I read that Ancelotti says Bayern will benefit from having a winter break.

[Pat Vegas]

however avoiding a FA cup replay.

We may have nearly 2 week break before playing liverpool then Bayern in the 2nd leg.

Though if it's over already it won't be much use.

[Pat Vegas]

Shut up you boring cund.

[Sir C]

Shut up you boring cund.

Your avatar reminds me of the last time I had a meal in a proper BR dining car. It was breakfast, on an early morning service from Lime St to London. White-jacketed stewards, heavy silver tea service, perfect, ironed white tablecloths... it was really rather galmourous, and this must have been as late as 1983.

What happened to glamour and to nice things, f?

[Pat Vegas]

Your avatar reminds me of the last time I had a meal in a proper BR dining car. It was breakfast, on an early morning service from Lime St to London. White-jacketed stewards, heavy silver tea service, perfect, ironed white tablecloths... it was really rather galmourous, and this must have been as late as 1983.

What happened to glamour and to nice things, f?

in my recent meeting I was told millennials are to blame.

Why have glamour when you can have an uber. not that a taxi is glamourous.

You don't even get nice tickets for flights anymore.
Oddly you can find all sorts of BR stuff on ebay. uniforms, briefcases, stationary. Not that I searched for such a thing.

[Burney]

Your avatar reminds me of the last time I had a meal in a proper BR dining car. It was breakfast, on an early morning service from Lime St to London. White-jacketed stewards, heavy silver tea service, perfect, ironed white tablecloths... it was really rather galmourous, and this must have been as late as 1983.

What happened to glamour and to nice things, f?

Yeah, but for some reason the railways then were run as a zero sum game, so the corollary of that service was a cattle class an Indian peasant wouldn't take his goat on. Now, of course, you have the communistic alternative whereby first class is barely distinguishable from standard.

[Burney]

in my recent meeting I was told millennials are to blame.

Why have glamour when you can have an uber. not that a taxi is glamourous.

You don't even get nice tickets for flights anymore.
Oddly you can find all sorts of BR stuff on ebay. uniforms, briefcases, stationary. Not that I searched for such a thing.

I used to find taking a black cab terribly glamorous when I was little.

[Pat Vegas]

I used to find taking a black cab terribly glamorous when I was little.

It's far to expensive these days. I'd take them regularly. I liked it when I was a kid and was always looking at that red light that shows the locks are on. or sitting on the fold down seat :cloud9:

I took one in the last year from London Bridge to Enfield. cost more than £60 it's not something I am happy to do.

[Sir C]

Yeah, but for some reason the railways then were run as a zero sum game, so the corollary of that service was a cattle class an Indian peasant wouldn't take his goat on. Now, of course, you have the communistic alternative whereby first class is barely distinguishable from standard.

Like the airline industry, everything dragged down to a level rather than up to a level. Socialism, in other words.

[redgunamo]

Bayern are finished anyway, all washed up. Theo and Danno and .. Alexis-o will smash 'em.




however avoiding a FA cup replay.

We may have nearly 2 week break before playing liverpool then Bayern in the 2nd leg.

Though if it's over already it won't be much use.

[Pat Vegas]

Like the airline industry, everything dragged down to a level rather than up to a level. Socialism, in other words.

Is there anyway they could design it a bit better so the the windows and the seats match up.
I always end up with some kind of eye strain. Or some cund opening the window behind me that overlaps my seat waking me up.

Yes I fly economy.

[Pat Vegas]

Bayern are finished anyway, all washed up. Theo and Danno and .. Alexis-o will smash 'em.

Hmm. I saw on Italian sky sports we were playing Bayern Monaco.
Seems some sort of amalgamation of 2 teams.

[Sir C]

Is there anyway they could design it a bit better so the the windows and the seats match up.
I always end up with some kind of eye strain. Or some cund opening the window behind me that overlaps my seat waking me up.

Yes I fly economy.

They're originally designed with seats and windows matching but then Michael O'Leary comes along and demands they just cram in as many seats in as possible, so it all goes to cock.

Business class is your friend, f. For anything over 2 hours it's essential.

What do you want to be, the richest man in the cemetary?

[Burney]

Like the airline industry, everything dragged down to a level rather than up to a level. Socialism, in other words.

Well it's unlike the airline industry in that costs have skyrocketed at both the bottom and top ends to provide a service that is 'meh' even at best. Not sure how they've managed that.

