Open-topped bus parade on the 28th :cloud9:

[redgunamo]

Where though.

[Sir C]

Where though.

Kings Road and Cheyne Walk.

[redgunamo]

Kings Road and Cheyne Walk.

Very nice :-(

[Yesterday Once More]

Surely there must be a 5th place trophy we can parade?

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

Where though.

City of London bus tours?

[Rich]

Where though.

I see LK said said he'd rather win the 4th place trophy than the FA Cup. Sky will be sharpening their knives ready to discuss it tonight.

Silverware is why we all played football blah blah blah. Bore off.

[Ash]

I see LK said said he'd rather win the 4th place trophy than the FA Cup. Sky will be sharpening their knives ready to discuss it tonight.

Silverware is why we all played football blah blah blah. Bore off.

The irony being that Sky can't be bothered with the FA Cup either.

[redgunamo]

I see LK said said he'd rather win the 4th place trophy than the FA Cup. Sky will be sharpening their knives ready to discuss it tonight.

Silverware is why we all played football blah blah blah. Bore off.

Sky can say what they want, I think, for the money they pay.

Our captain is perfectly correct though, even if only because the fourth-place trophy will be decided before the FA Cup final.

[World's End Stella]

Sky can say what they want, I think, for the money they pay.

Our captain is perfectly correct though, even if only because the fourth-place trophy will be decided before the FA Cup final.

You on the gear, red? The FA Cup is always more important than some quasi 4th place trophy nonsense.

Always.

[redgunamo]

You on the gear, red? The FA Cup is always more important than some quasi 4th place trophy nonsense.

Always.

I mean, we are still on course to win both.

[Sir C]

You on the gear, red? The FA Cup is always more important than some quasi 4th place trophy nonsense.

Always.

Might I make so bold as to clarify something?

The 'fourth place trophy' idea with which so many like to bash our greatest ever manager stems from a perfectly reasonable comment. He said that fourth place was 'like a trophy', which, indeed, it is, since every club achieving CL qualification celebrates it as a success.

'Like a trophy'. Not, 'is a trophy'. 'Like a trophy.'

It takes either an incredibly lazy, or incredibly vindictive mindset to continually beat Arsene around the head by warping a perfectly reasonable comment.

Carry on.

[World's End Stella]

I mean, we are still on course to win both.

Ah, I see. Lord knows how I was meant to understand that given what you posted, but then again if we understood you, you would lose some of your charm, red. :-)

[redgunamo]

Might I make so bold as to clarify something?

The 'fourth place trophy' idea with which so many like to bash our greatest ever manager stems from a perfectly reasonable comment. He said that fourth place was 'like a trophy', which, indeed, it is, since every club achieving CL qualification celebrates it as a success.

'Like a trophy'. Not, 'is a trophy'. 'Like a trophy.'

It takes either an incredibly lazy, or incredibly vindictive mindset to continually beat Arsene around the head by warping a perfectly reasonable comment.

Carry on.

Footballistically, it's *******s though. I'm convinced He wishes He'd never said it, especially in front of the men.

[Monty92]

You on the gear, red? The FA Cup is always more important than some quasi 4th place trophy nonsense.

Always.

Would you feel the same if you discovered that Sanchez would only stay if we qualified for the CL?

[Sir C]

Footballistically, it's *******s though. I'm convinced He wishes He'd never said it, especially in front of the men.

No it's not. It's an absolutely valid point.

[World's End Stella]

Might I make so bold as to clarify something?

The 'fourth place trophy' idea with which so many like to bash our greatest ever manager stems from a perfectly reasonable comment. He said that fourth place was 'like a trophy', which, indeed, it is, since every club achieving CL qualification celebrates it as a success.

'Like a trophy'. Not, 'is a trophy'. 'Like a trophy.'

It takes either an incredibly lazy, or incredibly vindictive mindset to continually beat Arsene around the head by warping a perfectly reasonable comment.

Carry on.

Certainly you can clarify it, and you have every right to hold that view, of course.

And others have every right to disagree. And those who disagree would argue that it is nothing like a trophy at all and shouldn't in any way be celebrated as such. I would be one of those people and my view has nothing to do with my attitude towards Wenger, it has everything to do with much of what I consider to be wrong about modern day football.

Avoiding relegation is celebrated as a success as well. Is that like a trophy? I think not.

[Monty92]

Footballistically, it's *******s though. I'm convinced He wishes He'd never said it, especially in front of the men.

He's repeated it since

[World's End Stella]

Would you feel the same if you discovered that Sanchez would only stay if we qualified for the CL?

Yes, absolutely.

