Another thing. Would it be too much to ask for Petr Cech to

[Monty92]

save a F*CKING penalty, like, ever?

Has he actually saved one for us since joining? We concede about one in every two games...

[PSRB]

save a F*CKING penalty, like, ever?

Has he actually saved one for us since joining? We concede about one in every two games...

He's not saved any of his last 13 (and not even looked like saving one). They showed Wilson's heat map of his previous pens and it was pretty bloody obvious he was going to go down the middle

Watched Goals on Sunday the other week and Chris Kirkland said that he felt he had to dive otherwise everyone would say he didn't even try to save it, wonder if players realise this now as sure more pens are being placed in the middle than they ever were

[Ash]

save a F*CKING penalty, like, ever?

Has he actually saved one for us since joining? We concede about one in every two games...

Drop him imo. Beaten twice at his near post. Who does he think he his, Manuel Almunia? Give the Columbian a go.

[Rich]

He's not saved any of his last 13 (and not even looked like saving one). They showed Wilson's heat map of his previous pens and it was pretty bloody obvious he was going to go down the middle

Watched Goals on Sunday the other week and Chris Kirkland said that he felt he had to dive otherwise everyone would say he didn't even try to save it, wonder if players realise this now as sure more pens are being placed in the middle than they ever were

I think a lot of players tend to watch the keeper go one way or another and then just hit it slightly to the left/right depending on the way they're diving. One assumes that if the keeper stands still, they have a corner in mind to hit it.

[PSRB]

I think a lot of players tend to watch the keeper go one way or another and then just hit it slightly to the left/right depending on the way they're diving. One assumes that if the keeper stands still, they have a corner in mind to hit it.

I think most players have made their mind up what they're doing before they hit it. Baines certainly does, probably why he's rather good at it

[Ash]

I think most players have made their mind up what they're doing before they hit it. Baines certainly does, probably why he's rather good at it

Le Tissier said he would visualise where it was going to go before taking it, and then put it there.

[Rich]

Le Tissier said he would visualise where it was going to go before taking it, and then put it there.

I mean in the modern game. You see so many penalties scored these days where the ball goes left/right centre and the keeper dives full length the other way. If you're good it at and well practiced enough, you can be sure that you'll score virtually all of your penalties.

[Burney]

Le Tissier said he would visualise where it was going to go before taking it, and then put it there.

I think the key to being a great penalty-taker is having limited intelligence and no imagination or spontaneity. This is why James Milner is a very good penalty taker.

[Pat Vegas]

save a F*CKING penalty, like, ever?

Has he actually saved one for us since joining? We concede about one in every two games...

I read he hasn't saved one for 6 years. But I wasn't paying attention.

I am not so sure of the rebounds he gives away too.

[Pat Vegas]

Le Tissier said he would visualise where it was going to go before taking it, and then put it there.

I visualise being loaded but yet to happen. I will just put it there.

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

save a F*CKING penalty, like, ever?

Has he actually saved one for us since joining? We concede about one in every two games...


These extra 10-15 points a season that he is meant to save us...... I can't think of too many occasions where he has really done that this season. Sure he has been solid and saved pretty much everything you would expect him to save but has be pulled the proverbial rabbits out of the hat over and above an Ospina or even a Chesney?

[PSRB]

These extra 10-15 points a season that he is meant to save us...... I can't think of too many occasions where he has really done that this season. Sure he has been solid and saved pretty much everything you would expect him to save but has be pulled the proverbial rabbits out of the hat over and above an Ospina or even a Chesney?

Boro he had a blinder and definitely saved us a point and there were a couple of games around that time where he played really well but yes, I do think Ospina deserves a chance

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

Boro he had a blinder and definitely saved us a point and there were a couple of games around that time where he played really well but yes, I do think Ospina deserves a chance

Good point re:the Boro game. I think one of those saves was a blinder but most of them were regulation weren't they?

[World's End Stella]

Honestly you lot amaze me sometimes.

Bellerin and Mustafi were hopeless, most of midfield utterly anonymous, Ramsey was played in the Ozil role and didnt do a single thing of any note that wasn't bad, for 60 minutes Giroud barely touched the ball and the entire team lacked focus and seemed completely unprepared for Bournemouth. Not Madrid, not Barcelona, not Munich, Bournemouth.

