Farage just told the EU Parliament they were behaving like the mafia

[Yesterday Once More]

The President (who happens to be Italian) intervened to suggest that the language wasn't appropriate, so Nigel said "I appreciate there are certain national sensitivities......ok then, you're gangsters"

[Luis Anaconda]

The President (who happens to be Italian) suggested that the language wasn't appropriate, so Nigel said "Okay, I appreciate there are certain national sensitivities......ok then, you're gangsters"

Gosh what a wit - you must still be chuckling about. ****

[Sir C]

The President (who happens to be Italian) suggested that the language wasn't appropriate, so Nigel said "Okay, I appreciate there are certain national sensitivities......ok then, you're gangsters"

Clearly a graduate of the Ken Livingstone school of diplomacy.

Whatever happened to statesmen? Great, dignified orators, like Walpole, Pitt, Churchill and Hague?

All gone, alas, replaced by minnows.

[Burney]

Clearly a graduate of the Ken Livingstone school of diplomacy.

Whatever happened to statesmen? Great, dignified orators, like Walpole, Pitt, Churchill and Hague?

All gone, alas, replaced by minnows.

I do wish that Farage would understand that he has now served his purpose and we'd all be rather grateful if he fûcked off and left things to the grown-ups.

[Sir C]

I do wish that Farage would understand that he has now served his purpose and we'd all be rather grateful if he fûcked off and left things to the grown-ups.

He's such a vulgar little man, isn't he? Mind you, he sports quite the pair of brass balls.

As you say, enough now.

[Burney]

He's such a vulgar little man, isn't he? Mind you, he sports quite the pair of brass balls.

As you say, enough now.

He should have been made a peer and packed off to the House of Lords where he can do no damage.

[Pokster]

The President (who happens to be Italian) intervened to suggest that the language wasn't appropriate, so Nigel said "I appreciate there are certain national sensitivities......ok then, you're gangsters"

Bit like Dennis Skinner saying half the tory party were corrupt... he was told that wasn't acceptable. So changed it to half the tory part aren't corrupt

[redgunamo]

I do wish that Farage would understand that he has now served his purpose and we'd all be rather grateful if he fûcked off and left things to the grown-ups.

In the EU parliament, he *is* the grown-up though. The French guillotined all theirs ages ago and the Germans have, reasonably enough, I guess, been completely ignoring theirs since World War 2.

[Burney]

In the EU parliament, he *is* the grown-up though. The French guillotined all theirs ages ago and the Germans have, reasonably enough, I guess, been completely ignoring theirs since World War 2.

Yes, but we voted to leave the EU in part because the EU Parliament is a meaningless and ineffectual rubber stamp/talking shop fit only for worthless posturing by gravy-trainers, so it seems odd for him to keep standing there, getting paid by our taxes to mouth off to no good effect. Just do the morally consistent thing and walk away from the bloody shambles.

[redgunamo]

Yes, but we voted to leave the EU in part because the EU Parliament is a meaningless and ineffectual rubber stamp/talking shop fit only for worthless posturing by gravy-trainers, so it seems odd for him to keep standing there, getting paid by our taxes to mouth off to no good effect. Just do the morally consistent thing and walk away from the bloody shambles.

That would be rather premature, wouldn't it. Swathes of Britain "remain" besotted by the EU, by which they think they mean Europe, of course.

This battle, within a wider war, is far from won.

[Burney]

That would be rather premature, wouldn't it. Swathes of Britain "remain" besotted by the EU, by which they think they mean Europe, of course.

This battle, within a wider war, is far from won.

They aren't really, though. Before the whole referendum thing came along, you'd have struggled to find anyone in public life prepared to enthuse about the EU. What they actually don't like is change and not getting their way. It's a bit different to actually liking the EU.

[redgunamo]

They aren't really, though. Before the whole referendum thing came along, you'd have struggled to find anyone in public life prepared to enthuse about the EU. What they actually don't like is change and not getting their way. It's a bit different to actually liking the EU.

No real need to back then, was there. The whole thing was a done deal and what would ordinary people want to know or care about it anyway, so long as they could travel unhindered to Positano or Puerto Banús.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

Oh dear. Have you all turned into sophisticated "liberal" Guardian readers overnight?

[Burney]

Oh dear. Have you all turned into sophisticated "liberal" Guardian readers overnight?

Not at all. However, Farage is yesterday's man. His usefulness ceased when we got the referendum. He is an obsolete hindrance now.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

Nonsense. He talks more sense than practically anyone in UK politics. It is Britain's loss if they don't want to find an outlet for his talents.

[Burney]

Nonsense. He talks more sense than practically anyone in UK politics. It is Britain's loss if they don't want to find an outlet for his talents.

His talent was for amiable, relatively unthreatening rabble-rousing while giving a vaguely acceptable face to UKIP that allowed it to garner enough support to threaten the tories into allowing a referendum. For that I give him credit and thanks.