BTW, Sanchez will stay if we pay him what he wants regardless of CL football. Which is just another reason that the 'like a trophy' theory is nonsense.

[redgunamo]

He's repeated it since

Sure. Having said it once, He's committed to it. Even more so with the way things have gone.

[Monty92]

Certainly you can clarify it, and you have every right to hold that view, of course.

And others have every right to disagree. And those who disagree would argue that it is nothing like a trophy at all and shouldn't in any way be celebrated as such. I would be one of those people and my view has nothing to do with my attitude towards Wenger, it has everything to do with much of what I consider to be wrong about modern day football.

Avoiding relegation is celebrated as a success as well. Is that like a trophy? I think not.

If, on Sunday (having won tonight), we find ourselves ahead against Everton and in the last moments news filters through that Boro have scored an unlikely equaliser at Anfield, how would you describe the ensuing scenes you may be likely to witness around The Emirates?

[Sir C]

Certainly you can clarify it, and you have every right to hold that view, of course.

And others have every right to disagree. And those who disagree would argue that it is nothing like a trophy at all and shouldn't in any way be celebrated as such. I would be one of those people and my view has nothing to do with my attitude towards Wenger, it has everything to do with much of what I consider to be wrong about modern day football.

Avoiding relegation is celebrated as a success as well. Is that like a trophy? I think not.

The problem with your argument here isn't so much that it's bóllocks, although clearly it is, it's that you don't believe it for a second.

[Monty92]

Yes, absolutely.

BTW, Sanchez will stay if we pay him what he wants regardless of CL football. Which is just another reason that the 'like a trophy' theory is nonsense.

Fair enough, I entirely sympathise with your point of view (genuinely). Personally I would favour us remaining in the CL, not because it's "like a trophy", but as a means to an end. That is, I think we have a better chance of winning meaningful trophies in the future by remaining a CL club than by winning the occasional FA Cup.

[redgunamo]

The problem with your argument here isn't so much that it's bóllocks, although clearly it is, it's that you don't believe it for a second.

There's not allowed to be losers anymore; everyone has to get a prize or they'll blub

:-( #snowflakes

[redgunamo]

Fair enough, I entirely sympathise with your point of view (genuinely). Personally I would favour us remaining in the CL, not because it's "like a trophy", but as a means to an end. That is, I think we have a better chance of winning meaningful trophies in the future by remaining a CL club than by winning the occasional FA Cup.

But do you accept that it may also be possible, maybe even more likely, for us to win meaningful silverware without Champions League football?

[Monty92]

But do you accept that it may also be possible, maybe even more likely, for us to win meaningful silverware without Champions League football?

As oppose to while competing in that famously easy-on-the-legs competition, the Waffer Cup?

[Pokster]

Would you feel the same if you discovered that Sanchez would only stay if we qualified for the CL?

You seem to forget that WES knows **** all about football... just ignore him

[redgunamo]

As oppose to while competing in that famously easy-on-the-legs competition, the Waffer Cup?

No trophy is easy*, everyone knows that. Maybe we need to return to this after Manchester United win it :-\


*Your mum.

[Ash]

As oppose to while competing in that famously easy-on-the-legs competition, the Waffer Cup?

Which is both literally a trophy and gets you a CL slot. Almost like two trophies, in fact.

[Luis Anaconda]

Avoiding relegation is celebrated as a success as well. Is that like a trophy? I think not.

Actually - it is like a trophy, hence that is why it is celebrated in such a way and I am sure it has been referred to as such as. Like here

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/sunderland-afc/staying-up-will-be-like-winning-a-trophy-says-sunderland-boss-poyet-1-6600361

[Luis Anaconda]

Which is both literally a trophy and gets you a CL slot. Almost like two trophies, in fact.

:hehe: wd ash

[World's End Stella]

If, on Sunday (having won tonight), we find ourselves ahead against Everton and in the last moments news filters through that Boro have scored an unlikely equaliser at Anfield, how would you describe the ensuing scenes you may be likely to witness around The Emirates?

I would expect a fairly subdued celebration amongst a crowd struggling to fill the stadium.

They're bored with this game, you see.

[Ash]

Fair enough, I entirely sympathise with your point of view (genuinely). Personally I would favour us remaining in the CL, not because it's "like a trophy", but as a means to an end. That is, I think we have a better chance of winning meaningful trophies in the future by remaining a CL club than by winning the occasional FA Cup.

Three FA Cups in four years, which is what we are talking about here is not an "occasional FA Cup".

Also, if Arsene could win 7 FA Cups, that will probably never be bettered.

