Luis Anaconda - Luis Anaconda – remind me of your belief that Wenger didn’t give

[Monty92]

Ospina an assurance that he’ll remain our Champions League goalie through the knock out phases subject to form?

[Luis Anaconda]

Ospina an assurance that he’ll remain our Champions League goalie through the knock out phases subject to form?
Wenger didn't give Ospina an assurance that he’ll remain our Champions League goalie through the knock out phases. By adding the subject to form, you are basically agreeing with what I said in the first place i.e. as he actually said and I believe repeated this week, he maintains the right to change keeper whenever he wants. That was my point, which you mystifyingly failed to grasp then and seemed intent on making the same point now.

Interesting situation none-the-less, given the fairly strong rumours that Wenger was considering dropping Cech at the weekend, it seems logical that he should continue with Ospina for now

[Monty92]

Wenger didn't give Ospina an assurance that he’ll remain our Champions League goalie through the knock out phases. By adding the subject to form, you are basically agreeing with what I said in the first place i.e. as he actually said and I believe repeated this week, he maintains the right to change keeper whenever he wants. That was my point, which you mystifyingly failed to grasp then and seemed intent on making the same point now.

Interesting situation none-the-less, given the fairly strong rumours that Wenger was considering dropping Cech at the weekend, it seems logical that he should continue with Ospina for now

No, I read between the lines of Ospina staying at the club last summer by making the, I think, entirely reasonable assumption that Wenger had promised him he'd be our Champions League keeper, and you derided me for doing so.

[Sir C]

no, i read between the lines of ospina staying at the club last summer by making the, i think, entirely reasonable assumption that wenger had promised him he'd be our champions league keeper, and you derided me for doing so.

you're just making things up.

[Luis Anaconda]

No, I read between the lines of Ospina staying at the club last summer by making the, I think, entirely reasonable assumption that Wenger had promised him he'd be our Champions League keeper, and you derided me for doing so.

Still do deride you for it, for reasons outlined above :shrug:

[Monty92]

Still do deride you for it, for reasons outlined above :shrug:

But my original argument included the "subject to form" caveat. Yet you still derided it.

Surprisingly, I don't believe Ospina forced Wenger to promise that even if he chucked three balls in his own net he'd still be obliged to play him in the next CL game.

[Luis Anaconda]

But my original argument included the "subject to form" caveat. Yet you still derided it.

Surprisingly, I don't believe Ospina forced Wenger to promise that even if he chucked three balls in his own net he'd still be obliged to play him in the next CL game.
:hehe: Among other things, the point we are mocking you for - you seem to want to leave sw out of this and he was just as much deriding you as me - is that the caveat makes the whole promise utterly meaningless

Besides you are being slightly disingenuous to suggest it was just that Wenger promised him, you said it did it as a result of a threat from Ospina to leave, which Wenger caved into. Nothing that has happened - or been said - to suggest that to be true
Your original comment:
"So reading between the lines of Wenger’s comments I assume that Ospina said he’d only stay if he got to play in the Champions League/domestic cup games".

[Herbette Chapman - aged 15]

and you derided me for doing so.

I think he derided you for being a petulant yappy noser Monty .

[SWv2]

No, I read between the lines of Ospina staying at the club last summer by making the, I think, entirely reasonable assumption that Wenger had promised him he'd be our Champions League keeper, and you derided me for doing so.

I doubt Wenger makes selection promises to any player.

[Monty92]

:hehe: Among other things, the point we are mocking you for - you seem to want to leave sw out of this and he was just as much deriding you as me - is that the caveat makes the whole promise utterly meaningless

Besides you are being slightly disingenuous to suggest it was just that Wenger promised him, you said it did it as a result of a threat from Ospina to leave, which Wenger caved into. Nothing that has happened - or been said - to suggest that to be true
Your original comment:
"So reading between the lines of Wenger’s comments I assume that Ospina said he’d only stay if he got to play in the Champions League/domestic cup games".

