So Wenger says that we were 'very, very close' to signing Mbappe. Isn't it annoying

[Rich]

how often we are really close to getting players but never close the deal.

Off the top of my head I can think of Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, Kluivert, Mpabble, Cech (before he went to Chelsea).

If we're going to give Him a Director Of Football then perhaps we can perform better in the recruitment department.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

It's simply not true. You either sign a player or you don't, closeness doesn't come into it.

[Rich]

It's simply not true. You either sign a player or you don't, closeness doesn't come into it.

Are you calling Him a liar?

http://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/arsene-wenger-reveals-arsenal-were-very-very-close-to-kylian-mbappe-deal-as-he-continues-hunt-for-a3529926.html

[Mo Britain less Europe]

I am calling him a fantasist. Higuain's another one we nearly signed, he's just won the semi-final for Juventus.

[Tony C]

Someone needs shooting for what happened that summer.

lost both Higuain and Suarez that summer because someone thought it would be anything to big £40m +£1

[SWv2]

how often we are really close to getting players but never close the deal.

Off the top of my head I can think of Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, Kluivert, Mpabble, Cech (before he went to Chelsea).

If we're going to give Him a Director Of Football then perhaps we can perform better in the recruitment department.

To be fair Richard I think you will find most clubs could run off such a list and I think you have only just scratched the surface there with those names listed.

The issue may be that Wenger does seem to go public on such nearly incidents, or perhaps we only notice his stories as would be less inclined to read stories relevant to other teams.

This morning's Mbappe story merely made me chuckle.

[Rich]

To be fair Richard I think you will find most clubs could run off such a list and I think you have only just scratched the surface there with those names listed.

The issue may be that Wenger does seem to go public on such nearly incidents, or perhaps we only notice his stories as would be less inclined to read stories relevant to other teams.

This morning's Mbappe story merely made me chuckle.

Well Pires says that he will be surprised if he doesn't come to Arsenal this summer. So hopefully he's right as Mbappe is better than Giroud.

[Sir C]

Well Pires says that he will be surprised if he doesn't come to Arsenal this summer. So hopefully he's right as Mbappe is better than Giroud.

I answered your Amsterdam query with some excellent information, you ungrateful bástard.

[SWv2]

Well Pires says that he will be surprised if he doesn't come to Arsenal this summer. So hopefully he's right as Mbappe is better than Giroud.

Despite my deep unwavering and unrequited love for Pires I am tempted to say he is deluded to the point of alarm.

Here we have a young player with the footballing world at his feet, probably the pick of all European clubs (if indeed he decides to leave Monaco now) to choose from coupled with an astronomical fee to pay for his services, and RP thinks he will choose to come to a club which appears to be heading up a blind alley with no actual idea where it is going to go.

I don’t work in football, but I can see a flaw.

Perhaps this is 1983 and Charlie Nicholas again for the Sky generation.

[Pokster]

Despite my deep unwavering and unrequited love for Pires I am tempted to say he is deluded to the point of alarm.

Here we have a young player with the footballing world at his feet, probably the pick of all European clubs (if indeed he decides to leave Monaco now) to choose from coupled with an astronomical fee to pay for his services, and RP thinks he will choose to come to a club which appears to be heading up a blind alley with no actual idea where it is going to go.

I don’t work in football, but I can see a flaw.

Perhaps this is 1983 and Charlie Nicholas again for the Sky generation.

I agree with you.... in effect it might make us focus on young players who haven't yet made it and have a bit of a punt on them... of course it all depends on who is the manager. I'm not expecting much for the next 2 or 3 seasons

[Peter]

To be fair Richard I think you will find most clubs could run off such a list and I think you have only just scratched the surface there with those names listed.

The issue may be that Wenger does seem to go public on such nearly incidents, or perhaps we only notice his stories as would be less inclined to read stories relevant to other teams.

This morning's Mbappe story merely made me chuckle.

We can also comfort ourselves in the knowledge that if we had signed them, Wenger would have ruined them. Mbappe would currently be on loan at West Brom, warming the bench. Or injured.

[SWv2]

I agree with you.... in effect it might make us focus on young players who haven't yet made it and have a bit of a punt on them... of course it all depends on who is the manager. I'm not expecting much for the next 2 or 3 seasons

Quite exciting all the same.