And you think Cech is a problem? Jesus lord.

[Monty92]

Honestly you lot amaze me sometimes.

Bellerin and Mustafi were hopeless, most of midfield utterly anonymous, Ramsey was played in the Ozil role and didnt do a single thing of any note that wasn't bad, for 60 minutes Giroud barely touched the ball and the entire team lacked focus and seemed completely unprepared for Bournemouth. Not Madrid, not Barcelona, not Munich, Bournemouth.

And you think Cech is a problem? Jesus lord.

Wenger seemed to think we were leeetle bit jaded and had knocks from the Palace game. Says that we had 3-4 players who were simply not match fit, including Bellerin. The reason Ox started on the bench was because he couldn't risk having all of our knackered/injured players starting, as he had no idea which of them would last the distance and need to come off.

Not sure how other teams have done with the two games in three days schedule.

[Pokster]

Wenger seemed to think we were leeetle bit jaded and had knocks from the Palace game. Says that we had 3-4 players who were simply not match fit, including Bellerin. The reason Ox started on the bench was because he couldn't risk having all of our knackered/injured players starting, as he had no idea which of them would last the distance and need to come off.

Not sure how other teams have done with the two games in three days schedule.

Palace lost Watford lost

[Monty92]

Palace lost Watford lost

See! Wenger IN!!!!!!11111111!!!!!

[SWv2]

Palace lost Watford lost

To be fair Palace and Watford also lost on sunday, so their excuse is not related to being jaded, simply being ****.

[World's End Stella]

See! Wenger IN!!!!!!11111111!!!!!

The team that seemed to have far more energy than us played a massive 24 hours before we did and have spent a fraction of the money on their squad that we have on ours. And if fatigue was the issue, why did we get so much better after 60 minutes of football?

Did Vic Akers pass around the Mo Farah juice and no one noticed?

[SWv2]

The team that seemed to have far more energy than us played a massive 24 hours before we did and have spent a fraction of the money on their squad that we have on ours. And if fatigue was the issue, why did we get so much better after 60 minutes of football?

Did Vic Akers pass around the Mo Farah juice and no one noticed?

Indeed, well said that man.

We both know jaded and/or fatigue is just manager *******s used as an excuse to deflect attention.

[Ash]

And if fatigue was the issue, why did we get so much better after 60 minutes of football?


Bournmouth got tired. They'd been pressing hard which we can't cope with.

[Burney]

Indeed, well said that man.

We both know jaded and/or fatigue is just manager *******s used as an excuse to deflect attention.

Come, come! No denying our first half performance was woeful, but to ignore the difference an extra day's rest can have is simply silly. Playing a game two days after the last one simply oughtn't to happen to any team.

[eastgermanautos]

Come, come! No denying our first half performance was woeful, but to ignore the difference an extra day's rest can have is simply silly. Playing a game two days after the last one simply oughtn't to happen to any team.

We plainly did not have energy for the fight in the opening stages. I mean we were completely waxed. It's a good point and to argue otherwise is foolish. Chelsea just has to lose a couple games, go off the boil. They are sh!t-hot right now, as evidenced by their last game. Can't-do-anything-wrong mode.

[PSRB]

Come, come! No denying our first half performance was woeful, but to ignore the difference an extra day's rest can have is simply silly. Playing a game two days after the last one simply oughtn't to happen to any team.

:nod: Completely, simply can't recover fully both mentally and physically. Worth noting that Bournemouth ran an additional 9K to our players (and with 10 men for 15 minutes). We got a goal and Bournemouth got jittery. I believe its now 10 days to a PL match, so plenty of time to recover and get 9 points from next 3 games before the big one at Chelsea

[Ash]

:nod: Completely, simply can't recover fully both mentally and physically. Worth noting that Bournemouth ran an additional 9K to our players (and with 10 men for 15 minutes). We got a goal and Bournemouth got jittery. I believe its now 10 days to a PL match, so plenty of time to recover and get 9 points from next 3 games before the big one at Chelsea

Of these six winnables that was always going to be the toughest. Win the next three and that's not a bad haul. We're clearly not good enough to win the title, and when Chelsea win over a dozen games in a row that's a title-winning run and you just have to say well done.

