and the turnout and atmosphere at the Emirates last night suggests I was correct.

Well whether or not you care is likely to be influenced by your views on Wenger. If you're sufficiently pissed off with him and want him out no matter what, it stands to reason that you'd be indifferent about finishing top four. In fact, there's even a certain logic in wanting us to miss out in the hope that it forces the issue of him leaving.

All things being equal, however, it would be somewhat odd not to care about whether the team you claim to support qualifies for one of the sport's most prestigious competitions (albeit one that is flawed)

[Pokster]

Well whether or not you care is likely to be influenced by your views on Wenger. If you're sufficiently pissed off with him and want him out no matter what, it stands to reason that you'd be indifferent about finishing top four. In fact, there's even a certain logic in wanting us to miss out in the hope that it forces the issue of him leaving.

All things being equal, however, it would be somewhat odd not to care about whether the team you claim to support qualifies for one of the sport's most prestigious competitions (albeit one that is flawed)

It's the knock on effect that i don't get....4th and you get more money, CL football enables you to try to buy better players, CL encourages better players to stay.... so it is a win win situation... and it only adds 8 games onto our season anyway :hide:

[Sir C]

You see, straight in with the abuse when someone posts something you disagree with. And then you will try and come across all poncey and tell everyone that they should avoid profanity and be civilized etc etc.

Have a nice day, Charles.

You think that's abuse? :yikes:

[World's End Stella]

Well whether or not you care is likely to be influenced by your views on Wenger. If you're sufficiently pissed off with him and want him out no matter what, it stands to reason that you'd be indifferent about finishing top four. In fact, there's even a certain logic in wanting us to miss out in the hope that it forces the issue of him leaving.

All things being equal, however, it would be somewhat odd not to care about whether the team you claim to support qualifies for one of the sport's most prestigious competitions (albeit one that is flawed)

Yes, that's right. My indifference to the CL is in part based on my view that as long as Wenger is our manager we have no chance of winning it.

Also, on a practical level I fail to see how it is 'massive' to miss out on it. BGS (I think) posted the other day that the difference between being knocked out of the CL in the first knockout round and making it to the final of the EL is about 10mil difference only. Hardly significant to a club with over 300mil a year in annual turnover. In fact, I read that ManU had made more in the EL this year than they did in their last CL year. Player recruitment? Well, recent history suggests that is also not true. Both Chelsea and ManU were able to recruit experienced world class players without CL football. Sponsorship deals that reduce their financial commitment if we aren't in it? Possible but I have yet to hear that this is true. Increased wages in order to attract players because you don't have CL football. Again, possible, but I'm dubious that agents would use that as leverage.

Prestige? Yes, I suppose so. But does 21 in 21 sound miles more prestigious than 20 in 21? I don't think so.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

We can't win the CL whils Wenger is here because we can't win it in the next 2 years anyway, it takes a bit of time to build a team like that.

My concern is that we cannot win the CL and probably not the premier league whilst Kronke is here, and he ain't going nowhere.

[Monty92]

Yes, that's right. My indifference to the CL is in part based on my view that as long as Wenger is our manager we have no chance of winning it.

Also, on a practical level I fail to see how it is 'massive' to miss out on it. BGS (I think) posted the other day that the difference between being knocked out of the CL in the first knockout round and making it to the final of the EL is about 10mil difference only. Hardly significant to a club with over 300mil a year in annual turnover. In fact, I read that ManU had made more in the EL this year than they did in their last CL year. Player recruitment? Well, recent history suggests that is also not true. Both Chelsea and ManU were able to recruit experienced world class players without CL football. Sponsorship deals that reduce their financial commitment if we aren't in it? Possible but I have yet to hear that this is true. Increased wages in order to attract players because you don't have CL football. Again, possible, but I'm dubious that agents would use that as leverage.

Prestige? Yes, I suppose so. But does 21 in 21 sound miles more prestigious than 20 in 21? I don't think so.

All of that may well be true (although I don't think we would be able to attract a Paul Pogba-esque signing while not in the CL) but it still doesn't logically follow that you wouldn't care whether or not we qualify. Somewhat underwhelmed by the prospect, of course, but to be entirely agnostic is a bit weird.

[redgunamo]

All of that may well be true (although I don't think we would be able to attract a Paul Pogba-esque signing while not in the CL) but it still doesn't logically follow that you wouldn't care whether or not we qualify. Somewhat underwhelmed by the prospect, of course, but to be entirely agnostic is a bit weird.

Not being in Europe at all might do it though? No big money signings, just concentrate on doing what we do but doing it more and better.

Wenger often says Himself that we worry too much about new players, when really what counts is playing good football, and winning games with the players you have.

[World's End Stella]

All of that may well be true (although I don't think we would be able to attract a Paul Pogba-esque signing while not in the CL) but it still doesn't logically follow that you wouldn't care whether or not we qualify. Somewhat underwhelmed by the prospect, of course, but to be entirely agnostic is a bit weird.

Would you rather make the CL and get knocked out in the first knockout round or win the EL? What do you think the odds of those two occurrences are? I would think the odds for the former are very strong and that we would be favourites to win the EL.

We are in no position to denigrate Thu football imo. Only a self-entitled muppet would do that. :-)

[redgunamo]

We can't win the CL whils Wenger is here because we can't win it in the next 2 years anyway, it takes a bit of time to build a team like that.

My concern is that we cannot win the CL and probably not the premier league whilst Kronke is here, and he ain't going nowhere.

On the other hand, we could just get good. And lucky.

[redgunamo]

Yes, that's right. My indifference to the CL is in part based on my view that as long as Wenger is our manager we have no chance of winning it.

Also, on a practical level I fail to see how it is 'massive' to miss out on it. BGS (I think) posted the other day that the difference between being knocked out of the CL in the first knockout round and making it to the final of the EL is about 10mil difference only. Hardly significant to a club with over 300mil a year in annual turnover. In fact, I read that ManU had made more in the EL this year than they did in their last CL year. Player recruitment? Well, recent history suggests that is also not true. Both Chelsea and ManU were able to recruit experienced world class players without CL football. Sponsorship deals that reduce their financial commitment if we aren't in it? Possible but I have yet to hear that this is true. Increased wages in order to attract players because you don't have CL football. Again, possible, but I'm dubious that agents would use that as leverage.

Prestige? Yes, I suppose so. But does 21 in 21 sound miles more prestigious than 20 in 21? I don't think so.

Or to put it another way, all the clubs that have actually won the Champions League have spent fewer consecutive seasons in it than we, who haven't, have*. Except possibly Real Madrid.

And possibly our best chance of winning the Premier League would be to sack off the European Cup altogether.


*If you follow me :-\

[Monty92]

Would you rather make the CL and get knocked out in the first knockout round or win the EL? What do you think the odds of those two occurrences are? I would think the odds for the former are very strong and that we would be favourites to win the EL.

We are in no position to denigrate Thu football imo. Only a self-entitled muppet would do that. :-)

Bored now.

[Pokster]

Yes, that's right. My indifference to the CL is in part based on my view that as long as Wenger is our manager we have no chance of winning it..

You have a better chance of winning it by being in it imho