[redgunamo]

Hmm. I saw on Italian sky sports we were playing Bayern Monaco.
Seems some sort of amalgamation of 2 teams.

You see, they've even had to resort to blatant cheating.

[Sir C]

Well it's unlike the airline industry in that costs have skyrocketed at both the bottom and top ends to provide a service that is 'meh' even at best. Not sure how they've managed that.

I believe that's Richard Branson's fault.

[Pat Vegas]

They're originally designed with seats and windows matching but then Michael O'Leary comes along and demands they just cram in as many seats in as possible, so it all goes to cock.

Business class is your friend, f. For anything over 2 hours it's essential.

What do you want to be, the richest man in the cemetary?

I tried to upgrade on my Vegas flights but I was forbidden to do so. :-( Work politics.

All the wons on the virgin flight got upgraded to free. :furious: But on the funny side they got diverted to Ontario California :hehe: and on the way back their flight was cancelled completely.

I've made my flights a bit more bearable as now I take some of those nicotine lozenge to take the edge off of things.

[Pat Vegas]

You see, they've even had to resort to blatant cheating.

Typical Germans.

[Sir C]

It's far to expensive these days. I'd take them regularly. I liked it when I was a kid and was always looking at that red light that shows the locks are on. or sitting on the fold down seat :cloud9:

I took one in the last year from London Bridge to Enfield. cost more than £60 it's not something I am happy to do.

I will be popping off out east in April and seriously considered splurging on Singapore Airlines Suites class, but it's just too much money to justify. One day. Just for the experience.

438

[Burney]

I will be popping off out east in April and seriously considered splurging on Singapore Airlines Suites class, but it's just too much money to justify. One day. Just for the experience.

438

I thought you'd got a bed before?

[Sir C]

I thought you'd got a bed before?

Oh you always get a bed in business. But this is a seperate cabin, with a double bed, and the use of a shower.

Chef is on call throughout the flight and the wide-ranging menu includes lobster thermidor :hehe:

£7,500 each return. With business class at £2,500, I'd could countenance going as far as £5,000, just the once, just to have experienced it, but £7,500 is too rich for my blood.

[Burney]

Oh you always get a bed in business. But this is a seperate cabin, with a double bed, and the use of a shower.

Chef is on call throughout the flight and the wide-ranging menu includes lobster thermidor :hehe:

£7,500 each return. With business class at £2,500, I'd could countenance going as far as £5,000, just the once, just to have experienced it, but £7,500 is too rich for my blood.

The key question, of course, is: are you allowed to have sex in it?

[Pat Vegas]

I will be popping off out east in April and seriously considered splurging on Singapore Airlines Suites class, but it's just too much money to justify. One day. Just for the experience.

438

I think my friend did this one. or similar.
He's got a youtube channel of him just flying all over the world. He often just goes on trips just to experience the flight then flies back.

[Sir C]

The key question, of course, is: are you allowed to have sex in it?

I don't think they'd be allowed to suggest that it's allowed per se, but the bumph says, "When you’re travelling in our Suites, you’ll never have to share your personal space. Your individual cabin has its own sliding door and window blinds to give you all the privacy you want. Its spaciousness allows for a standalone bed, completely separate from your seat. A space that’s all yours. Nothing comes close."

So that's basically an invitation to get jiggy, isn't it?

[Sir C]

I think my friend did this one. or similar.
He's got a youtube channel of him just flying all over the world. He often just goes on trips just to experience the flight then flies back.

Yes, there is a forum called Flyertalk, populated by people who fly around the world first class as a hobby.

[SWv2]

The key question, of course, is: are you allowed to have sex in it?

At £7,500 I expect it is thrown in, choice of 3 air stewards (or the poofs that work on the plane if that is your thing).

Sex buffet as such.

[Burney]

I don't think they'd be allowed to suggest that it's allowed per se, but the bumph says, "When you’re travelling in our Suites, you’ll never have to share your personal space. Your individual cabin has its own sliding door and window blinds to give you all the privacy you want. Its spaciousness allows for a standalone bed, completely separate from your seat. A space that’s all yours. Nothing comes close."

So that's basically an invitation to get jiggy, isn't it?

So you would literally be 'splurging' on it? I assume they change the sheets?

Still, 5 grand extra is a bit much just to knob the wife, innit? :-\

[Pat Vegas]

Yes, there is a forum called Flyertalk, populated by people who fly around the world first class as a hobby.

he makes about £650 a month from youtube too :-(
I want some of this action.