[World's End Stella]

:nod: Completely, simply can't recover fully both mentally and physically. Worth noting that Bournemouth ran an additional 9K to our players (and with 10 men for 15 minutes). We got a goal and Bournemouth got jittery. I believe its now 10 days to a PL match, so plenty of time to recover and get 9 points from next 3 games before the big one at Chelsea

So the additional days rest is enough to provide a significant advantage but not so much that it would overcome the jitters associated with going from 3-0 up to 3-1 up?

Sorry mate, I'm seeing some serious holes in this theory.

[Burney]

So the additional days rest is enough to provide a significant advantage but not so much that it would overcome the jitters associated with going from 3-0 up to 3-1 up?

Sorry mate, I'm seeing some serious holes in this theory.

As their energy levels dropped to somewhere nearer ours, the superiority of our players and squad started to make a difference and we were able to get back into the game. :shrug:

[World's End Stella]

Come, come! No denying our first half performance was woeful, but to ignore the difference an extra day's rest can have is simply silly. Playing a game two days after the last one simply oughtn't to happen to any team.

So the question that was raised was that if the additional day's rest put us at a disadvantage, why did we improve significantly after 60 minutes of football? If anything, I would expect that we should have started more strongly and then faded as the game went on.

[PSRB]

So the additional days rest is enough to provide a significant advantage but not so much that it would overcome the jitters associated with going from 3-0 up to 3-1 up?

Sorry mate, I'm seeing some serious holes in this theory.

Alongside the fact we have better players and as Ash says, they'd been pressing (and covering a considerable additional distance) for the whole game

I don't really see how it's that hard to fathom that an additional 24 hrs rest, especially over a congested period of football, must be of considerable benefit.

[Burney]

So the question that was raised was that if the additional day's rest put us at a disadvantage, why did we improve significantly after 60 minutes of football? If anything, I would expect that we should have started more strongly and then faded as the game went on.

This is really quite simple. They had more energy at the start of the game and came at us hard, covering more ground and reaping the rewards. However, as they inevitably tired to match our level of f*ckedness, the superiority of our players and depth of our squad told and we got back into the game.

[World's End Stella]

Alongside the fact we have better players and as Ash says, they'd been pressing (and covering a considerable additional distance) for the whole game

I don't really see how it's that hard to fathom that an additional 24 hrs rest, especially over a congested period of football, must be of considerable benefit.

It is a benefit, no question. Considerable? That depends on your definition.

I didn't see a team with more energy take a 3 nil lead over a tired team. Had I seen that, I never would expect us to come back to 3-3 as we did.

I saw an unprepared team who lacked focus and who didn't seem to know how to handle a much less talented team pressing them. I saw two very good players (Bellerin and Mustafi) have off days one of whom (Mustafi) was just back from injury and hadn't played in the previous match. In fact, Hector has only just returned as well so I would expect him to be able to handle 2 games in 3 days, especially at his age. I saw some poor performances from players who have been poor too often (Ramsey, Iwobi) to merit a place in the team on a regular basis but who continue to get played anyway.

In short, I saw Arsenal of the past 10 years, not a team that dropped two points because they were tired.

[Pokster]

So the question that was raised was that if the additional day's rest put us at a disadvantage, why did we improve significantly after 60 minutes of football? If anything, I would expect that we should have started more strongly and then faded as the game went on.

If you don't think that and extra 28 hrs rest helps then you know nothing about football... oh

[SWv2]

I don't really see how it's that hard to fathom that an additional 24 hrs rest, especially over a congested period of football, must be of considerable benefit.

The congested argument is *******s, sorry.

Prior to Sunday we had last played on the 26th so 6 full days rest and then before that another 6 days to the City game.

48 hours between the Palace match was not ideal but to use it as an excuse for that pitiful first 70 minute performance last night is wrong. Perhaps a factor among others but not a sole reason for such a poor show.

[PSRB]

It is a benefit, no question. Considerable? That depends on your definition.

I didn't see a team with more energy take a 3 nil lead over a tired team. Had I seen that, I never would expect us to come back to 3-3 as we did.