That is still a reasonable assumption for me to have made, although by couching it in tabloid terms like '"threat" you've made it sound a bit like a conspiracy theory, which was not my intention.

I merely think that it's entirely reasonable to imagine that Wenger asked Ospina to stay and his decision to do so was made on the basis that Wenger said he'd be his CL keeper, subject to form. And I fail to believe you don't agree 100% with this.

[Monty92]

I doubt Wenger makes selection promises to any player.

So if you had to put your life on it, you'd bet that there was no conversation between Ospina and Wenger last summer in which Wenger indicated his intention to play him in the Champions League?

[SWv2]

So if you had to put your life on it, you'd bet that there was no conversation between Ospina and Wenger last summer in which Wenger indicated his intention to play him in the Champions League?

While such a discussion may have taken place this was not the thrust of your argument which was essentially Ospina saying I am off unless .....

The concept of a reserve keeper putting such a gun to Wenger's head is laughable.

[World's End Stella]

So if you had to put your life on it, you'd bet that there was no conversation between Ospina and Wenger last summer in which Wenger indicated his intention to play him in the Champions League?

You're struggling - yet again - to follow the logical argument. I think it very likely that Ospina and Wenger discussed how much Ospina might play this season and that part of that discussion involved at least a mention of the CL.

I think it very unlikely - and this is what you were derided for - that there was a discussion in which Ospina indicated that unless he was the CL keeper this season he was going to leave.

I hope, but doubt, that that has cleared this up for you.

[Monty92]

While such a discussion may have taken place this was not the thrust of your argument which was essentially Ospina saying I am off unless .....

The concept of a reserve keeper putting such a gun to Wenger's head is laughable.

But a conversation to the effect of "I'm off unless...." may well have taken place. It's just the language that you insinuate I believe was used by the respective parties that is improbable.

[Sir C]

That is still a reasonable assumption for me to have made, although by couching it in tabloid terms like '"threat" you've made it sound a bit like a conspiracy theory, which was not my intention.

I merely think that it's entirely reasonable to imagine that Wenger asked Ospina to stay and his decision to do so was made on the basis that Wenger said he'd be his CL keeper, subject to form. And I fail to believe you don't agree 100% with this.

WHY ARE YOU BANGING ON AND ON ABOUT AN ALLEGED CONVERSATION OF WHICH YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE, YOU FÚCKING LUNATIC?

I put it to you that my postman, Richard, told his wife that he likes wearing his shorts during the winter and that no, his knees don't get cold. Actually that's wrong, he told her that he gets freezing in January and February and wants to wear trousers and she said, "Balls to that, we're not paying to dry clean your trousers, wear shorts." No, wait, what he said was, "Is there any chance of you learning to play the rusty trombone?" Yes, that's definitely the one, and I know this conversation took place because, like you, I make up entirely imaginary conversations in my head and then swear blind they're true.

Mental case.

[Viva Prat Vegas]

Arsene says

"We have a rule that the keepers know. It's important to have clear rules like that. They know what the rules are for the season. If they change, I'll tell them.
"It's down to performances. On what he delivered tonight, [Ospina] has the right to stay in the team for the next Champions League game (at home to Basel in a fortnight)."

[Monty92]

You're struggling - yet again - to follow the logical argument. I think it very likely that Ospina and Wenger discussed how much Ospina might play this season and that part of that discussion involved at least a mention of the CL.

I think it very unlikely - and this is what you were derided for - that there was a discussion in which Ospina indicated that unless he was the CL keeper this season he was going to leave.

I hope, but doubt, that that has cleared this up for you.

But I think it's entirely reasonable to believe a conversation to that precise effect did in fact take place. It's only the language that you, SW and LA insinuate I believe was used ("I'm off unless...") that makes this scenario seem improbable.

[Pokster]

But I think it's entirely reasonable to believe a conversation to that precise effect did in fact take place. It's only the language that you, SW and LA insinuate I believe was used ("I'm off unless...") that makes this scenario seem improbable.