Oddly he said he's quite scared of flying.

[Burney]

At £7,500 I expect it is thrown in, choice of 3 air stewards (or the poofs that work on the plane if that is your thing).

Sex buffet as such.

Ermmm...a steward is one of the pooves, sw.

[Sir C]

At £7,500 I expect it is thrown in, choice of 3 air stewards (or the poofs that work on the plane if that is your thing).

Sex buffet as such.

The cabin crew are trained to save your life when the smoke is too thick for you to find an exit, sw, not to nosh on your gnarly, shrivelled old member.

[Burney]

The cabin crew are trained to save your life when the smoke is too thick for you to find an exit, sw, not to nosh on your gnarly, shrivelled old member.

They can presumably do both, though? Albeit not at the same time. :shrug:

[World's End Stella]

Like the airline industry, everything dragged down to a level rather than up to a level. Socialism, in other words.

Not true for air travel, I think. I can remember flying economy when the food was utterly inedible and your only entertainment was a good book or, if you were lucky, a decent view of a small telly at the front of your section which showed one movie. Even business class back then was just a larger seat and slightly better food.

Nowadays even economy passengers get their own telly with an extensive entertainment system and the food is decent and enjoyable. Business class is unlimited alcohol, flat beds, a bar to sit around etc etc

Air travel has never been better imo.

[Burney]

Not true for air travel, I think. I can remember flying economy when the food was utterly inedible and your only entertainment was a good book or, if you were lucky, a decent view of a small telly at the front of your section which showed one movie. Even business class back then was just a larger seat and slightly better food.

Nowadays even economy passengers get their own telly with an extensive entertainment system and the food is decent and enjoyable. Business class is unlimited alcohol, flat beds, a bar to sit around etc etc

Air travel has never been better imo.

Long haul, yes - but the TV thing is mostly just a function of technology. More importantly in those days, you'd never have to pay for a drink on any flight and now you do - even on some long haul carriers.

In fairness, those long haul carriers that do charge for drinks are almost always American and thus awful, but still.

[Sir C]

Not true for air travel, I think. I can remember flying economy when the food was utterly inedible and your only entertainment was a good book or, if you were lucky, a decent view of a small telly at the front of your section which showed one movie. Even business class back then was just a larger seat and slightly better food.

Nowadays even economy passengers get their own telly with an extensive entertainment system and the food is decent and enjoyable. Business class is unlimited alcohol, flat beds, a bar to sit around etc etc

Air travel has never been better imo.

Well most airlines have withdrawn, or are withdrawing, the traditional 'free' meal on short haul economy in favour of taking extra profit from painfully expensive sangweches and so on.

I remember when flying was glamourous. One would wear a suit and tie, and get to the airport early to enjoy a silver service meal in a beautiful restaurant over looking the runway. At the specified departure time, the engines would be started by the flight engineers and then the captain would arrive, pull on his white gloves, and ceremonially accept the aircraft. Then the adventure began! Day one, Croydon to Le Bourget and then Rome and on to Brindisi. Overnight, then Athens, Alexandria and Cairo. One was accomodated at only the finest hotels, of course, many built specifically by the airline. One wore white tie for dinner, naturally. From Cairo there was a long hop to Delhi, then Calcutta, where one might break one's journey and catch up with old chums serving in the Raj. There would be great excitement if an invitation could be obtained to a ball at the governer's mansion.

Now slobs like you wear nylon football shirts on their pilgrimages to hellholes like Mgaluf and Dubai :-(

[Burney]

Well most airlines have withdrawn, or are withdrawing, the traditional 'free' meal on short haul economy in favour of taking extra profit from painfully expensive sangweches and so on.

I remember when flying was glamourous. One would wear a suit and tie, and get to the airport early to enjoy a silver service meal in a beautiful restaurant over looking the runway. At the specified departure time, the engines would be started by the flight engineers and then the captain would arrive, pull on his white gloves, and ceremonially accept the aircraft. Then the adventure began! Day one, Croydon to Le Bourget and then Rome and on to Brindisi. Overnight, then Athens, Alexandria and Cairo. One was accomodated at only the finest hotels, of course, many built specifically by the airline. One wore white tie for dinner, naturally. From Cairo there was a long hop to Delhi, then Calcutta, where one might break one's journey and catch up with old chums serving in the Raj. There would be great excitement if an invitation could be obtained to a ball at the governer's mansion.