I saw an unprepared team who lacked focus and who didn't seem to know how to handle a much less talented team pressing them. I saw two very good players (Bellerin and Mustafi) have off days one of whom (Mustafi) was just back from injury and hadn't played in the previous match. In fact, Hector has only just returned as well so I would expect him to be able to handle 2 games in 3 days, especially at his age. I saw some poor performances from players who have been poor too often (Ramsey, Iwobi) to merit a place in the team on a regular basis but who continue to get played anyway.

In short, I saw Arsenal of the past 10 years, not a team that dropped two points because they were tired.

Bellerin was playing with ankle injury, apparently and the Ox was originally on the bench as he had a knock as well........granted one could rightly say, then why bring the Ox on rather than Perez?!

[World's End Stella]

The congested argument is *******s, sorry.

Prior to Sunday we had last played on the 26th so 6 full days rest and then before that another 6 days to the City game.

48 hours between the Palace match was not ideal but to use it as an excuse for that pitiful first 70 minute performance last night is wrong. Perhaps a factor among others but not a sole reason for such a poor show.

Quite. You might also point out that of the 10 outfield players who started the Bournemouth match, only 6 started the Palace match.

There were plenty of reasons that we dropped two points, the disadvantage of having played a day later than our opponent was one of them, but a very, very small one based on the evidence of how the game actually played out.

[Burney]

The congested argument is *******s, sorry.

Prior to Sunday we had last played on the 26th so 6 full days rest and then before that another 6 days to the City game.

48 hours between the Palace match was not ideal but to use it as an excuse for that pitiful first 70 minute performance last night is wrong. Perhaps a factor among others but not a sole reason for such a poor show.

How long we had before the Palace game is irrelevant to the fact that we had no recovery time from the previous game, I'm afraid. That's like saying that the fact that you hadn't run a marathon for months makes it fine to do two in two days. That's not how the human body works.

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

Honestly you lot amaze me sometimes.

Bellerin and Mustafi were hopeless, most of midfield utterly anonymous, Ramsey was played in the Ozil role and didnt do a single thing of any note that wasn't bad, for 60 minutes Giroud barely touched the ball and the entire team lacked focus and seemed completely unprepared for Bournemouth. Not Madrid, not Barcelona, not Munich, Bournemouth.

And you think Cech is a problem? Jesus lord.


If that is what was being said then you would be right but it isn't therefore, you are wrong!

[World's End Stella]

How long we had before the Palace game is irrelevant to the fact that we had no recovery time from the previous game, I'm afraid. That's like saying that the fact that you hadn't run a marathon for months makes it fine to do two in two days. That's not how the human body works.

We actually had approximately 49.45 hours recovery time between the end of the Palace game and the beginning of the Bournemouth game which is slightly more than 'no recovery time'. Bournemouth had approximately 74.45 hours. Although you would have to adjust that based on the number of players who started both games for both teams, if you wanted to be strictly accurate.

However, as you can see from the posts above, it would be a waste of time because no one is saying that there is no impact, the point that is being made is that the impact of the additional days rest does not justify the poor play from Arsenal for the first 60-70 minutes nor the fact that we dropped 2 points to a team with far less talent than ourselves.

[SWv2]

How long we had before the Palace game is irrelevant to the fact that we had no recovery time from the previous game, I'm afraid.

We had 48 hours B, not "no recovery time" as you say.

Not ideal as I have stressed but not a complete handicap either.

[Burney]

We actually had approximately 49.45 hours recovery time between the end of the Palace game and the beginning of the Bournemouth game which is slightly more than 'no recovery time'. Bournemouth had approximately 74.45 hours. Although you would have to adjust that based on the number of players who started both games for both teams, if you wanted to be strictly accurate.

However, as you can see from the posts above, it would be a waste of time because no one is saying that there is no impact, the point that is being made is that the impact of the additional days rest does not justify the poor play from Arsenal for the first 60-70 minutes nor the fact that we dropped 2 points to a team with far less talent than ourselves.

I don't think anyone is suggesting it excuses anything completely, merely that it is a serious mitigating factor with a demonstrable impact on the outcome of the game. No-one can seriously believe that, if the two sides had equal time between games, Arsenal's first half performance would have been as bad as it was.

And if you don't believe that, you are effectively conceding that the lack of recovery time played a large part in costing us those two points.

[Burney]

We had 48 hours B, not "no recovery time" as you say.

