Is there a realistic possibility that our squad is actually ****?

[Peter]

No question that some of them are useless ****s. I mean if Wenger leaves is it possible that a perfectly good manager comes in and just cannot get anything out of them because they are ****/lazy/injured/****s or a combination of all four?

I don't think its the case but I cant completely rule it out.

[Luis Anaconda]

No question that some of them are useless ****s. I mean if Wenger leaves is it possible that a perfectly good manager comes in and just cannot get anything out of them because they are ****/lazy/injured/****s or a combination of all four?

I don't think its the case but I cant completely rule it out.
None of them are useless, obviously - the level of ability to get to where they are and the competition they have had to see off is incredible, but then you must know this. If our squad is **** every other squad in the league bar Chelsea, must therefore be **** since none are capable at this point in the season of accruing more points. And even Chelsea are only 10 points or so from being ****. How **** is that.

[Peter]

None of them are useless, obviously - the level of ability to get to where they are and the competition they have had to see off is incredible, but then you must know this. If our squad is **** every other squad in the league bar Chelsea, must therefore be **** since none are capable at this point in the season of accruing more points. And even Chelsea are only 10 points or so from being ****. How **** is that.

Right, I get that. My point was more that there seems to be a general assumption that they are capable of better were it not for Wenger and his general silliness. What if this is actually the summit of what they are capable of and without Wenger we are useless?

I haven't seen enough of Mustafi or Xhaka but what I have seen varies from great to terrible. Do you think they are any good?

[Pat Vegas]

No question that some of them are useless ****s. I mean if Wenger leaves is it possible that a perfectly good manager comes in and just cannot get anything out of them because they are ****/lazy/injured/****s or a combination of all four?

I don't think its the case but I cant completely rule it out.

No we are actually good and that's why we are frustrating.
However we are a mix of good players and overrated ones.

It seems to be the mentality is weird. But it's not exclusive to this current bunch of players it seems to have happened previously. When we are confident we play amazing football at times. It seems when the big occasion arrives we don't turn up for it. These players should be really excited for a game against Bayern. After all this is what we are told is footballers dream of.

On a side note. I find it really weird that Gibbs is playing lately it's like a flashback.

We seem to lack leadership.

[Pat Vegas]

Right, I get that. My point was more that there seems to be a general assumption that they are capable of better were it not for Wenger and his general silliness. What if this is actually the summit of what they are capable of and without Wenger we are useless?

I haven't seen enough of Mustafi or Xhaka but what I have seen varies from great to terrible. Do you think they are any good?

Well Mustafi was doing alright until the Watford game as he was unbeaten. From a technical stand point I don't know.

[Luis Anaconda]

Right, I get that. My point was more that there seems to be a general assumption that they are capable of better were it not for Wenger and his general silliness. What if this is actually the summit of what they are capable of and without Wenger we are useless?

I haven't seen enough of Mustafi or Xhaka but what I have seen varies from great to terrible. Do you think they are any good?

More sensibly put. And yes both are excellent footballers. Mustafi made an immediate difference when he came in and even if he struggling bit for form now, I think most people recognise his quality. As for Xhaka, we clearly haven't seen the best of him - read the article I posted the other day and the difference he made to Monchengladbach team - we have quite a talent there

[7sisters]

It seems pretty fair to say the old ******* has been found wanting in his purchase of world class defenders over the years, bar a couple of exceptions but there seems a surplus of good players elsewhere in the squard.
He places very little importance upon the captaincy, as demonstrated buy his peculiar choices of Per and Arteta; who both went on to play a mere handful of games following their appointments.
Lack of leadership and heads dropping when going behind to more stiff opponents comes up time and again. Either way, we've been pretty poor for too long in the bigger fixtures. Wenger's stuck in a rut and seems clueless in terms of being to be able to make that quantum leap between being a good side to becoming a great one.

[Peter]

More sensibly put. And yes both are excellent footballers. Mustafi made an immediate difference when he came in and even if he struggling bit for form now, I think most people recognise his quality. As for Xhaka, we clearly haven't seen the best of him - read the article I posted the other day and the difference he made to Monchengladbach team - we have quite a talent there

Mustafi, quite understandably, looks far better playing alongside the outstanding Koscielny. He is also still in his first season with us and his first season as a big money signing. I am not concerned.

Xhaka has been unlucky. His first red was a joke and his second somewhat borderline. I hope to see more of him. If we have a weakness I am sure it is in midfield (wide forwards could be a bit better and a top class left back would be nice, but you know what I mean)

[World's End Stella]

No question that some of them are useless ****s. I mean if Wenger leaves is it possible that a perfectly good manager comes in and just cannot get anything out of them because they are ****/lazy/injured/****s or a combination of all four?

I don't think its the case but I cant completely rule it out.

I think a common view is that if the squad are capable of finishing in the top four consistently and second last year, there must be some very good players in there. This is reinforced by some of the individual and team performances we routinely see not to mention the number of internationals and players that were first choice at clubs like Valencia, Real Madrid, Barcelona etc.