Let's be honest our groundhog day seasons have become as boring as fúck.

[Peter]

Quite exciting all the same.

Let's be honest our groundhog day seasons have become as boring as fúck.

You think Wenger is going to leave?

[SWv2]

You think Wenger is going to leave?

No, but even the new experience of EL football instead of simply making up the numbers in the CL is different.

I also think there is a reasonable chance that given likely player departures coupled with very likely aggressive strengthening by most of our peers that next season could be more challenging than normal/recent.

That is exciting. I embrace change, you don't.

I believe the correct term is "simples" though I am not 100% certain.

[Pokster]

No, but even the new experience of EL football instead of simply making up the numbers in the CL is different.

I also think there is a reasonable chance that given likely player departures coupled with very likely aggressive strengthening by most of our peers that next season could be more challenging than normal/recent.

That is exciting. I embrace change, you don't.

I believe the correct term is "simples" though I am not 100% certain.

We will have to target different players (perhaps younger and less established) and will also get to play teams that we haven't seen for some time (or never played before).... Change can be good in the long run

[Peter]

No, but even the new experience of EL football instead of simply making up the numbers in the CL is different.

I also think there is a reasonable chance that given likely player departures coupled with very likely aggressive strengthening by most of our peers that next season could be more challenging than normal/recent.

That is exciting. I embrace change, you don't.

I believe the correct term is "simples" though I am not 100% certain.

Nobody is more positive about change than me. I agree, it will be nice to be officially **** for a change. Would prefer Wenger to go but I know deep down is probably isn't going to happen.

[Peter]

We will have to target different players (perhaps younger and less established) and will also get to play teams that we haven't seen for some time (or never played before).... Change can be good in the long run

This is one of my bigger concerns with our recent spending. In Mustafi and Perez we paid 50 million for two players who would have been available for next to nothing 18 months earlier. The old Wenger would not have needed to see Kante play for Leicester for a year before deciding he wants him.

He built the initial success mainly on signing players who sat outside or below the focus of the bigger clubs. We don't seem to make these types of signings now.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

This is one of my bigger concerns with our recent spending. In Mustafi and Perez we paid 50 million for two players who would have been available for next to nothing 18 months earlier. The old Wenger would not have needed to see Kante play for Leicester for a year before deciding he wants him.

He built the initial success mainly on signing players who sat outside or below the focus of the bigger clubs. We don't seem to make these types of signings now.

Yaya Sanogo?

[Rich]

I answered your Amsterdam query with some excellent information, you ungrateful bástard.

Didn't I thank you?! I thought I did - how remiss of me. Apologies.

I shall certainly pay the Dutch place you mentioned a visit. Will let you know how I get on.

[Sir C]

Didn't I thank you?! I thought I did - how remiss of me. Apologies.

I shall certainly pay the Dutch place you mentioned a visit. Will let you know how I get on.

You'll want the Suikerbrood followed by the suckling pig. No dessert, you're not a fúcking child.

[redgunamo]

This is one of my bigger concerns with our recent spending. In Mustafi and Perez we paid 50 million for two players who would have been available for next to nothing 18 months earlier. The old Wenger would not have needed to see Kante play for Leicester for a year before deciding he wants him.

He built the initial success mainly on signing players who sat outside or below the focus of the bigger clubs. We don't seem to make these types of signings now.

That's because we *are* now one of those bigger clubs.

Blame the Emirates Stadium, imo. If you suddenly start earning alot more, everything you want to buy suddenly starts costing alot more as well.

[redgunamo]

I am calling him a fantasist. Higuain's another one we nearly signed, he's just won the semi-final for Juventus.

"Fantasist" is a bit strong but I broadly agree. He knows the business better than anyone and will be fully aware that teenage starlets don't agree to sign for you just because you went round their house for tea; you have to offer them a better deal than anyone else. Business demands it.

[Just Trent]

how often we are really close to getting players but never close the deal.

Off the top of my head I can think of Ronaldo, Ibrahimovic, Kluivert, Mpabble, Cech (before he went to Chelsea).

If we're going to give Him a Director Of Football then perhaps we can perform better in the recruitment department.