Not ideal as I have stressed but not a complete handicap either.

Well no handicap is 'complete' in a sporting sense - that's the point of handicaps, they are designed to level the field when there is one manifestly superior performer. What this handicap did was bring our fitness, availability and stamina down to a level that lessened or even negated the impact of our generally superior players, allowing Bournemouth to take advantage - at least until they became tired, at which point our advantage was restored.

[PSRB]

We had 48 hours B, not "no recovery time" as you say.

Not ideal as I have stressed but not a complete handicap either.

There is a reason Europa League sides don't play on the Saturday having played on a Thursday, mind you, they're still usually **** on the Sunday

[World's End Stella]

No-one can seriously believe that, if the two sides had equal time between games, Arsenal's first half performance would have been as bad as it was.

Oh I absolutely believe that, mostly because I have seen this happen to us so many times before. A less talented team (Southampton from a few years back comes to mind, Spurs not so long ago, Liverpool* first game of this season) presses us and we are unable to handle it, lose our composure and put in an appalling first half performance. Second half we come out and settle and eventually begin wearing them down and come back into the game. And this happens with identical rest periods prior to the game.

That's why I'm not buying the fatigue argument, Burney. Last night wasn't anything new.

* yes, I consider Liverpool to be less talented than Arsenal, league position aside

[World's End Stella]

Well no handicap is 'complete' in a sporting sense - that's the point of handicaps, they are designed to level the field when there is one manifestly superior performer. What this handicap did was bring our fitness, availability and stamina down to a level that lessened or even negated the impact of our generally superior players, allowing Bournemouth to take advantage - at least until they became tired, at which point our advantage was restored.

I have to say, Burney, I find this idea that Bournemouth got tired but we didn't to be disingenuous at the very least. While I appreciate that they were working harder than us, it's not like Arsenal were standing around breathing in oxygen and receiving massages while Bournemouth ran about. We were also putting in a significant amount of effort and if we really were at that much of an advantage I would have expected us to really struggle second half.

And how many times do you see teams press other teams and then get tired and the other team weathers the storm and then gets back into it? That happens all the time, and it happened last night, so I fail to see that the initial additional fatigue really had much of an impact.

[Burney]

I have to say, Burney, I find this idea that Bournemouth got tired but we didn't to be disingenuous at the very least. While I appreciate that they were working harder than us, it's not like Arsenal were standing around breathing in oxygen and receiving massages while Bournemouth ran about. We were also putting in a significant amount of effort and if we really were at that much of an advantage I would have expected us to really struggle second half.

And how many times do you see teams press other teams and then get tired and the other team weathers the storm and then gets back into it? That happens all the time, and it happened last night, so I fail to see that the initial additional fatigue really had much of an impact.

Nowhere have I said that we got tired but Bournemouth didn't. I've simply said that Bournemouth coming fast out of the blocks and running much more than us took so much out them that, by the final third of the game, they were shot and their physical advantage had decreased to the extent that our players' innate technical superiority was able to assert itself and restore our inherent advantage.

[Burney]

Oh I absolutely believe that, mostly because I have seen this happen to us so many times before. A less talented team (Southampton from a few years back comes to mind, Spurs not so long ago, Liverpool* first game of this season) presses us and we are unable to handle it, lose our composure and put in an appalling first half performance. Second half we come out and settle and eventually begin wearing them down and come back into the game. And this happens with identical rest periods prior to the game.

That's why I'm not buying the fatigue argument, Burney. Last night wasn't anything new.

* yes, I consider Liverpool to be less talented than Arsenal, league position aside

Your argument is all over the place here. First of all, you seem to suggest that the fact that we have been caught cold in the past constitutes evidence that an obvious mitigating factor cannot apply. That is clearly nonsense akin to suggesting that, because you have seen someone driving badly once or twice in the past, there can be no possibility that their accident can have any causes other than them simply being a bad driver.
Second, your suggestion that Bournemouth are a comparable team in terms of ability to Liverpool and Spurs is just silly. And Southampton, I would point out (who are closer to Bournemouth in ability, but still superior) beat us in that game also over the congested Christmas period when fatigue was a factor.
Elsewhere, you seem to have suggested that, because a number of players starting yesterday did not start against Palace, that the lack of rest was again not an issue in our performance. This conveniently ignores the fact that having to choose squad players rather than first choices is just as much of a direct disadvantage conferred by the 48-hour gap as the tiredness of those players who did start.