This thread must be up there with the most pointless load of old **** that AWIMB has had for at least a week.

WHO CARES WHAT WAS SAID OR NOT SAID

[World's End Stella]

But I think it's entirely reasonable to believe a conversation to that precise effect did in fact take place. It's only the language that you, SW and LA insinuate I believe was used ("I'm off unless...") that makes this scenario seem improbable.

'only the language...I believe was used'

The language is awfully important, Monty.

[Monty92]

WHY ARE YOU BANGING ON AND ON ABOUT AN ALLEGED CONVERSATION OF WHICH YOU HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE, YOU FÚCKING LUNATIC?

I put it to you that my postman, Richard, told his wife that he likes wearing his shorts during the winter and that no, his knees don't get cold. Actually that's wrong, he told her that he gets freezing in January and February and wants to wear trousers and she said, "Balls to that, we're not paying to dry clean your trousers, wear shorts." No, wait, what he said was, "Is there any chance of you learning to play the rusty trombone?" Yes, that's definitely the one, and I know this conversation took place because, like you, I make up entirely imaginary conversations in my head and then swear blind they're true.

Mental case.

Because it's a conversation that we all know is almost certain to have happened. A conversation between a manager and a goalkeeper strongly linked with a move away due to a lack of first team football.

And it is blindingly obvious that the subject of Ospina being our first choice CL keeper will have been discussed and the fact Ospina remains at the club is likely to have been influenced by that. Yet some still deny this.

[Viva Prat Vegas]

"Leezen David, I ave decided shroo ze kindness of my art zat I vill start you in Chompions League but if your form is played with little bit andbreak on I will ave Petr in goal but look I make no promises on zat"

[Monty92]

"Leezen David, I ave decided shroo ze kindness of my art zat I vill start you in Chompions League but if your form is played with little bit andbreak on I will ave Petr in goal but look I make no promises on zat"

Not necessarily kindness of his heart. Might be mere pragmatism.

As Wenger said, "If you want to keep two world class goalkeepers you need to play them both"

[Monty92]

'only the language...I believe was used'

The language is awfully important, Monty.

Does Wenger's statement about Ospina that "If you want to keep two world class goalkeepers you need to play them both" strongly suggest that he knew if he didn't play him in the CL he'd leave?

[Pokster]

Does Wenger's statement about Ospina that "If you want to keep two world class goalkeepers you need to play them both" strongly suggest that he knew if he didn't play him in the CL he'd leave?

FFS shut up

[SWv2]

Does Wenger's statement about Ospina that "If you want to keep two world class goalkeepers you need to play them both" strongly suggest that he knew if he didn't play him in the CL he'd leave?

It is as likely that Wenger simply told Ospina that in light of Scezney going to Roma that he was in fact going nowhere what with contracts and all that.

[Monty92]

It is as likely that Wenger simply told Ospina that in light of Scezney going to Roma that he was in fact going nowhere what with contracts and all that.

So you think that by Wenger saying he would need to play Ospina to keep him, that he actually meant he would not need to play Osipna to keep him?

Interesting interpretation...

[SWv2]

So you think that by Wenger saying he would need to play Ospina to keep him, that he actually meant he would not need to play Osipna to keep him?

Interesting interpretation...

For the record I rarely listen to a word Wenger says, and when he does I rarely believe a word he says. Invariably I sense he talks an inordinate amount of bollócks, utter bollócks at that. Same as most football managers to be fair but he does it in a Gallic accent which some people confuse with adding more weight to his bollócks.

Here’s the thing, you are perpetuating an argument about an actual conversation or discussion that took place.

You were not present for this conversation. You have not heard a recording of this conversation. You have not read a transcript of this conversation.

None of us were.

Essentially you are yet again, and this is a recurring experience, making yourself look like a complete tool.

In summary. Shut up, for your own sake. Please.

[Pokster]

For the record I rarely listen to a word Wenger says, and when he does I rarely believe a word he says. Invariably I sense he talks an inordinate amount of bollócks, utter bollócks at that. Same as most football managers to be fair but he does it in a Gallic accent which some people confuse with adding more weight to his bollócks.