Spreading more transfer bull**** than Harry Redknapp these days. "Oh, I nearly signed that player a year before any of you had ever heard of him. But, I decided to stick with Coquelin and Walcott instead"

[Peter]

That's because we *are* now one of those bigger clubs.

Blame the Emirates Stadium, imo. If you suddenly start earning alot more, everything you want to buy suddenly starts costing alot more as well.

It doesn't mean you have to start thinking like them. Spending bigger sums hasn't helped at all.

[Ash]

This is one of my bigger concerns with our recent spending. In Mustafi and Perez we paid 50 million for two players who would have been available for next to nothing 18 months earlier. The old Wenger would not have needed to see Kante play for Leicester for a year before deciding he wants him.

He built the initial success mainly on signing players who sat outside or below the focus of the bigger clubs. We don't seem to make these types of signings now.

This is all very true imo. Didn't Veng make the point about our scouting network lacking a little bit sharpness recently?

The somwhat bang-averageness of our very expensive acquisitions last summer shows that the spendsomefackinmoney calls were never really the answer.

Getsomefackingoodplayerscoachthemwellandsendthemou tknowingwhattheyaredoing would have been a more accurate slogan imo, albeit packing less precision.

17m on a forward who he thinks is a bit ****? whassatallabaht?

[Just Trent]

It doesn't mean you have to start thinking like them. Spending bigger sums hasn't helped at all.

Having finally addressed the CM and CB with significant spending, we've slid backwards at an alarming rate. Xhaka and Mustafi have struggled in a dreadfully managed setup.

[redgunamo]

It doesn't mean you have to start thinking like them. Spending bigger sums hasn't helped at all.

Of course it's helped; it's helped us spend bigger sums! It's true, you don't have to think like the bigger clubs, but equally you don't *have* to earn more money like them either. Point is though that we *want* to, that is the path we have chosen.

Wenger doesn't work for us for free and Özil doesn't play for us because he likes us; these people want paying.

[SWv2]

This is all very true imo. Didn't Veng make the point about our scouting network lacking a little bit sharpness recently?

The somwhat bang-averageness of our very expensive acquisitions last summer shows that the spendsomefackinmoney calls were never really the answer.

Getsomefackingoodplayerscoachthemwellandsendthemou tknowingwhattheyaredoing would have been a more accurate slogan imo, albeit packing less precision.

17m on a forward who he thinks is a bit ****? whassatallabaht?

A little harsh no??

I for one think both Mustafi and Xhaka are very fine footballers who are simply struggling as part of a larger broken machine.

In respect of Perez I don’t think Wenger ever wanted him but for whatever reason was forced or coerced into buying him, evidenced by the timing of the move in relation to the window and since then by his almost reluctance to play the lad ahead of others who have not performed so well when given the chance. Naturally and without apology I have absolutely nothing to base this on.
Wenger out.

[Just Trent]

17m on a forward who he thinks is a bit ****? whassatallabaht?


Perez has looked ok when he's been given a go. He makes decent runs and gets into some good goal scoring positions. A Sanchez,Welbeck,Perez front three would've been interesting imo.

[redgunamo]

This is all very true imo. Didn't Veng make the point about our scouting network lacking a little bit sharpness recently?

A certain lack of the necessary creative conflict perhaps, but we've been remarking upon that for years, you can see it for yourself on the pitch, and it is entirely a symptom of Wenger's own longevity and subsequent power over all things Arsenal; our scouts only suggest players that they *know* the manager is likely to like (in order to stay in His good books). In many cases, they do so only to discover that the manager Himself has already scouted the player and rejected him or earmarked him long before.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

Perez is a very average player. He's about 28 and has only had one decent season as a goalscorer at the top level. If we'd bought Mustafi before him he'd never have been bought. It was simply a fan-placating measure.

[Ash]

A little harsh no??

I for one think both Mustafi and Xhaka are very fine footballers who are simply struggling as part of a larger broken machine.


I wasn't ripping on the players as much as the effect they've had. Squillaci was a decent footballer when he came to us.