[SWv2]

There are indeed lots of factors that can influence and decide football matches – quality of players, quality of preparation and tactics, individual moments of brilliance or indeed the opposite and even intangible things which we often like to mock and dismiss such as the much vaunted issue of desire which can manifest itself in many ways.

I see someone (PRSB?) pointed out earlier how stats wise they covered a cumulative distance of greater than 8-9k more than us. Sounds a lot but it isn’t really when you average it out over 10-12 outfield players.

I also see that one of their players (Gosling) himself covered over 14k last night, the highest on record for any player in the league this season. An extra 24 hours rest, or simply a desire and willingness to run his little south coast *******s off for the team?

I would suggest the latter based on the fact that their players on average covered a greater distance than any other PL team. Desire again, a willingness to work very hard to overcome perhaps a technical deficiency on other better teams.

We actually had greater possession than them, more passes completed yet not one shot on target in the opening 45 minutes. That is not fatigue, just plain and simply playing ****.

No invention, no creation, no Ozil, an off-key Sanchez, midfielders allowing opposition players to run past them, a keeper who we all know to be brilliant but increasingly has us shaking our heads, too many Oxlade Chamberlains on the pitch, Giroud being the utterly useless ******** Giroud that we all know for the first 70 minutes, utterly ****ing abysmal.

Or just fatigue.

We've seen it many times before.

[Burney]

There are indeed lots of factors that can influence and decide football matches – quality of players, quality of preparation and tactics, individual moments of brilliance or indeed the opposite and even intangible things which we often like to mock and dismiss such as the much vaunted issue of desire which can manifest itself in many ways.

I see someone (PRSB?) pointed out earlier how stats wise they covered a cumulative distance of greater than 8-9k more than us. Sounds a lot but it isn’t really when you average it out over 10-12 outfield players.

I also see that one of their players (Gosling) himself covered over 14k last night, the highest on record for any player in the league this season. An extra 24 hours rest, or simply a desire and willingness to run his little south coast *******s off for the team?

I would suggest the latter based on the fact that their players on average covered a greater distance than any other PL team. Desire again, a willingness to work very hard to overcome perhaps a technical deficiency on other better teams.

We actually had greater possession than them, more passes completed yet not one shot on target in the opening 45 minutes. That is not fatigue, just plain and simply playing ****.

No invention, no creation, no Ozil, an off-key Sanchez, midfielders allowing opposition players to run past them, a keeper who we all know to be brilliant but increasingly has us shaking our heads, too many Oxlade Chamberlains on the pitch, Giroud being the utterly useless ******** Giroud that we all know for the first 70 minutes, utterly ****ing abysmal.

Or just fatigue.

We've seen it many times before.

Do you not agree that fatigue is the most likely reason why a team of talented players might underperform, though? And that that underperformance in turn will spur on the opposition?

You can't just say it's all down to 'playing shït' and nothing to do with tiredness. I would suggest that that Venn diagram involves rather too much crossover for such an analysis to stand up to scrutiny.

[World's End Stella]

Your argument is all over the place here. First of all, you seem to suggest that the fact that we have been caught cold in the past constitutes evidence that an obvious mitigating factor cannot apply. That is clearly nonsense akin to suggesting that, because you have seen someone driving badly once or twice in the past, there can be no possibility that their accident can have any causes other than them simply being a bad driver.


I suggested nothing of the kind. I said that because I have seen us struggle before in similar circumstances and based on the way the game played out, I saw nothing that made me think that the additional fatigue had a significant impact on the outcome. Your assertion that I suggested that no mitigating factor could be applied is an enormous logical leap.


Second, your suggestion that Bournemouth are a comparable team in terms of ability to Liverpool and Spurs is just silly.

I didn't suggest that at all, I listed three teams of lesser ability than Arsenal, I never compared their ability. Another enormous logical leap. And the Southampton results I was referring to were two draws in the same season the last time Pochettino managed them as he had them playing a similar pressing style.