Now slobs like you wear nylon football shirts on their pilgrimages to hellholes like Mgaluf and Dubai :-(

I remember sitting at the back of the plane to Dublin and smoking my fücking head off. :cloud9:

Weird to think there are grown adults who've never even seen that.

[Sir C]

I remember sitting at the back of the plane to Dublin and smoking my fücking head off. :cloud9:

Weird to think there are grown adults who've never even seen that.

:hehe: There was that 30 minute gap between reaching the boarding gate and the aircraft taking off when you couldn't smoke, and in the climb out, everyone would be poised, fag in hand, desperately waiting for the 'no smoking' light to go out :hehe:

[Burney]

:hehe: There was that 30 minute gap between reaching the boarding gate and the aircraft taking off when you couldn't smoke, and in the climb out, everyone would be poised, fag in hand, desperately waiting for the 'no smoking' light to go out :hehe:

:hehe: Try it now and you'd be handcuffed for the duration and be dragged off by coppers. Bizarre.

I can think of few things as weird/sinister in my lifetime than the way in which such a relatively innocuous act has been criminalised and demonised. Terrifying, when you think about it. Now they're after plain packaging on booze :rolleyes:

[redgunamo]

I remember sitting at the back of the plane to Dublin and smoking my fücking head off. :cloud9:

Weird to think there are grown adults who've never even seen that.

Yes, Sir C's Kenya Airways still offers that gallant accomodation, so I gather.

[Sir C]

Yes, Sir C's Kenya Airways still offers that gallant accomodation, so I gather.

They certainly didn't last year.

Mind you, when upon arrival I lit a cigarette at Jomo Kenyatta, a chap apologetically pointed towards a no smoking sign and then ushered me through an open door onto the tarmac where it was fine to smoke, right next to the fuel bowser.

[Sir C]

:hehe: Try it now and you'd be handcuffed for the duration and be dragged off by coppers. Bizarre.

I can think of few things as weird/sinister in my lifetime than the way in which such a relatively innocuous act has been criminalised and demonised. Terrifying, when you think about it. Now they're after plain packaging on booze :rolleyes:

Well the fight back has begun. Who knows, in a few years time, under President Trump and prime minister Farage's guidance, we might once again be allowed to make decisions for ourselves, rather than have the State instruct us when we may smoke, drink or fart. I expect prime minister Wilders will add his support.

[redgunamo]

They certainly didn't last year.

Mind you, when upon arrival I lit a cigarette at Jomo Kenyatta, a chap apologetically pointed towards a no smoking sign and then ushered me through an open door onto the tarmac where it was fine to smoke, right next to the fuel bowser.

:hehe: Africans, you see. Naive.

[Sir C]

:hehe: Africans, you see. Naive.

It wasn't much of a surprise when the airport burnt down a couple of years ago, I confess.

I love African airports. You know there's always the chance that this corrugated iron shed will look like paradise when you run into it to get on board the last flight out with the rebels not far up the road. Except if it's Jomo Kenyatta, because by the time you'd got through the chaos and reached the check in desks, the coup would be very much over and done with.

[Ash]

Yeah, but for some reason the railways then were run as a zero sum game, so the corollary of that service was a cattle class an Indian peasant wouldn't take his goat on. Now, of course, you have the communistic alternative whereby first class is barely distinguishable from standard.

The standard rail travel is probably smoother, quieter and more comfortable now than first class ever used to be. Overall standards have been dragged up, not down. Unless you forget what trains were actually like in the 70s. :hehe:

Anyway, the main point of first class was always about having more space to yourself, surely.

[redgunamo]

It wasn't much of a surprise when the airport burnt down a couple of years ago, I confess.

I love African airports. You know there's always the chance that this corrugated iron shed will look like paradise when you run into it to get on board the last flight out with the rebels not far up the road. Except if it's Jomo Kenyatta, because by the time you'd got through the chaos and reached the check in desks, the coup would be very much over and done with.

Chileka is my favourite, with the departure lounge and its open balcony overlooking the runway.

[World's End Stella]

:hehe: There was that 30 minute gap between reaching the boarding gate and the aircraft taking off when you couldn't smoke, and in the climb out, everyone would be poised, fag in hand, desperately waiting for the 'no smoking' light to go out :hehe:

Just another way that flying is so much better now. I bet those slobs in nylon football shirts are almost all 'dying for a fag' when they get off the plane.