[World's End Stella]

Actually - it is like a trophy, hence that is why it is celebrated in such a way and I am sure it has been referred to as such as. Like here

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/sunderland-afc/staying-up-will-be-like-winning-a-trophy-says-sunderland-boss-poyet-1-6600361

Well that's Gustavo's view and he's entitled to hold it. I rather disagree.

Staying up being like a trophy is what clubs like Sunderland think. We - however - are the Arsenal.

[redgunamo]

Which is both literally a trophy and gets you a CL slot. Almost like two trophies, in fact.

And it also spares you having embarrassing scenes of jubilation, involving your hundert million pound world record signing dancing on the pitch because you've scraped fourth place, beamed around the world #fergieknows :-|

[Pokster]

Well that's Gustavo's view and he's entitled to hold it. I rather disagree.

Staying up being like a trophy is what clubs like Sunderland think. We - however - are the Arsenal.

Seems strange then that Liverpool and Man City are both celbrating every victory like it is a cup final.. almost as if they think being in the CL is bloody important

[Monty92]

Three FA Cups in four years, which is what we are talking about here is not an "occasional FA Cup".

Also, if Arsene could win 7 FA Cups, that will probably never be bettered.

I will be very happy indeed if we win the FA Cup and my hypothetical preference for Top Four is with a heavy heart, since it cannot compete with the satisfaction of seeing your team win silverware.

[Luis Anaconda]

Well that's Gustavo's view and he's entitled to hold it. I rather disagree.

Staying up being like a trophy is what clubs like Sunderland think. We - however - are a certain section of Arsenal fans, whose sense of entitlement is way out of control.
There fixed that for you :)

[World's End Stella]

There fixed that for you :)

I would :rolleyes: you if I didn't find that so :hehe:

[redgunamo]

Seems strange then that Liverpool and Man City are both celbrating every victory like it is a cup final.. almost as if they think being in the CL is bloody important

Both those clubs have reason to be more sanguine about their future in that competition, should they qualify, than we do though. The European Cup has been most kind to Liverpool down the years and Manchester City are now armed with the "best manager in the world" who in turn will be armed with all the money in the world and perhaps also Lionel Messi too. Neither outfit will be looking at the thing as merely a money-making jaunt or as a prelude to a tonking from Bayern München in the knockout rounds.

[World's End Stella]

There fixed that for you :)

BTW, now that I've stopped laughing, I'm loving the idea that supporters of one of the ten richest clubs in the world who don't consider avoiding relegation to be trophy have a sense of entitlement that is way out of control.

That is some seriously top class lunacy/drunkenness right there. :clap:

[Yesterday Once More]

Might I make so bold as to clarify something?

The 'fourth place trophy' idea with which so many like to bash our greatest ever manager stems from a perfectly reasonable comment. He said that fourth place was 'like a trophy', which, indeed, it is, since every club achieving CL qualification celebrates it as a success.

'Like a trophy'. Not, 'is a trophy'. 'Like a trophy.'

It takes either an incredibly lazy, or incredibly vindictive mindset to continually beat Arsene around the head by warping a perfectly reasonable comment.

Carry on.

*******s. No top club or manager with ambition celebrates fourth place like a trophy. They may even miss out on it once in a blue moon (Chelsea last year) but if they limp in fourth they never celebrate "like a trophy".

It says everything about the standards Wenger is allowed to get away with and his lack of ambition for our club.

[Luis Anaconda]

BTW, now that I've stopped laughing, I'm loving the idea that supporters of one of the ten richest clubs in the world who don't consider avoiding relegation to be trophy have a sense of entitlement that is way out of control.

That is some seriously top class lunacy/drunkenness right there. :clap:
I'm not sure you understood the point. Obviously not a trophy for us - for other clubs. I was merely expressing the idea that "like a trophy" can mean different things to different teams. Therefore is isn't wrong to say that a top four place is "like a trophy". Every team has different standards of course. If you were in the North Bank in 1996 when Dennis scored against Bolton to secure us fifth place (at Spurs's expense obviously). Probably a better remembered moment than a couple of our cup wins to be honest.

Interesting that you always have to bring everything down to money though. Just because you happen to support a club that has a lot, why do you feel that entitles you to anything? Not like you contribute anything to that wealth these days

[Sir C]

*******s. No top club or manager with ambition celebrates fourth place like a trophy. They may even miss out on it once in a blue moon (Chelsea last year) but if they limp in fourth they never celebrate "like a trophy".

It says everything about the standards Wenger is allowed to get away with and his lack of ambition for our club.

There is no need for foul language. I recommend that you attempt to expand your vocabulary so that you can express yourself without resorting to vulgarity.

