I note that the police are boasting of having made two 'significant arrests' in the

[Burney]

case of our late Allan friend. :rubchin:

For a 'lone wolf' he does seem to have been remarkably gregarious, doesn't he?

[Rich]

case of our late Allan friend. :rubchin:

For a 'lone wolf' he does seem to have been remarkably gregarious, doesn't he?

Well obviously his close family and probably some of his religious leaders will have chosen to turn a blind eye. Have we heard the leader of his mosque condemn his actions, hmmm? The silence is deafening.

Absolutely vile people.

[World's End Stella]

Well obviously his close family and probably some of his religious leaders will have chosen to turn a blind eye. Have we heard the leader of his mosque condemn his actions, hmmm? The silence is deafening.

Absolutely vile people.

Actually, the Muslim community *leaders* seem to have been far more vocal and less defensive than they have in the past.

Although I'd still like to see a few dozen imams publicly stating that this act was contrary to Islam and using quotes from the Koran as a justification.

[Rich]

Actually, the Muslim community *leaders* seem to have been far more vocal and less defensive than they have in the past.

Although I'd still like to see a few dozen imams publicly stating that this act was contrary to Islam and using quotes from the Koran as a justification.

Absolutely. Or the Imam from his own Mosque (does each won have an Imam?) - at least he could come out and defend his mosque's reputation. Even if it's a lie, at least condemn it.

I just can't believe how they get away with it. I find it utterly repulsive.

[Pokster]

Absolutely vile people.[/QUOTE]

Who exactly are you calling vile people?

[Luis Anaconda]

Well obviously his close family and probably some of his religious leaders will have chosen to turn a blind eye. Have we heard the leader of his mosque condemn his actions, hmmm? The silence is deafening.

Absolutely vile people.
You really are quite an ignorant **** aren't

[Burney]

Actually, the Muslim community *leaders* seem to have been far more vocal and less defensive than they have in the past.

Although I'd still like to see a few dozen imams publicly stating that this act was contrary to Islam and using quotes from the Koran as a justification.

You realise, of course, that it would be just as easy - easier in fact - to find quotes from the Quran that justify it? :shrug:

[Rich]

Absolutely vile people.

Who exactly are you calling vile people?[/QUOTE]

Muslims that think that their religion in any way justifies the slaughter of innocent people from all races and religions. Sadly I believe that the number of them that are happy to shrug these things off is far higher than many expect :-(

[Burney]

Sadly I believe that the number of them that are happy to shrug these things off is far higher than many expect :-(

Well, since it's emerged that this chap wasn't even on the top 3,000 people considered most dangerous by MI5, I'd have to make you right there, at least.

Sleep well, everyone. :hehe:

[redgunamo]

Well, since it's emerged that this chap wasn't even on the top 3,000 people considered most dangerous by MI5, I'd have to make you right there, at least.

Sleep well, everyone. :hehe:

:hehe: You can't win, can you.

[Ash]

... it's emerged that this chap wasn't even on the top 3,000 people considered most dangerous by MI5

Linky please.

[Burney]

Linky please.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/mar/23/westminster-attack-parliament-resumes-tributes-keith-palmer-live?page=with:block-58d3bfc0e4b0a411e9ab7b0a (https://twitter.com/OnlineMagazin/status/845209451636445185)

[Ash]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/mar/23/westminster-attack-parliament-resumes-tributes-keith-palmer-live?page=with:block-58d3bfc0e4b0a411e9ab7b0a (https://twitter.com/OnlineMagazin/status/845209451636445185)

Have you tested that? It links to a twitter feed about Turkey.

The actual Guardian link https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/mar/23/westminster-attack-parliament-resumes-tributes-keith-palmer-live is live feed 19 pages long, so a bit difficult to find the info.

[IUFG]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/mar/23/westminster-attack-parliament-resumes-tributes-keith-palmer-live?page=with:block-58d3bfc0e4b0a411e9ab7b0a (https://twitter.com/OnlineMagazin/status/845209451636445185)

a bit racist . . .

the link, not you

[redgunamo]

Have you tested that? It links to a twitter feed about Turkey.