[World's End Stella]

:hehe: Try it now and you'd be handcuffed for the duration and be dragged off by coppers. Bizarre.

I can think of few things as weird/sinister in my lifetime than the way in which such a relatively innocuous act has been criminalised and demonised. Terrifying, when you think about it. Now they're after plain packaging on booze :rolleyes:

A relatively innocuous act that kills thousands of people every year? Wow, that's an interesting view of innocuous.

And even if you deny the statistics re second hand smoke, smoking stinks. It smells. People who smoke stink of stale tobacco, it's disgusting.

I fail to see why I should smell just because someone else is addicted to nicotine. Poor manners, that's all it is.

[Pat Vegas]

Not true for air travel, I think. I can remember flying economy when the food was utterly inedible and your only entertainment was a good book or, if you were lucky, a decent view of a small telly at the front of your section which showed one movie. Even business class back then was just a larger seat and slightly better food.

Nowadays even economy passengers get their own telly with an extensive entertainment system and the food is decent and enjoyable. Business class is unlimited alcohol, flat beds, a bar to sit around etc etc

Air travel has never been better imo.

Don't fly Westjet's new London to Toronto route then.

No entertainment. you can rent a tablet though :-(

[Pat Vegas]

Chileka is my favourite, with the departure lounge and its open balcony overlooking the runway.

Chileka is modd's least favourite squard.

[Sir C]

Chileka is my favourite, with the departure lounge and its open balcony overlooking the runway.

Oh, my absolute favourite is Mwanza, on the shore of Lake Victoria, where my chartered Caravan stopped en route from Kigali to a strip in the Serengeti to clear Tanzanian immigration. Once the immigration officer had been found and woken, he looked at our passports, beamed, said, 'Karibu in Tanzania' and handed them back. I suggested that he really needed to put a visa stamp in them, but he advised sadly that he hadn't been issued with such a stamp and couldn't help. Some negotiation and an amount of contemplative smoking ensued, until eventually he pain-stakingly wrote 'Admitted to Tanzania for Touristic purposes' in them, finished off with a signature of some flourish. We parted the best of chums.

Oddly, he wasn't trying for a tip. He really didn't have a stamp. :hehe:

[Burney]

A relatively innocuous act that kills thousands of people every year? Wow, that's an interesting view of innocuous.

And even if you deny the statistics re second hand smoke, smoking stinks. It smells. People who smoke stink of stale tobacco, it's disgusting.

I fail to see why I should smell just because someone else is addicted to nicotine. Poor manners, that's all it is.

'Second hand smoking' doesn't exist. It was a total lie used to introduce a ban that has been thoroughly debunked. Mind you, when did bullies ever need real justifications to force their vicious self-righteousness on others?
Smokers kill themselves - no doubt about it. But who the fück are you to tell them they shouldn't? Lots of people kill themselves in lots of ways and unless they directly affect you (and no, 'my clothes smell funny!' doesn't count as a serious impact), shut the fück up and leave them to it.
Give me the smell of cigarette smoke over the prating of a bully clothing themselves in the armour of self-righteousness any day of the week.

[Pokster]

'Second hand smoking' doesn't exist. It was a total lie used to introduce a ban that has been thoroughly debunked. Mind you, when did bullies ever need real justifications to force their vicious self-righteousness on others?
Smokers kill themselves - no doubt about it. But who the fück are you to tell them they shouldn't? Lots of people kill themselves in lots of ways and unless they directly affect you (and no, 'my clothes smell funny!' doesn't count as a serious impact), shut the fück up and leave them to it.
Give me the smell of cigarette smoke over the prating of a bully clothing themselves in the armour of self-righteousness any day of the week.

I assume you want smoking in pubs etc brought back in then?

Going to the pub is much more enjoyable now that you don't have to cut yoru way through the smog.... air travel is much better than it used to be for the same reason

[Burney]

I assume you want smoking in pubs etc brought back in then?

Going to the pub is much more enjoyable now that you don't have to cut yoru way through the smog.... air travel is much better than it used to be for the same reason

No. YOU think it's better. Stop assuming everyone thinks as you do.

Personally, I think pubs are much worse now, as they're full of the sort of people who were put off by fag smoke.

[Pat Vegas]

I assume you want smoking in pubs etc brought back in then?