Of course there have been many clubs before us who have spent a lot of money on players who did little to improve their team. For years AW outperformed higher spenders. Spurs and Leicester have shown over the last couple of years that combining the right profile of players who know what they are doing can reap success on the pitch. I watched Chelsea demolish Everton and Spurs demolish us and there were two teams where the players knew what they were supposed to be doing. Ours don't seem to have a clue what they are supposed to be doing as a team, so they end up trying to do it as individuals.

[redgunamo]

I wasn't ripping on the players as much as the effect they've had. Squillaci was a decent footballer when he came to us.

Of course there have been many clubs before us who have spent a lot of money on players who did little to improve their team. For years AW outperformed higher spenders. Spurs and Leicester have shown over the last couple of years that combining the right profile of players who know what they are doing can reap success on the pitch. I watched Chelsea demolish Everton and Spurs demolish us and there were two teams where the players knew what they were supposed to be doing. Ours don't seem to have a clue what they are supposed to be doing as a team, so they end up trying to do it as individuals.

That's not some sort of glitsch in Wenger's system though; it *is* His system. Always has been, so far as I can see.

[SWv2]

I wasn't ripping on the players as much as the effect they've had. Squillaci was a decent footballer when he came to us.

Of course there have been many clubs before us who have spent a lot of money on players who did little to improve their team. For years AW outperformed higher spenders. Spurs and Leicester have shown over the last couple of years that combining the right profile of players who know what they are doing can reap success on the pitch. I watched Chelsea demolish Everton and Spurs demolish us and there were two teams where the players knew what they were supposed to be doing. Ours don't seem to have a clue what they are supposed to be doing as a team, so they end up trying to do it as individuals.

Spurs and Chelsea are two very good teams, well drilled and every player appearing to know their role within the larger unit, and this was Spurs without (imo) their most effective and best player this season in Dembele.

We of course are also a good team but increasingly the second part of my compliment above looks redundant as indeed you have said in your last sentence.

I thought Spurs were superb last Sunday and actually reminded me of our own team back over a decade ago.

[Ash]

That's not some sort of glitsch in Wenger's system though; it *is* His system. Always has been, so far as I can see.

We haven't ever been quite as disjointed and disfunctional though. In previous AW eras we've played some good football and shot ourselves in the foot with poor defending. But now we're not even playing good football.

[Peter]

Of course it's helped; it's helped us spend bigger sums! It's true, you don't have to think like the bigger clubs, but equally you don't *have* to earn more money like them either. Point is though that we *want* to, that is the path we have chosen.

Wenger doesn't work for us for free and Özil doesn't play for us because he likes us; these people want paying.

But that is earning the money, we are talking about spending it. When your manager is signing a striker that he clearly doesn't rate it suggests you have a problem.

Remember, of the four summers since we have had money to spend we had one where we didn't sign a single outfield player, another where we would have signed nobody is Ozil hadn't fallen into our lap at the last minute and then last summer where it almost happened again. We have been left short in midfield into two seasons and horribly short at centre back in another.

It hasn't been smooth sailing at all.

[redgunamo]

We haven't ever been quite as disjointed and disfunctional though. In previous AW eras we've played some good football and shot ourselves in the foot with poor defending. But now we're not even playing good football.

Perhaps I should've said it's a natural consequence of Wenger's methods and philosophy? He has always insisted His players play with a certain freedom, hasn't He.

[Ash]

Perhaps I should've said it's a natural consequence of Wenger's methods and philosophy? He has always insisted His players play with a certain freedom, hasn't He.

Yes, the jazz conductor, as I think Phillipe Auclair described it. Doesn't seem to work at the moment though, against contemporary systems of discipline and organisation.

[SWv2]

Yes, the jazz conductor, as I think Phillipe Auclair described it. Doesn't seem to work at the moment though, against contemporary systems of discipline and organisation.

Jazzer I think the term was.

[redgunamo]

Yes, the jazz conductor, as I think Phillipe Auclair described it. Doesn't seem to work at the moment though, against contemporary systems of discipline and organisation.

I suppose Antonio Conte could win the league with this team though, just as Wenger could with Chelsea's current mob. Again, normally a squad is the fruit of several (often very different footballistically) managers' work. Rarely is it put together by just one bloke over such a long period of time. It's almost against football nature.

[Ash]

I suppose Antonio Conte could win the league with this team though, just as Wenger could with Chelsea's current mob. Again, normally a squad is the fruit of several (often very different footballistically) managers' work. Rarely is it put together by just one bloke over such a long period of time. It's almost against football nature.