The actual Guardian link https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/mar/23/westminster-attack-parliament-resumes-tributes-keith-palmer-live is live feed 19 pages long, so a bit difficult to find the info.

Oh? There's a better one #chickenfeed

[SWv2]

Well obviously his close family and probably some of his religious leaders will have chosen to turn a blind eye. Have we heard the leader of his mosque condemn his actions, hmmm? The silence is deafening.

Absolutely vile people.

"Obviously"???

You utter fúcking tit.

[Ash]

"Obviously"???

You utter fúcking tit.

Mo would have their familes and friends all exterminated 'pour discourager les autres'.

[SWv2]

Mo would have their familes and friends all exterminated 'pour discourager les autres'.

We both know that Maurice has extreme views, perhaps we should report him for same.

Rich on the other hand is just a dick.

Brixton Academy later?

[Burney]

Have you tested that? It links to a twitter feed about Turkey.

The actual Guardian link https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/mar/23/westminster-attack-parliament-resumes-tributes-keith-palmer-live is live feed 19 pages long, so a bit difficult to find the info.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Khalid+Masood+3%2C000+MI5

[Ash]

Brixton Academy later?

Not this year. Going on hols tomorrow actually. Oop Norf.

[Ash]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Khalid+Masood+3%2C000+MI5

:thumbup:

I was more curious how you managed to get an anti-Turkish twitter account masked as Guardian article tbf.

[Burney]

:thumbup:

I was more curious how you managed to get an anti-Turkish twitter account masked as Guardian article tbf.

I have no idea how that happened, actually. Quite amusing, though. The Turkish version of That's Life! is pretty hardcore, isn't it? :hehe:

[Sir C]

Not this year. Going on hols tomorrow actually. Oop Norf.

Up Kirkstone Pass, is it? Have a pint of the wossname, black won.

Enjoy. Plenty of snow up there at present I believe.

[Burney]

Up Kirkstone Pass, is it? Have a pint of the wossname, black won.

Enjoy. Plenty of snow up there at present I believe.

Are you asking a if he'll be taking his good lady up the Kirkstone Pass? :yikes:

[Norn Iron]

They've released a pic of the terrorist. But why have they cut off his beard? :sherlock:

[Ash]

Up Kirkstone Pass, is it? Have a pint of the wossname, black won.

Enjoy. Plenty of snow up there at present I believe.

Snow! :yikes:

I think they might have photoshopped in the blue sky in this pic.

http://www.wainwrightroutes.co.uk/images/fef07_r1_02.jpg

[Ash]

They've released a pic of the terrorist. But why have they cut off his beard? :sherlock:

Possibly something to do with stereotyping beards and terrorists.

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/560/media/images/74581000/jpg/_74581573_2006_2006_hunger_strike_pacemaker_gerry_ adams_hunger_strike2.jpg

[Sir C]

Snow! :yikes:

I think they might have photoshopped in the blue sky in this pic.

http://www.wainwrightroutes.co.uk/images/fef07_r1_02.jpg

Yes, do you not follow Herdy Shepherd on Twitter? his photographs show the whole place covered in it. Earlier this week, anyway.

That's the fella. You must ask for, erm, the black beer. I don't know what it was called but b said it was gay.

If it's snowing you'll have fun getting there from Ambleside up The Struggle :hehe:

[Pat Vegas]

Possibly something to do with stereotyping beards and terrorists.

http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/560/media/images/74581000/jpg/_74581573_2006_2006_hunger_strike_pacemaker_gerry_ adams_hunger_strike2.jpg

http://cultspark.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Hans-Gruber-Die-Hard.jpg

Though he was a bank robber disguised as a terrorist.

[Ash]

Yes, do you not follow Herdy Shepherd on Twitter? his photographs show the whole place covered in it. Earlier this week, anyway.

That's the fella. You must ask for, erm, the black beer. I don't know what it was called but b said it was gay.

If it's snowing you'll have fun getting there from Ambleside up The Struggle :hehe:

Oh dear. We're in t'dales sat and sunday night so hopefully it will have thawed as spring bounces in over the weekend.

[Burney]

Yes, do you not follow Herdy Shepherd on Twitter? his photographs show the whole place covered in it. Earlier this week, anyway.