Going to the pub is much more enjoyable now that you don't have to cut yoru way through the smog.... air travel is much better than it used to be for the same reason

Nah it's rubbish. Everyone stands outside the whole time.

Even the non smokers end up out there which is odd.

The want to get rid of them now they stand with them outside.
because the smokers are the exciting ones imo.

[Pokster]

No. YOU think it's better. Stop assuming everyone thinks as you do.

Personally, I think pubs are much worse now, as they're full of the sort of people who were put off by fag smoke.

OK, I think it's better and I would be shocked if the majority of people also feel it is better...... was even worse going out for a meal and someone smoking at the table next to you

[Sir C]

OK, I think it's better and I would be shocked if the majority of people also feel it is better...... was even worse going out for a meal and someone smoking at the table next to you

Mate, you don't drink. You're not really in a position to lecture anyone on the joys of a night out.

[Sir C]

OK, I think it's better and I would be shocked if the majority of people also feel it is better...... was even worse going out for a meal and someone smoking at the table next to you

And anyway, in the places you eat out, you'd never notice cigarette smoke over the smell of the deep fat fryers, would you?

[Pokster]

Mate, you don't drink. You're not really in a position to lecture anyone on the joys of a night out.

Wow, didn't realise than non drinkers weren't allowed to go out... so sorry

[Pokster]

And anyway, in the places you eat out, you'd never notice cigarette smoke over the smell of the deep fat fryers, would you?

hahahaha :-| A northern stereotype, never fails to raise a laugh :rolleyes:

[Sir C]

hahahaha :-| A northern stereotype, never fails to raise a laugh :rolleyes:

:shrug: I wasn't suggesting anything to do with the north. I know lots of lovely restaurants in the north. I was talking about the sort of places you eat out in.

[Pokster]

:shrug: I wasn't suggesting anything to do with the north. I know lots of lovely restaurants in the north. I was talking about the sort of places you eat out in.

hmmmmm... you might be correct if the kids are with us

[Sir C]

hmmmmm... you might be correct if the kids are with us

I stopped at the services at the M6/A66 junction for breakfast, expecting a motorway services breakfast. It turned out to be one of the most memorable breakfasts of my life. There was also an incredibly posh farm shop and a lovely-looking hotel.

I'm still slightly unsure about whether I might have dreamt it.

[Burney]

I stopped at the services at the M6/A66 junction for breakfast, expecting a motorway services breakfast. It turned out to be one of the most memorable breakfasts of my life. There was also an incredibly posh farm shop and a lovely-looking hotel.

I'm still slightly unsure about whether I might have dreamt it.

Tebay. No that's real. I think it's the only independent service station in the country.

[Sir C]

Tebay. No that's real. I think it's the only independent service station in the country.

That's the one. Proper sausages, proper thick cut bacon, the whole thing was fúcking amazing.

[Burney]

That's the one. Proper sausages, proper thick cut bacon, the whole thing was fúcking amazing.

I deplore the failure of supermarkets to cut bacon of sufficient thickness.
Obviously my butcher is a thief who in another time would be suspended from a gibbet for his outrageous profiteering, but I must admit he does at least know how to cure and cut bacon.

[World's End Stella]

No. YOU think it's better. Stop assuming everyone thinks as you do.

Comparing someone being forced to breath in smoke which is damaging to their health and then having to go home stinking of cigarette smoke, to being forced to listen to someone espouse a view you disagree with is disingenuous nonsense of the highest order. You'll be comparing it to having to breath in the fumes from my car next. :hehe:

In my experience, the overwhelming majority of people, including smokers, now agree that pubs and restaurants are much more pleasant places. Banning smoking from pubs and restaurants was the right thing to do on every level, I'm afraid you lost this one Burney.

[Luis Anaconda]

Comparing someone being forced to breath in smoke which is damaging to their health and then having to go home stinking of cigarette smoke, to being forced to listen to someone espouse a view you disagree with is disingenuous nonsense of the highest order. You'll be comparing it to having to breath in the fumes from my car next. :hehe:

In my experience, the overwhelming majority of people, including smokers, now agree that pubs and restaurants are much more pleasant places. Banning smoking from pubs and restaurants was the right thing to do on every level, I'm afraid you lost this one Burney.
I think the point was that pubs aren't supposed to be "pleasant" places

[World's End Stella]

I think the point was that pubs aren't supposed to be "pleasant" places

If that was the point, it was a really stupid one