Here’s the thing, you are perpetuating an argument about an actual conversation or discussion that took place.

You were not present for this conversation. You have not heard a recording of this conversation. You have not read a transcript of this conversation.

None of us were.

Essentially you are yet again, and this is a recurring experience, making yourself look like a complete tool.

In summary. Shut up, for your own sake. Please.

He will carry on until he thinks he has had the last word

[Monty92]

He will carry on until he thinks he has had the last word

No I won't

[Pokster]

No I won't

correct, you won't

[Monty92]

For the record I rarely listen to a word Wenger says, and when he does I rarely believe a word he says. Invariably I sense he talks an inordinate amount of bollócks, utter bollócks at that. Same as most football managers to be fair but he does it in a Gallic accent which some people confuse with adding more weight to his bollócks.

Here’s the thing, you are perpetuating an argument about an actual conversation or discussion that took place.

You were not present for this conversation. You have not heard a recording of this conversation. You have not read a transcript of this conversation.

None of us were.

Essentially you are yet again, and this is a recurring experience, making yourself look like a complete tool.

In summary. Shut up, for your own sake. Please.

Sorry, you're complaining about a football fan commenting on a situation from a position of relative ignorance? :hehe:

[Luis Anaconda]

Does Wenger's statement about Ospina that "If you want to keep two world class goalkeepers you need to play them both" strongly suggest that he knew if he didn't play him in the CL he'd leave?

On a side note - why do you think Ospina didn't play in the League cup games. I think it is quite odd that given the limited game time (a month between last Champions League game and FA Cup third round), he didn't want to keep Ospina in the loop. Not related to previous debate, just genuinely curious. Suppose argument is to give Martinez experience but at the expense of Ospina getting games, is it worth it?

[SWv2]

On a side note - why do you think Ospina didn't play in the League cup games. I think it is quite odd that given the limited game time (a month between last Champions League game and FA Cup third round), he didn't want to keep Ospina in the loop. Not related to previous debate, just genuinely curious. Suppose argument is to give Martinez experience but at the expense of Ospina getting games, is it worth it?

I suspect Martinez told him he was off unless he promised to play him in the domestic cups.

Plausible?

[Monty92]

I suspect Martinez told him he was off unless he promised to play him in the domestic cups.

Plausible?

Of course that's entirely plausible, if you temper the language. You act is if a low-profile player has never asked to leave a club due to lack of first team football.

[SWv2]

Of course that's entirely plausible, if you temper the language. You act is if a low-profile player has never asked to leave a club due to lack of first team football.

If you read again my frivolous post was not a request to leave but a statement of intent, a threat almost.

Low profile players don’t do that, in fact can’t do that – unless of course it is the end of their deal.

[Monty92]

If you read again my frivolous post was not a request to leave but a statement of intent, a threat almost.

Low profile players don’t do that, in fact can’t do that – unless of course it is the end of their deal.

I would say that even high profile players don't "threaten" to leave, using that kind of language. I'm sure in the vast, vast majority of cases, these conversations are had in an entirely amicable and non-confrontational atmosphere, often between agent and manager, because generally speaking getting what you want is made easier by staying on good terms with whoever stands in your way.

But ultimately it all adds up to the same thing, and in ospina's case, that is "play me in the CL or i'm off", as indicated by Wenger's quotes about needing to play both goalkeepers if you're going to keep them both.

[Pokster]

I would say that even high profile players don't "threaten" to leave, using that kind of language. I'm sure in the vast, vast majority of cases, these conversations are had in an entirely amicable and non-confrontational atmosphere, often between agent and manager, because generally speaking getting what you want is made easier by staying on good terms with whoever stands in your way.

But ultimately it all adds up to the same thing, and in ospina's case, that is "play me in the CL or i'm off", as indicated by Wenger's quotes about needing to play both goalkeepers if you're going to keep them both.