That's the fella. You must ask for, erm, the black beer. I don't know what it was called but b said it was gay.

If it's snowing you'll have fun getting there from Ambleside up The Struggle :hehe:

Wasn't it some form of mild?

[Sir C]

Oh dear. We're in t'dales sat and sunday night so hopefully it will have thawed as spring bounces in over the weekend.

Just checked the weather, looks like 11 or 12 degrees next week :-(

I'd love to go in lots of snow. I'd love it I tell you!

We're off in 4 weeks today. Hurrah!

Do you have any particular victorious summitings planned?

[Sir C]

Wasn't it some form of mild?

Dunno. It was beer, but black. You said it wasn't very strong and laughed at me :-(

[Burney]

Dunno. It was beer, but black. You said it wasn't very strong and laughed at me :-(

Yes. It was Kirkstone Black. About 3%.

https://untappd.com/b/thwaites-brewery-kirkstone-black/1719704

[IUFG]

Yes. It was Kirkstone Black. About 3%.

https://untappd.com/b/thwaites-brewery-kirkstone-black/1719704

**** me, the barmaid's apron will contain more alcohol

[Viva Prat Vegas]

I thought he was John Landis

[Ash]

Just checked the weather, looks like 11 or 12 degrees next week :-(

I'd love to go in lots of snow. I'd love it I tell you!

We're off in 4 weeks today. Hurrah!

Do you have any particular victorious summitings planned?

Nope. Got as far as digging out the Eastern and Far Eastern Wainwrights. Will need to get the wallchart out to see what needs to be done.

[Sir C]

Nope. Got as far as digging out the Eastern and Far Eastern Wainwrights. Will need to get the wallchart out to see what needs to be done.

Ideally placed there for the High Street horseshoe, of course.

[Ash]

Ideally placed there for the High Street horseshoe, of course.

Did High Street, Kidsy Pike and a few others of that lump from the Haweswater side. So possibly do stuff a bit south of there. Have done all the Hellvellyn ridge too. There are lots of gaps on the chart though - it's our least completed area, along with the hillocks north of Skidder.

[dismalswamp]

You realise, of course, that it would be just as easy - easier in fact - to find quotes from the Quran that justify it? :shrug:

Very true i'm afraid, a simple discussion with my parents who claimed 'Well it doesn't say kill people in there does it?'
I'm afraid yes it does, all Kafirs are fair game. This religion of peace bolox has to stop being spouted. Why don't people actually know the facts?

[Burney]

Very true i'm afraid, a simple discussion with my parents who claimed 'Well it doesn't say kill people in there does it?'
I'm afraid yes it does, all Kafirs are fair game. This religion of peace bolox has to stop being spouted. Why don't people actually know the facts?

Well because, like most religious texts, it's wildly inconsistent, ambiguous and contradictory, allowing for a broad range of interpretations.
That's the thing about God. He really struggles to make himself clear.

[World's End Stella]

You realise, of course, that it would be just as easy - easier in fact - to find quotes from the Quran that justify it? :shrug:

Yes, of course. But like all religions, Islam has bits we don't like in a modern, democratic, secular society and bits we do. The nutters do a pretty good job of highlighting the bits we don't so it strikes me as a pretty good idea that the more peaceful, modern members of our Muslim communities, who are in the overwhelming majority in this country, begin to emphasize the bits we do. Not doing so allows an unbalanced view of Islam to be consistently available in the media.

If there is a valid criticism of our Muslim communities it is how little of this they actually do. I expect partly because they feel they shouldn't have to and partly because of an ever present culture of victimization within their communities. But they need to man up and get over that, this is no time for being precious.

[Burney]

Yes, of course. But like all religions, Islam has bits we don't like in a modern, democratic, secular society and bits we do. The nutters do a pretty good job of highlighting the bits we don't so it strikes me as a pretty good idea that the more peaceful, modern members of our Muslim communities, who are in the overwhelming majority in this country, begin to emphasize the bits we do. Not doing so allows an unbalanced view of Islam to be consistently available in the media.

If there is a valid criticism of our Muslim communities it is how little of this they actually do. I expect partly because they feel they shouldn't have to and partly because of an ever present culture of victimization within their communities. But they need to man up and get over that, this is no time for being precious.