Poch could possibly win the league with the Arsenal squard too. I think Tim Stillman recently asked the question: "How many / which PL managers would have done a worse job with this group of players this season than AW has?"

[Burney]

Poch could possibly win the league with the Arsenal squard too. I think Tim Stillman recently asked the question: "How many / which PL managers would have done a worse job with this group of players this season than AW has?"

Sorry, but I'm not having you refer to the manager of our deadly local rivals as 'Poch'.

Straight :redcard: Off you go.

[Luis Anaconda]

Sorry, but I'm not having you refer to the manager of our deadly local rivals as 'Poch'.

Straight :redcard: Off you go.

Well done, b - firm, authoritative action. Would like to think a was already walking off the field even before the card was out

[Sir C]

Well done, b - firm, authoritative action. Would like to think a was already walking off the field even before the card was out

Agreed. Considering thew sevrity of the offence, the boy could be looking at a lengfthy ban there. :judge:

[Luis Anaconda]

But that is earning the money, we are talking about spending it. When your manager is signing a striker that he clearly doesn't rate it suggests you have a problem.

Remember, of the four summers since we have had money to spend we had one where we didn't sign a single outfield player, another where we would have signed nobody is Ozil hadn't fallen into our lap at the last minute and then last summer where it almost happened again. We have been left short in midfield into two seasons and horribly short at centre back in another.

It hasn't been smooth sailing at all.

How many games have we started with less than 11 players, p?

[redgunamo]

Poch could possibly win the league with the Arsenal squard too. I think Tim Stillman recently asked the question: "How many / which PL managers would have done a worse job with this group of players this season than AW has?"

It's a fair question, I think. There's a reason all the greyhounds in a race look the same; they're all selected by the same type of people who all have the same priorities. None of them are any good at all though, if you've got a herd of cattle that needs shifting.

We mustn't forget though that Veng was the one that paved the way for all these foreign coaches and managers and methods. Forgetting league titles for a moment (as we must, I suppose :-| ) maybe if He'd been more like a George Graham or even an Antonio Conte, none of us would've been so impressed?

[Ash]

Well done, b - firm, authoritative action. Would like to think a was already walking off the field even before the card was out

Token "I dunno how to spell his name" defence before disappearing down tunnel with head hanging down.

[redgunamo]

How many games have we started with less than 11 players, p?

https://68.media.tumblr.com/f6cda0b4277e35e12a13025859edb60c/tumblr_oophcfpmwR1uc76wxo1_500.gif

[Luis Anaconda]

Token "I dunno how to spell his name" defence before disappearing down tunnel with head hanging down.

Took me ages to remember whether it was Pochettino or Pottechino - kept getting it wrong. Son of a whore is of course the right pronunciation

[Burney]

How many games have we started with less than 11 players, p?

'Less' than 11 players, la? LESS?

I'm reaching for my top pocket again, here. :-(

[Luis Anaconda]

https://68.media.tumblr.com/f6cda0b4277e35e12a13025859edb60c/tumblr_oophcfpmwR1uc76wxo1_500.gif

An Italian team is three centre backs and who cares how many others (as long as one is the referee)

[Burney]

Token "I dunno how to spell his name" defence before disappearing down tunnel with head hanging down.

Tell it to the FA Panel, son.

[redgunamo]

'Less' than 11 players, la? LESS?

I'm reaching for my top pocket again, here. :-(

Germans, you see. They've no word for "fluffy" either #AnglerOut

[Burney]

Germans, you see. They've no word for "fluffy" either #AnglerOut

Yes. I'm starting to worry about la. Do the Germans have an equivalent phrase for 'going native'?

[Luis Anaconda]

'Less' than 11 players, la? LESS?

I'm reaching for my top pocket again, here. :-(

:shrug: It's perfectly acceptable to say that whatever the dwindling band of pedants who wish to appear clever would like to claim.

"Less has been used with countables for about a thousand years — pretty much the entire history of written English. The very notion of a neat distinction between fewer and less according to whether the noun is countable or not is a myth. It was invented out of whole cloth by an ill- informed 18th-century pedant called Robert Baker in his book Reflections on the English Language (1770). He proposed this distinction not as a hard-and-fast rule of grammar, moreover, but as a tentative suggestion with caveats (“I should think . . . it appears to me . . . ”) that you won’t find in modern style guides."