So a keeper would be happy to stay for a guaranteed 6 games in a season???

[SWv2]

I would say that even high profile players don't "threaten" to leave, using that kind of language. I'm sure in the vast, vast majority of cases, these conversations are had in an entirely amicable and non-confrontational atmosphere, often between agent and manager, because generally speaking getting what you want is made easier by staying on good terms with whoever stands in your way.

But ultimately it all adds up to the same thing, and in ospina's case, that is "play me in the CL or i'm off", as indicated by Wenger's quotes about needing to play both goalkeepers if you're going to keep them both.

Oh sweet Jesus.

[Monty92]

So a keeper would be happy to stay for a guaranteed 6 games in a season???

I don't know if he would be "happy", but perhaps sufficiently placated to stay? Perhaps he felt he could push Cech this season if he can impress enough in the CL, which is pretty much what is happening.

[Pokster]

I don't know if he would be "happy", but perhaps sufficiently placated to stay? Perhaps he felt he could push Cech this season if he can impress enough in the CL, which is pretty much what is happening.

I find it hard to beleive that any player would be content to have only 6 games a season if he is a regular international...... and it is months since the last CL game and he hasn't had a look in at a PL game since I would suggest he isn't "pushing" Cech for a PL place

[Monty92]

I find it hard to beleive that any player would be content to have only 6 games a season if he is a regular international...... and it is months since the last CL game and he hasn't had a look in at a PL game since I would suggest he isn't "pushing" Cech for a PL place

Perhaps he's got his eye on usurping next season? Perhaps he likes it in London? I dunno.

But based on Wenger's quote, it does seem the promise of CL football has made the difference.

[Sir C]

Perhaps he's got his eye on usurping next season? Perhaps he likes it in London? I dunno.

But based on Wenger's quote, it does seem the promise of CL football has made the difference.

Have you developed autism?

[Pokster]

Perhaps he's got his eye on usurping next season? Perhaps he likes it in London? I dunno.

But based on Wenger's quote, it does seem the promise of CL football has made the difference.

What bloody quote? Is this the one you think he must have made but actually hasn't... but you muyst be correct as you know oh so much more about football than anyone else....

It si like listening to my Autistic son... I think Sir C is correct

[Monty92]

What bloody quote? Is this the one you think he must have made but actually hasn't... but you muyst be correct as you know oh so much more about football than anyone else....

It si like listening to my Autistic son... I think Sir C is correct

"If you want two world class goalkeepers you need to play them both"

[Pokster]

"If you want two world class goalkeepers you need to play them both"

You seem to have missed his CL quote off that.... but what is the point, you are like an autistic dog with a bone

[Monty92]

You seem to have missed his CL quote off that.... but what is the point, you are like an autistic dog with a bone

Well he's only played him in the CL. Unless you think he meant he'd need to rotate them in the Premier League.

[Pokster]

Well he's only played him in the CL. Unless you think he meant he'd need to rotate them in the Premier League.

Apart from the FA Cup games as well.. so even though he has never mentioned CL in any quote you think you are correct

[Viva Prat Vegas]

Not necessarily kindness of his heart. Might be mere pragmatism.

As Wenger said, "If you want to keep two world class goalkeepers you need to play them both"

"If you have two world-class goalkeepers you cannot keep [both] if one of them never gets a game."

[Monty92]

Apart from the FA Cup games as well.. so even though he has never mentioned CL in any quote you think you are correct

I reckon there's a more than reasonable chance Ospina was persuaded to stay by Wenger offering him CL football. I'm sure the FA Cup didn't do any harm, either.

So no I don't think I'm correct because I can't know for sure. But I think it's a reasonable and not at all outlandish guess.

[Peter]

"If you want two world class goalkeepers you need to play them both"

That quote is clearly *******s if for no other reason than it implies that Ospina is a world class goalkeeper.

[World's End Stella]

That quote is clearly *******s if for no other reason than it implies that Ospina is a world class goalkeeper.

By which you mean he's no Manuel Almunia, Peter?

;-)