However, polls consistently showed that for years as support for UKIP has gone up, support for leaving the EU across the country went down because a lot of people who didn't like the EU equally didn't want to be associated with UKIP. This is why Leave.EU getting the official designation in the referendum would have been a disaster and would almost certainly have meant it being lost. And now, as we leave the EU, he is a fairly toxic presence.

[redgunamo]

Not at all. However, Farage is yesterday's man. His usefulness ceased when we got the referendum. He is an obsolete hindrance now.

Somebody's got to keep all that resentment out in the open, imo. As you suggest, for years, silence conveying approval and acceptance proved a useful tactic in the face of real, latent distrust and distaste.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

You really do sound like one of those leftie twitterati there. Farage says it as he sees it. In difficult times this is a very useful talent which should be encouraged. IF Carrington had not been as elegant in his turn of phrase as some of the non-toxic people you are thinking of, there would never have been a Falklands Wr.

We gain nothing by empty politesse which ends up sending the wrong signals. I would have Farage as our Brexit negotiator because frankly what we need is to finsih those talks as soon as they start and get on with the real work of negotiating trade deals with the rest of the world.

[Burney]

Somebody's got to keep all that resentment out in the open, imo. As you suggest, for years, silence conveying approval and acceptance proved a useful tactic in the face of real, latent distrust and distaste.

Oh, I think that genie's well and truly out of the bottle. Nobody feels shy talking about how much we hate the EU anymore. The days when we could be cowed by being called swivel-eyed loons and closet racists are long gone.

We're mainstream, baby.

[Burney]

You really do sound like one of those leftie twitterati there. Farage says it as he sees it. In difficult times this is a very useful talent which should be encouraged. IF Carrington had not been as elegant in his turn of phrase as some of the non-toxic people you are thinking of, there would never have been a Falklands Wr.

We gain nothing by empty politesse which ends up sending the wrong signals. I would have Farage as our Brexit negotiator because frankly what we need is to finsih those talks as soon as they start and get on with the real work of negotiating trade deals with the rest of the world.

There is a larger diplomatic picture, though, which involves not being seen as the sort of people who tear up long-standing international agreements without observing certain niceties. Everyone knows we're not going to achieve a meaningful trade deal with the EU in the foreseeable future (not least because they've never managed to agree one in their history), but we do have to do the little dance that means we aren't seen as being untrustworthy vandals. Farage would be wholly unsuited to that - not least because he isn't terribly bright.

[redgunamo]

Oh, I think that genie's well and truly out of the bottle. Nobody feels shy talking about how much we hate the EU anymore. The days when we could be cowed by being called swivel-eyed loons and closet racists are long gone.

We're mainstream, baby.

Yes, it's been a decent start but, as your mum says, it's important to keep it up.

[Ash]

Oh, I think that genie's well and truly out of the bottle. Nobody feels shy talking about how much we hate the EU anymore. The days when we could be cowed by being called swivel-eyed loons and closet racists are long gone.

We're mainstream, baby.

Not on my facebook timeline. :-|

Or in the office in which I work. :-\

Or amongst almost everybody I know. :-(

[Burney]

Not on my facebook timeline. :-|

Or in the office in which I work. :-\

Or amongst almost everybody I know. :-(

You live in that London, a. You are in the belly of the liberal metropolitan beast. Venture past the M25, however, and a different story will emerge - as these chaps are discovering :hehe:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/04/comedians-tell-anti-brexit-jokes-damaging-careersas-audiences/

[Ash]

You live in that London, a. You are in the belly of the liberal metropolitan beast. Venture past the M25, however, and a different story will emerge - as these chaps are discovering :hehe:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/04/comedians-tell-anti-brexit-jokes-damaging-careersas-audiences/

I have been wondering why any leave voter would want to watch any comedians as they all (at least the TV-approved ones) seem determined to constantly depict leavers as knuckle-dragging, racist idiots. Perhaps it is time for a new wave of alternative comedy. Alternative to the mainstream.

Also I see that John Lydon has reversed his position from being pro EU to anti, now that he has seen that the disgust of the bien-pensant classes to leavers is basically the same as the disgust against him as he forged his career.

[eastgermanautos]

Bit like Dennis Skinner saying half the tory party were corrupt... he was told that wasn't acceptable. So changed it to half the tory part aren't corrupt

:hehe: :hehe:

[World's End Stella]

Oh, I think that genie's well and truly out of the bottle. Nobody feels shy talking about how much we hate the EU anymore.

Um, can I point out that over 16 million people voted to remain in that thing they hate so much? Not to mention that had 18-30 year olds turned out in the same proportion as the over 55s did, the vote would have been to remain.

We voted to leave Burney, but your 'everyone hates the EU in Britain' narrative is misleading.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

A lot of Remain voters do not like the EU. They were scared into voting to remain.

[Ash]

We voted to leave Burney, but your 'everyone hates the EU in Britain' narrative is misleading.

He didn't say 'everyone'.