[redgunamo]

But that is earning the money, we are talking about spending it. When your manager is signing a striker that he clearly doesn't rate it suggests you have a problem.

Remember, of the four summers since we have had money to spend we had one where we didn't sign a single outfield player, another where we would have signed nobody is Ozil hadn't fallen into our lap at the last minute and then last summer where it almost happened again. We have been left short in midfield into two seasons and horribly short at centre back in another.

It hasn't been smooth sailing at all.

If you have the money, you *must* spend it. I just said :shrug:

It doesn't much matter what rubbish you spend it on, because merely spending it is "like a trophy". Wives use this reasoning while visiting manoloblahnik.com

[Luis Anaconda]

Yes. I'm starting to worry about la. Do the Germans have an equivalent phrase for 'going native'?

Yes but it takes 14 hours to write down

[IUFG]

Yes. I'm starting to worry about la. Do the Germans have an equivalent phrase for 'going native'?

:nod: Ichglaubeichbindeutschichdenkewirklichso

[Burney]

:shrug: It's perfectly acceptable to say that whatever the dwindling band of pedants who wish to appear clever would like to claim.

"Less has been used with countables for about a thousand years — pretty much the entire history of written English. The very notion of a neat distinction between fewer and less according to whether the noun is countable or not is a myth. It was invented out of whole cloth by an ill- informed 18th-century pedant called Robert Baker in his book Reflections on the English Language (1770). He proposed this distinction not as a hard-and-fast rule of grammar, moreover, but as a tentative suggestion with caveats (“I should think . . . it appears to me . . . ”) that you won’t find in modern style guides."

:-| You are dead to me, la.

And now I'm going to have to turn my back on you.

[Peter]

How many games have we started with less than 11 players, p?

Fewer, but that is not the point.

Is that really the measure of success for our transfer activity? We were able to field 11 players every week?

[Luis Anaconda]

Fewer, but that is not the point.

Is that really the measure of success for our transfer activity? We were able to field 11 players every week?

See my reply to Berni on the former point.

On the latter, I assume that is a major purpose of the squad - you were speaking numerically by saying we were short, which isn't true :shrug:

[redgunamo]

An Italian team is three centre backs and who cares how many others (as long as one is the referee)

Right. And in Catalonia, the referee tends to occupy the midfield ball-winner role.

[Burney]

See my reply to Berni on the former point.

On the latter, I assume that is a major purpose of the squad - you were speaking numerically by saying we were short, which isn't true :shrug:

Even if it weren't wrong (which it definitely is), it would still be ugly. 'Less people'? Fûck off imo.

[Sir C]

:shrug: It's perfectly acceptable to say that whatever the dwindling band of pedants who wish to appear clever would like to claim.

"Less has been used with countables for about a thousand years — pretty much the entire history of written English. The very notion of a neat distinction between fewer and less according to whether the noun is countable or not is a myth. It was invented out of whole cloth by an ill- informed 18th-century pedant called Robert Baker in his book Reflections on the English Language (1770). He proposed this distinction not as a hard-and-fast rule of grammar, moreover, but as a tentative suggestion with caveats (“I should think . . . it appears to me . . . ”) that you won’t find in modern style guides."

How about plurals taking apostrophes? Is that acceptable in your Neuesweltordnung, la?

Don't think I'll forget. I'll never forget what you have done.

[Sir C]

If you have the money, you *must* spend it. I just said :shrug:

It doesn't much matter what rubbish you spend it on, because merely spending it is "like a trophy". Wives use this reasoning while visiting manoloblahnik.com

Point of order; wives are different in this matter. The money must be spent whether you have it or not.

[redgunamo]

Point of order; wives are different in this matter. The money must be spent whether you have it or not.

No different to football supporters, imo.

[Peter]

See my reply to Berni on the former point.

On the latter, I assume that is a major purpose of the squad - you were speaking numerically by saying we were short, which isn't true :shrug:

I will accept your pedantry on point 2 if you accept mine on point 1. Sound fair?