Perfect results from the by-elections last night

[Burney]

Labour humiliated in Copeland, but hang on in Stoke, thus basically screwing UKIP and also doing enough to allow Corbyn to limp on as leader of a party doomed to perpetual opposition. :cloud9:

[Sir C]

Labour humiliated in Copeland, but hang on in Stoke, thus basically screwing UKIP and also doing enough to allow Corbyn to limp on as leader of a party doomed to perpetual opposition. :cloud9:

Nah, they'll be fine. Their policies are wholeheartedly supported by The Membership, and once the Blairite Red Tories have been de-selected and replaced by proper Socialists, unity will return and they will sweep all before them in the next general election.

Am I doing it right?

[Luis Anaconda]

Labour humiliated in Copeland, but hang on in Stoke, thus basically screwing UKIP and also doing enough to allow Corbyn to limp on as leader of a party doomed to perpetual opposition. :cloud9:

Unique circumstances according to the John McDonnell, a man whose lack of political nous make Corbyn look like a ****ing genius

[Burney]

Nah, they'll be fine. Their policies are wholeheartedly supported by The Membership, and once the Blairite Red Tories have been de-selected and replaced by proper Socialists, unity will return and they will sweep all before them in the next general election.

Am I doing it right?

:hehe: I see that Dennis Skinner has blamed it on Labour not being left-wing enough. :clap:
Meanwhile, the party line now appears to be to describe Copeland - a seat they've held for 80 years - as 'a marginal' that they've done well to push the tories close in given the disparity between the two in the polls.
Meanwhile, the likes of Owen Jones who were cheerleaders for Corbyn are now saying he needs to go - whilst apparently not acknowledging any blame on their parts.

It's hilarious.

[Burney]

Unique circumstances according to the John McDonnell, a man whose lack of political nous make Corbyn look like a ****ing genius

Unique circumstances created almost entirely by Labour's own ineptitude.

[Luis Anaconda]

Unique circumstances created almost entirely by Labour's own ineptitude.
Although the Stoke one was interesting - a 70% vote for leave so they put up a hardline remainer who called Brexit a pile of ****. It's like they are trying to lose. I guess they were helped by a 35% turnout and the poor people of Stoke couldn't cope with writing an x twice in a year

[Mo Britain less Europe]

Far from perfect. Farage should have stood in Stoke. He would have won at a canter.

[Burney]

Although the Stoke one was interesting - a 70% vote for leave so they put up a hardline remainer who called Brexit a pile of ****. It's like they are trying to lose. I guess they were helped by a 35% turnout and the poor people of Stoke couldn't cope with writing an x twice in a year

He was literally the worst candidate I've ever seen ever - virtually an insult, in fact - and they still won. :hehe:

[Monty92]

What I find incredible is hearing McDonnell this morning describe UKIP as a "stain on British politics" and in the next breath say that Labour have to listen more to ordinary people.

What level of cognitive dissonance is required to think there is no inherent contradiction between the two statements? Does he think the 4 million who voted for ukip in 2015 and the 17 million who voted for Brexit will just not realise he's essentially talking about them as the "stain"?

[Mo Britain less Europe]

McDonnell is a terrorist-loving stain on humanity.

[71 Guns - channeling the spirit of Mr Hat]

Labour humiliated in Copeland, but hang on in Stoke, thus basically screwing UKIP and also doing enough to allow Corbyn to limp on as leader of a party doomed to perpetual opposition. :cloud9:

Apparently Nuttall has denied even standing in this by-election.

[Luis Anaconda]

Apparently Nuttall has denied even standing in this by-election.

tbf - he finally said a truthful thing. “I’m not going anywhere,” he concluded.

[Burney]

What I find incredible is hearing McDonnell this morning describe UKIP as a "stain on British politics" and in the next breath say that Labour have to listen more to ordinary people.

What level of cognitive dissonance is required to think there is no inherent contradiction between the two statements? Does he think the 4 million who voted for ukip in 2015 and the 17 million who voted for Brexit will just not realise he's essentially talking about them as the "stain"?

Labour literally has no idea who its voters are or what they want anymore. Its support base is essentially the bien pensant metropolitan middle classes, students, public sector employees and the remnants of what we used to call the working classes who vote for them out of instinct. And that's it. Almost nobody else will vote for them anymore. Their voter base is so unevenly spread across society that it's virtually impossible to devise a manifesto that's going to keep all those people happy, which means that virtually any utterance that pleases one side of the voter base will anger the other. It's doubtful whether that is sustainable in terms of keeping the party together, but it's certain that it's impossible for it to win power.

[Burney]

Far from perfect. Farage should have stood in Stoke. He would have won at a canter.