[Luis Anaconda]

*******s. No top club or manager with ambition celebrates fourth place like a trophy. They may even miss out on it once in a blue moon (Chelsea last year) but if they limp in fourth they never celebrate "like a trophy".

It says everything about the standards Wenger is allowed to get away with and his lack of ambition for our club.

oh do piss off you tedious **** - of course they all celebrate. Not like winning the league but, you know they celebrate, finishing high enough to qualify for the biggest club competition in the world. It's what we do, it's what they do

[Sir C]

oh do piss off you tedious **** - of course they all celebrate. Not like winning the league but, you know they celebrate, finishing high enough to qualify for the biggest club competition in the world. It's what we do, it's what they do

I'm a ssuming that was 'tedious twát', because of the pleasing alliteration?

[Ash]

BTW, now that I've stopped laughing, I'm loving the idea that supporters of one of the ten richest clubs in the world who don't consider avoiding relegation to be trophy have a sense of entitlement that is way out of control.

That is some seriously top class lunacy/drunkenness right there. :clap:

The word you are missing there is 'like', WES. It is a simile. It means that there are shared characteristics, not that it is the same thing. A goal to aim at as a sports club that has great rewards attached. Anyway, didn't Pep recently say something about top four being like a trophy? What does he know about success?

[World's End Stella]

I'm not sure you understood the point. Obviously not a trophy for us - for other clubs. I was merely expressing the idea that "like a trophy" can mean different things to different teams. Therefore is isn't wrong to say that a top four place is "like a trophy". Every team has different standards of course. If you were in the North Bank in 1996 when Dennis scored against Bolton to secure us fifth place (at Spurs's expense obviously). Probably a better remembered moment than a couple of our cup wins to be honest.

Interesting that you always have to bring everything down to money though. Just because you happen to support a club that has a lot, why do you feel that entitles you to anything? Not like you contribute anything to that wealth these days

Yes, you're right, I didn't understand your point. Mostly because you didn't do a very good job of making it. :-)

And I don't think it is a question of entitlement, certainly not in my case, anyway. It is simply basic logic. Money is not the only contributing factor to a team's success (I have made this point many times), but it is an important one. It is therefore logical to make the point that a very rich club, which we clearly are, should not consider avoiding relegation to be an achievement. In fact, in your clarification you make that point as well. Which brings us back to top four not being a trophy which - again - has nothing to do with money, I am simply distinguishing between winning a trophy and accomplishing something which is good for the club. I see a very clear line between those two things.

And now that we're back there, I have no idea how we got here and now intend to have a lay down and forget the whole thing.

[redgunamo]

The word you are missing there is 'like', WES. It is a simile. It means that there are shared characteristics, not that it is the same thing. A goal to aim at as a sports club that has great rewards attached. Anyway, didn't Pep recently say something about top four being like a trophy? What does he know about success?

Yes, he also said that this season would've got him the sack at either of his previous clubs. But what do they know about trophies. Proper ones, I mean.

Of course it's better for us to win matches and finish as high as we can but the word "trophy" was a poor choice. In our game, as even M has just pointed out, nothing is like a trophy.

[World's End Stella]

In our game, as even M has just pointed out, nothing is like a trophy.

:nod: Quite right. Amazing how much grief a chap can get from other Arsenal supporters for saying such a thing.

The power of Wenger, I suppose.

[redgunamo]

I'm not sure you understood the point. Obviously not a trophy for us - for other clubs. I was merely expressing the idea that "like a trophy" can mean different things to different teams. Therefore is isn't wrong to say that a top four place is "like a trophy". Every team has different standards of course. If you were in the North Bank in 1996 when Dennis scored against Bolton to secure us fifth place (at Spurs's expense obviously). Probably a better remembered moment than a couple of our cup wins to be honest.

Interesting that you always have to bring everything down to money though. Just because you happen to support a club that has a lot, why do you feel that entitles you to anything? Not like you contribute anything to that wealth these days

I agree, what Wenger said wasn't wrong; He was simply wrong to be caught saying it :shrug:

Anyway it was Veng Himself that started banging on about money, not us. It's not entitlement, it's merely supporting the club's broad and general plans and schemes.

[redgunamo]

No it's not. It's an absolutely valid point.

Yes, of course it's a valid point. Wenger was simply wrong to make it, that's all.

It gave people the wrong idea and accomplished nothing except, as you say, giving people like me a stick with which to beat Him. Most importantly though, I'd be prepared to argue it poisoned the players too, both ones we have and ones we don't. Especially when taken in conjunction with the "financial doping" comments. After all, who doesn't want to be financially doped? I know I do :shrug:

The message was understood as, If you want to win the league or the European Cup and make loads more money, then do not join the Arsenal.