So the question then becomes, how can such a talented squad be capable of performances like Wednesday night and routinely fail the test when it comes to big games against big teams that more often than not decide who wins silverware?

And the answer to that last question seems, increasingly, to be the manager.

[Peter]

It seems pretty fair to say the old ******* has been found wanting in his purchase of world class defenders over the years, bar a couple of exceptions but there seems a surplus of good players elsewhere in the squard.
He places very little importance upon the captaincy, as demonstrated buy his peculiar choices of Per and Arteta; who both went on to play a mere handful of games following their appointments.
Lack of leadership and heads dropping when going behind to more stiff opponents comes up time and again. Either way, we've been pretty poor for too long in the bigger fixtures. Wenger's stuck in a rut and seems clueless in terms of being to be able to make that quantum leap between being a good side to becoming a great one.

Right, but the question was more about the quality in the squad. THat was more a general anti wenger rant.

Also, I would argue that our current options at centre back are as good as they have been since Adams, Keown and big Sol were around. If we lack world class defenders its because they are incredibly difficult to find. In Koscielny we certainly have one.

[Pat Vegas]

Right, but the question was more about the quality in the squad. THat was more a general anti wenger rant.

Also, I would argue that our current options at centre back are as good as they have been since Adams, Keown and big Sol were around. If we lack world class defenders its because they are incredibly difficult to find. In Koscielny we certainly have one.

Do you think a strong captain would put up with Sanchez's arm waving tantrums?
I think they would. And I think another manager would try to stop them doing this.

[7sisters]

Right, but the question was more about the quality in the squad. THat was more a general anti wenger rant.

Also, I would argue that our current options at centre back are as good as they have been since Adams, Keown and big Sol were around. If we lack world class defenders its because they are incredibly difficult to find. In Koscielny we certainly have one.

Yes.. I'd agree with that but it's clear we have no credible third option at the back if either of those get taken out. I think the squads overall very strong, we've missed Santi puling the strings in midfield but there's very little to complain about in terms of depth and ability.
You only have to look at Chelsea under Maureen last season and Conte this to see the impact of fresh thinking and a change of direction. I'm sure it's not all down to Kante and three at the back.

[Luis Anaconda]

Right, but the question was more about the quality in the squad. THat was more a general anti wenger rant.

Also, I would argue that our current options at centre back are as good as they have been since Adams, Keown and big Sol were around. If we lack world class defenders its because they are incredibly difficult to find. In Koscielny we certainly have one.

Indeed - Chelsea and City were both after ones in the summer. Chelsea couldn't find one - or get clubs to sell the ones they wanted - and resorted to Luiz (but you can't help by admire the brilliance of Conte in working the situation) incurred and City resorting to throwing money at a talented but incredibly naive one in Stones. I don't think anyone is in any doubt the Mustafi is overpriced at what we paid, but his early form certainly attracted admiring glances from other clubs

[Peter]

Indeed - Chelsea and City were both after ones in the summer. Chelsea couldn't find one - or get clubs to sell the ones they wanted - and resorted to Luiz (but you can't help by admire the brilliance of Conte in working the situation) incurred and City resorting to throwing money at a talented but incredibly naive one in Stones. I don't think anyone is in any doubt the Mustafi is overpriced at what we paid, but his early form certainly attracted admiring glances from other clubs

Tough to put a realistic price on a player that improves your side. All you can say is that he is worth a lot more than one that doesn't.

I may be in a minority but I would trust Per and I like Holding. Gabriel I am not sure about yet but in previous years we were desperately short on any kind of cover, let alone decent cover. This is like centre back heaven in comparison.

I have to say though....I want Ramsey gone. :(

[Peter]

Yes.. I'd agree with that but it's clear we have no credible third option at the back if either of those get taken out. I think the squads overall very strong, we've missed Santi puling the strings in midfield but there's very little to complain about in terms of depth and ability.
You only have to look at Chelsea under Maureen last season and Conte this to see the impact of fresh thinking and a change of direction. I'm sure it's not all down to Kante and three at the back.

As below, I disagree. I think a fit Per is a reliable option and Holding looks good. Nobody has cover at centre back of comparable quality to Koscielny and Mustafi.

Chelsea are not a great example. You have to remember they were excellent the season before until Mourinho pissed everyone off. I don't think their recovery is a miracle cure, just a well managed return to efficiency and form.

[SWv2]

Indeed - Chelsea and City were both after ones in the summer. Chelsea couldn't find one - or get clubs to sell the ones they wanted - and resorted to Luiz (but you can't help by admire the brilliance of Conte in working the situation) incurred and City resorting to throwing money at a talented but incredibly naive one in Stones. I don't think anyone is in any doubt the Mustafi is overpriced at what we paid, but his early form certainly attracted admiring glances from other clubs

I wouldn't say he is overpriced if we get a decent career out of him at the club, similarly Stones at City.