I think UKIP has served its purpose and will see its support dwindle in the years to come. The interesting question is where those votes will go. They won't go back to Labour without it changing course considerably, but a lot of them might go to the Tories if they play their cards right.

[Ash]

tbf - he finally said a truthful thing. “I’m not going anywhere,” he concluded.

Are we talking about Arsene again?

[Luis Anaconda]

are we talking about arsene again?

boooooooooooooooo

[Luis Anaconda]

I think UKIP has served its purpose and will see its support dwindle in the years to come. The interesting question is where those votes will go. They won't go back to Labour without it changing course considerably, but a lot of them might go to the Tories if they play their cards right.

Interesting piece by Danny Finkelstein on this in the Times saying there was a strong feeling within the Tory party that they had "maxed out" at the last election and won as many seats as they could possibly hope to win, but now the sky is the limit (sort of)

[Burney]

Interesting piece by Danny Finkelstein on this in the Times saying there was a strong feeling within the Tory party that they had "maxed out" at the last election and won as many seats as they could possibly hope to win, but now the sky is the limit (sort of)

That would be an understandable feeling, but they couldn't have reckoned on Labour deciding that the best way to cure its headache was to blow its brains out. That and Brexit have offered the Tories unprecedented opportunities to steal Labour's heartlands by being seen as 'the party of real, working people' (whatever that means) and as the only party determined and capable enough to enact Brexit.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

I think UKIP has served its purpose and will see its support dwindle in the years to come. The interesting question is where those votes will go. They won't go back to Labour without it changing course considerably, but a lot of them might go to the Tories if they play their cards right.

UKIP has to position itself as a worker's party on the right, a Fascist party avoiding the offending word. In that way Labour remains unelectable until/unless they ditch the loony left agenda. I fear UKIP's number may be up though. Farage is an interesting individual, Nuttall is more like a mountebank in a village fete. They have not attracted people of substance.

[Luis Anaconda]

That would be an understandable feeling, but they couldn't have reckoned on Labour deciding that the best way to cure its headache was to blow its brains out. That and Brexit have offered the Tories unprecedented opportunities to steal Labour's heartlands by being seen as 'the party of real, working people' (whatever that means) and as the only party determined and capable enough to enact Brexit.

Why is there not more talk of May holding an early election - or is there? The only thing hampering her is a perceived lack of mandate as PM (yes, I know under our rules we don't elect PM etc). She could put herself in a much stronger position

[Mo Britain less Europe]

The agreement to have fixed term parliaments? I think an election will happen if she is given an excuse and it will make 1983 look like the proverbial vicarage tea party.

[Sir C]

Why is there not more talk of May holding an early election - or is there? The only thing hampering her is a perceived lack of mandate as PM (yes, I know under our rules we don't elect PM etc). She could put herself in a much stronger position

Whilst Matthew Paris, as a rule, is wrong about everything, he made the point a few weeks ago that however wide the gap may seem in the polls, a general election is always a risk, and some major event during the campaign could feasibly de-rail the whole thing...

[Burney]

Why is there not more talk of May holding an early election - or is there? The only thing hampering her is a perceived lack of mandate as PM (yes, I know under our rules we don't elect PM etc). She could put herself in a much stronger position

There's the fixed-term parliament thing, but there are ways round that. More important, I think, is the desire to keep the left of the Labour Party in control as long as possible in order to maximise the damage and ensure that there's no worthwhile opposition to make things difficult during the Brexit process. A shattering electoral defeat would force Corbyn out and precipitate a leadership election that a moderate would win. That's the last thing May wants right now.

[Burney]

Whilst Matthew Paris, as a rule, is wrong about everything, he made the point a few weeks ago that however wide the gap may seem in the polls, a general election is always a risk, and some major event during the campaign could feasibly de-rail the whole thing...

That's a good point. Also, people are sick of voting at the moment and being forced to do so again could produce some tricky results due to low turnout, etc.

[Luis Anaconda]

The agreement to have fixed term parliaments? I think an election will happen if she is given an excuse and it will make 1983 look like the proverbial vicarage tea party.

Ah - I thought that was just an agreement when the coalition was in place. But yes - it does look that way regarding the outcome.

RE Ukip - the fact that when looking for a leader after Farage, Nuttall, the deputy, wasn't considered until after another leader had come in and resigned and the candidates to replace her completely screwed themselves just shows how little credibility he has. To survive, they needed some prominent defection from the Tories I would say - and if they thought Carswell was in any way that person they deserve to disappear

[Luis Anaconda]

That's a good point. Also, people are sick of voting at the moment and being forced to do so again could produce some tricky results due to low turnout, etc.

Yep - fair points all round I guess