Your post is misleading imo.

[Burney]

Um, can I point out that over 16 million people voted to remain in that thing they hate so much? Not to mention that had 18-30 year olds turned out in the same proportion as the over 55s did, the vote would have been to remain.

We voted to leave Burney, but your 'everyone hates the EU in Britain' narrative is misleading.

I didn't say they did. I said those who do are able to be much more open about it and can no longer dismissed as cranks and ignored.

However, your 'had 18-30 year olds turned out in the same proportion as the over 55s did, the vote would have been to remain' thing is nonsense. By their nature, people who don't vote cannot be counted as being on one side or another.

[Pat Vegas]

The President (who happens to be Italian) intervened to suggest that the language wasn't appropriate, so Nigel said "I appreciate there are certain national sensitivities......ok then, you're gangsters"

I don't see why this would offend an Italian.

It's like if you compared someone to ISIS and community leaders got upset. They shouldn't really as it's nothing to do with Italy. :shrug:

[World's End Stella]

I didn't say they did. I said those who do are able to be much more open about it and can no longer dismissed as cranks and ignored.

However, your 'had 18-30 year olds turned out in the same proportion as the over 55s did, the vote would have been to remain' thing is nonsense. By their nature, people who don't vote cannot be counted as being on one side or another.

So 'we' in this case was the Leavers only? OK, fair enough.

And I disagree with your assessment of those who did not vote. Many a vote has been won or lost because of voter apathy, you can't assume that someone who is apathetic about voting doesn't have a strong view. A rather large number of people thought there was no way we would vote Leave, and stayed at home as a result.

It was without question a factor in the decision.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

If there were to be another referendum now, the margin would be much bigger. That's what all the opinion polls say. Many people cajoled into voting have lost their fear of Brexit.

[Burney]

you can't assume that someone who is apathetic about voting doesn't have a strong view

I would define 'a strong view' as being one that you're prepared to get off your arse and vote for, personally.

'Apathy' by definition means you don't have a strong view.

[Burney]

If there were to be another referendum now, the margin would be much bigger. That's what all the opinion polls say. Many people cajoled into voting have lost their fear of Brexit.

The point is that none of these hypotheticals actually matter. If my aunty had bóllocks, she'd be my uncle and so forth.

The only concrete fact is what happened on 23rd June last year.

[Yesterday Once More]

The point is that none of these hypotheticals actually matter. If my aunty had bóllocks, she'd be my uncle and so forth.

The only concrete fact is what happened on 23rd June last year.

Exactly. And while the remoaners are right to say that there is nothing undemocratic about continuing to argue for their cause after you lose an election, many of them are being disingenuous in trying to talk down the prospects of the Government getting a deal which reflects the aspirations of the leavers. They are saying "we can't" when what they mean is "we don't want to". Big difference, and what they are hoping to do is to create so much dissent that we end up with a massive fudge.

That's why UKIP aren't redundant, and won't be any time soon.....because someone needs to hold May's feet to the fire while those who never wanted us to leave the EU are trying to get her to compromise on the big-ticket stuff such as reducing immigration to get access to the Single Market. If she holds the line, Conservatives walk the next election, simples.

[World's End Stella]

I would define 'a strong view' as being one that you're prepared to get off your arse and vote for, personally.

'Apathy' by definition means you don't have a strong view.

I meant apathetic about the need to vote itself i.e. they didn't think for a second we would vote Leave.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

This shouldn't be about party politics. In my view the likelihood of an acceptable deal on access to the single market is now approximately 0%. so we might as well start working on the alternatives.

[Sir C]

This shouldn't be about party politics. In my view the likelihood of an acceptable deal on access to the single market is now approximately 0%. so we might as well start working on the alternatives.

Whatever happens, we won't lose 'access' to the single market. In the absence of a deal, there may be duty applied to UK goods entering the EU. These duties are generally somewhere between 2% and 10%. Given that sterling has devalued against the euro by more than 10%, it is unlikely that UK goods would end up more expensive than before June 23rd.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

I am aware of that. Which is why I think the running around scared is so ridiculous.

And UK needs to be ready to respond, selectively, to any duties imposed.

[Burney]

I meant apathetic about the need to vote itself i.e. they didn't think for a second we would vote Leave.

:hehe: Are you basing this on any actual evidence or is it just what some people have said?

[redgunamo]

I have been wondering why any leave voter would want to watch any comedians as they all (at least the TV-approved ones) seem determined to constantly depict leavers as knuckle-dragging, racist idiots. Perhaps it is time for a new wave of alternative comedy. Alternative to the mainstream.

Also I see that John Lydon has reversed his position from being pro EU to anti, now that he has seen that the disgust of the bien-pensant classes to leavers is basically the same as the disgust against him as he forged his career.

The Alternative always does become mainstream in the end, doesn't it. Because it's usually either that or stacking shelves and flipping hamburgers.

Dangerous business, of course, but there we are.