Outrageous sums of money of course but that is modern football. Rio Ferdinand costs ****loads over a decade ago but considering what Utd got from him you could say he was worth every penny.

[Peter]

Do you think a strong captain would put up with Sanchez's arm waving tantrums?
I think they would. And I think another manager would try to stop them doing this.

I don't see that as a big issue. The guy works his *******s off and has a go at people. Good! I wish they were all doing it.

I hated at least 3 of the guys I used to play football with but I still dreaded the weeks where one or more of them weren't available.

You need a few ****s.

[Sir C]

I don't see that as a big issue. The guy works his *******s off and has a go at people. Good! I wish they were all doing it.

I hated at least 3 of the guys I used to play football with but I still dreaded the weeks where one or more of them weren't available.

You need a few ****s.

What does all the arm-waving nonsense mean, though? If the manager wanted the whole team to press high up the pitch, and they didn't, then he should be sorting that out, not Sanchez. If a high press isn't the manager's decision, why is Sanchez trying to force his team-mates to join him? It's not up to him to decide the tactics.

[Pat Vegas]

What does all the arm-waving nonsense mean, though? If the manager wanted the whole team to press high up the pitch, and they didn't, then he should be sorting that out, not Sanchez. If a high press isn't the manager's decision, why is Sanchez trying to force his team-mates to join him? It's not up to him to decide the tactics.

My mum was right. Sanchez is the problem. He's unsettled the whole team as it's all about him.

Could be true.

[Peter]

What does all the arm-waving nonsense mean, though? If the manager wanted the whole team to press high up the pitch, and they didn't, then he should be sorting that out, not Sanchez. If a high press isn't the manager's decision, why is Sanchez trying to force his team-mates to join him? It's not up to him to decide the tactics.

I think the intention is to do a half-arsed press. Technically they are supposed to be doing it but they all secretly know they don't really have to unless we are playing Spurs.

Sanchez takes it literally. Or he is just being a **** and doesn't listen.

**** knows.

[Ash]

My mum was right. Sanchez is the problem. He's unsettled the whole team as it's all about him.

Could be true.

Interesting theory. He does appear to be a diva. Highly talented, desirable and produductive, but 'difficult to work with'* when it's all about him.

The other scenario being that he's the only one who can be bothered and he's entitled to be annoyed at the others.

Diva imo. :judge:

*Insufferable egotistist.

[Pat Vegas]

Interesting theory. He does appear to be a diva. Highly talented, desirable and produductive, but 'difficult to work with'* when it's all about him.

The other scenario being that he's the only one who can be bothered and he's entitled to be annoyed at the others.

Diva imo. :judge:

*Insufferable egotistist.

:nod: Sanchez out! As his tantrums grow Ozil's ability has dwindled.

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

I know jack but I think the squad is pretty good. I think the problem is that they are just not set up to go out and try to stifle other teams. They have to out score teams in order to win game. Whether that is by playing brilliant football or by pushing forward even if the good football is not happening on that day.

When they play a top team, a Chelsea or Bayern Munich, they cannot suddenly shut up shop and stop them from playing because they do not know how to do that. One game against Man City excepted. They are almost scared to play and wind up doing neither and good teams will take advantage.


Of course, they could just be a bit sheeet

[redgunamo]

I know jack but I think the squad is pretty good. I think the problem is that they are just not set up to go out and try to stifle other teams. They have to out score teams in order to win game. Whether that is by playing brilliant football or by pushing forward even if the good football is not happening on that day.

When they play a top team, a Chelsea or Bayern Munich, they cannot suddenly shut up shop and stop them from playing because they do not know how to do that. One game against Man City excepted. They are almost scared to play and wind up doing neither and good teams will take advantage.


Of course, they could just be a bit sheeet

I make you right. As a squad and as individual players, they are not properly developed and matured, footballistically. During a match, the manager shouldn't have to direct the players to defend at certain times and attack at others; they (as individuals and as a team) should know this already. That's why, and also ought to be *how*, they are professional footballers in the first place.

None of this is really the manager's fault during an actual game. His responsibility is in selecting them while they are lacking these "basics" and in failing to make up that shortfall through coaching and preparation and whatnot.

So many of them still play as though they are fourteen years old in a school's match and they are each by far the best player on the pitch.

Which, of course, so far as professional football is concerned, *is* a bit sheeet :-\

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

I make you right. As a squad and as individual players, they are not properly developed and matured, footballistically. During a match, the manager shouldn't have to direct the players to defend at certain times and attack at others; they (as individuals and as a team) should know this already. That's why, and also ought to be *how*, they are professional footballers in the first place.

None of this is really the manager's fault during an actual game. His responsibility is in selecting them while they are lacking these "basics" and in failing to make up that shortfall through coaching and preparation and whatnot.

So many of them still play as though they are fourteen years old in a school's match and they are each by far the best player on the pitch.

Which, of course, so far as professional football is concerned, *is* a bit sheeet :-\

Exactly. The players need more guidance in training. They need to be setup to play against good teams while being able to pick off weaker teams with their superior quality.