The problem they have is that any scrutiny of what the Quran actually says is going to be problematic for 'peaceful, modern muslims', since rather a lot of it isn't peaceful or modern.
One of the mistakes we make about Islam is thinking that the Quran is directly equivalent to the New Testament and thus all about the peace, love and understanding with just a couple of iffy bits. It really, really isn't. It's highly problematic in a lot of areas, which is why people prefer to gloss over it with the whole 'It's the religion of peace' nonsense and move on before anyone asks any tricky questions.
The fact is that on issues such as the place of women in society, attitudes towards non-muslims, blasphemy, apostasy, homosexuality and others, the Quran is actually pretty horrific.

[World's End Stella]

The problem they have is that any scrutiny of what the Quran actually says is going to be problematic for 'peaceful, modern muslims', since rather a lot of it isn't peaceful or modern.
One of the mistakes we make about Islam is thinking that the Quran is directly equivalent to the New Testament and thus all about the peace, love and understanding with just a couple of iffy bits. It really, really isn't. It's highly problematic in a lot of areas, which is why people prefer to gloss over it with the whole 'It's the religion of peace' nonsense and move on before anyone asks any tricky questions.
The fact is that on issues such as the place of women in society, attitudes towards non-muslims, blasphemy, apostasy, homosexuality and others, the Quran is actually pretty horrific.

True, yet the overwhelming majority of Muslims still lead their lives and consider themselves good Muslims while ignoring the parts to which you refer, so that gives us hope. An Islamic reformation is too much to ask for in our lifetime, Burney, but the very least we can expect is for the Muslim community leaders, imams etc to emphasize the parts of Islam which are consistent with modern life in Britain and to the extent that it is possible, ostracise the 70 year old men who grew up in the nether regions of Pakistan (as an example) and have far too much sympathy for the nutters.

More women and young people being active leaders within their communities is the key, I think. Less chaps in robes and silly hats with stupid beards.

[Burney]

True, yet the overwhelming majority of Muslims still lead their lives and consider themselves good Muslims while ignoring the parts to which you refer, so that gives us hope. An Islamic reformation is too much to ask for in our lifetime, Burney, but the very least we can expect is for the Muslim community leaders, imams etc to emphasize the parts of Islam which are consistent with modern life in Britain and to the extent that it is possible, ostracise the 70 year old men who grew up in the nether regions of Pakistan (as an example) and have far too much sympathy for the nutters.

More women and young people being active leaders within their communities is the key, I think. Less chaps in robes and silly hats with stupid beards.

That rather ignores the fact that a lot of the older generation of muslims who came here back in the 60s were rather more integration-minded than younger generations, many of whom have embraced a more fundamentalist outlook. Progress is far from linear or certain in that respect.

A lot of the problem lies in our idea that we can separate out culture from religion and treat them as two separate things. I really don't believe it's that simple. Religion - particularly a religion like Islam - shapes culture and it becomes well-nigh impossible to address a lot of these problems without addressing that fact.

[redgunamo]

Not easy for the dollies though, is it; they seem to have enough on their plate as it is. A woman cannot reach her full potential if she has children. On the other hand, if she does not have children her *community* cannot reach its full potential.

And I'm not sure charging them with the solution while blaming others for the problem makes sense either. You may just as well send the Household Cavalry in, for all the bitterness and resentment it would inevitably cause.

Dealing with organised crime would be another angle, but it's hard to imagine we're not doing everything possible on that score already.

Maybe there simply *is* no solution, as there is actually not a problem. Historically speaking. Perhaps it's just the price we all have to pay.




True, yet the overwhelming majority of Muslims still lead their lives and consider themselves good Muslims while ignoring the parts to which you refer, so that gives us hope. An Islamic reformation is too much to ask for in our lifetime, Burney, but the very least we can expect is for the Muslim community leaders, imams etc to emphasize the parts of Islam which are consistent with modern life in Britain and to the extent that it is possible, ostracise the 70 year old men who grew up in the nether regions of Pakistan (as an example) and have far too much sympathy for the nutters.

More women and young people being active leaders within their communities is the key, I think. Less chaps in robes and silly hats with stupid beards.