Elsewhere, you seem to have suggested that, because a number of players starting yesterday did not start against Palace, that the lack of rest was again not an issue in our performance. This conveniently ignores the fact that having to choose squad players rather than first choices is just as much of a direct disadvantage conferred by the 48-hour gap as the tiredness of those players who did start.

In which case the issue from an Arsenal perspective was not fatigue but a lack of squad depth, which most people would agree should not be an issue given the financial disparity between the clubs.

[Peter]

Your argument is all over the place here. First of all, you seem to suggest that the fact that we have been caught cold in the past constitutes evidence that an obvious mitigating factor cannot apply. That is clearly nonsense akin to suggesting that, because you have seen someone driving badly once or twice in the past, there can be no possibility that their accident can have any causes other than them simply being a bad driver.
Second, your suggestion that Bournemouth are a comparable team in terms of ability to Liverpool and Spurs is just silly. And Southampton, I would point out (who are closer to Bournemouth in ability, but still superior) beat us in that game also over the congested Christmas period when fatigue was a factor.
Elsewhere, you seem to have suggested that, because a number of players starting yesterday did not start against Palace, that the lack of rest was again not an issue in our performance. This conveniently ignores the fact that having to choose squad players rather than first choices is just as much of a direct disadvantage conferred by the 48-hour gap as the tiredness of those players who did start.

****ing hell...... this really is dragging on isn't it.

Look, the fact is we are more than capable of playing that badly every now and then without being tired or lacking recovery time. It is just something we do. Tiredness is mental as well as physical and the mental side affects concentration and, almost ashamed to admit it, desire. Knowing our players the fact that Wenger went on and on about the lack of recovery probably played on their mind and gave them an excuse (to some extent). Some of them simply don't have the right attitude and focus. The lack of recovery time might have been mitigated if the group of players who should have come in (Walcott, Gibbs, Ozil) were not injured or ill. Typical...

We don't really know why they played so badly night. It could be a combination of things and we have no real way of measuring the relative significance of each factor. Lets just agree that they are a bunch of useless ****s who belong in fourth place :D

Its good to be back.....

[World's End Stella]

****ing hell...... this really is dragging on isn't it.

Look, the fact is we are more than capable of playing that badly every now and then without being tired or lacking recovery time. It is just something we do. Tiredness is mental as well as physical and the mental side affects concentration and, almost ashamed to admit it, desire. Knowing our players the fact that Wenger went on and on about the lack of recovery probably played on their mind and gave them an excuse (to some extent). Some of them simply don't have the right attitude and focus. The lack of recovery time might have been mitigated if the group of players who should have come in (Walcott, Gibbs, Ozil) were not injured or ill. Typical...

We don't really know why they played so badly night. It could be a combination of things and we have no real way of measuring the relative significance of each factor. Lets just agree that they are a bunch of useless ****s who belong in fourth place :D

Its good to be back.....

Nicely stated. Welcome back, Peter. :thumbup:

[SWv2]

Do you not agree that fatigue is the most likely reason why a team of talented players might underperform, though? And that that underperformance in turn will spur on the opposition?

You can't just say it's all down to 'playing shït' and nothing to do with tiredness. I would suggest that that Venn diagram involves rather too much crossover for such an analysis to stand up to scrutiny.

No.

I am a very talented footballer but very often I just can’t be ****ing bothered and on such occasion my standards drop to just being better than most others.

Sometimes I am not even tired.

[Ash]

There are indeed lots of factors that can influence and decide football matches – quality of players, quality of preparation and tactics, individual moments of brilliance or indeed the opposite and even intangible things which we often like to mock and dismiss such as the much vaunted issue of desire which can manifest itself in many ways.


Jorge has gone. You can probably mention desire now without getting jumped on.

[SWv2]

Jorge has gone. You can probably mention desire now without getting jumped on.

Thank you A, he was exactly who was in my mind as I typed all that nonsense.

[Burney]

No.

I am a very talented footballer but very often I just can’t be ****ing bothered and on such occasion my standards drop to just being better than most others.

Sometimes I am not even tired.

Yes, but you are an amateur park player of advanced years with a fondness for the good things in life (and The Jam). We are talking about highly paid professional athletes in their teens and 20s who are constantly operating on the outer envelope of human physical performance. Such chaps, I would suggest, very rarely fall into the category of not being bothered.