****ing sick of playing these ****s every ****ing year.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

asdcjgcgjvbkvlbnb.bn,m

[Ash]

asdcjgcgjvbkvlbnb.bn,m

I now officially hate this stupid shítcùnt of a competition. :shout:

[Luis Anaconda]

asdcjgcgjvbkvlbnb.bn,m
*******s *******s *******s *******s

[Sir C]

asdcjgcgjvbkvlbnb.bn,m

Mind you, it's almost January and they haven't won the Bundesliga yet, so perhaps they are proper shíte nowadays?

[World's End Stella]

Are they nearly as good this year? I seem to recall reading something about Ancelotti being in trouble or some such

[Pat Vegas]

I now officially hate this stupid shítcùnt of a competition. :shout:

We have to beat them at some point.

We won't though and if we do somehow they'll fix the next round again.

[Monty92]

I now officially hate this stupid shítcùnt of a competition. :shout:

Don't be homo - we might beat them.

Just as we expect the Football Gods to take mercy and hand us an easier draw at some point, we may equally expect them to facilitate victory in a harder draw at some point too.

[Pokster]

Don't be homo - we might beat them.

Just as we expect the Football Gods to take mercy and hand us an easier draw at some point, we may equally expect them to facilitate victory in a harder draw at some point too.

All depends on the power of the sticky imo

[Luis Anaconda]

Are they nearly as good this year? I seem to recall reading something about Ancelotti being in trouble or some such
They've not been great but Ancelloti seems to have realised that picking a balanced team is better than trying to cram all the stars in

[Monty92]

All depends on the power of the sticky imo

Your mum said my sticky was so powerful she had to run the bedsheets through the wash twice, imo.

[Pat Vegas]

Don't be homo - we might beat them.

Just as we expect the Football Gods to take mercy and hand us an easier draw at some point, we may equally expect them to facilitate victory in a harder draw at some point too.

If we do beat them we will be rewarded with Barcelona.

[Ash]

Don't be homo - we might beat them.

Just as we expect the Football Gods to take mercy and hand us an easier draw at some point, we may equally expect them to facilitate victory in a harder draw at some point too.

They need to drop the rule about teams from the same country not meeting in the R.O.16. It skews the odds and make it statistically likely that the same clubs keep meeting each other. It's b-o-o-o-o-oring.

(And that rule is presumably there for commercial reasons.)

[redgunamo]

I now officially hate this stupid shítcùnt of a competition. :shout:

Just think about the money, imo.

[Luis Anaconda]

They need to drop the rule about teams from the same country not meeting in the R.O.16. It skews the odds and make it statistically likely that the same clubs keep meeting each other. It's b-o-o-o-o-oring.

(And that rule is presumably there for commercial reasons.)

I was saying the same thing recently. Ironically I think it is there because the didn't want higher familiarity factor in these last 16 matches

[redgunamo]

I was saying the same thing recently. Ironically I think it is there because the didn't want higher familiarity factor in these last 16 matches

Imagine drawing Chelsea every season though :-|

[Monty92]

They need to drop the rule about teams from the same country not meeting in the R.O.16. It skews the odds and make it statistically likely that the same clubs keep meeting each other. It's b-o-o-o-o-oring.

(And that rule is presumably there for commercial reasons.)

Boring? We've drawn them three times in the knock-out stage twice in 16 years!

We play Spurs twice a season - you must be bored to death of NLDs

[Pat Vegas]

Boring? We've drawn them three times in the knock-out stage twice in 16 years!

We play Spurs twice a season - you must be bored to death of NLDs

Actually I hate NLD's too these days.
We should just agree a draw for both fixtures and be done with it.

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

asdcjgcgjvbkvlbnb.bn,m

We just have to be more organized, more disciplined and have some belief. We're fully capable of beating them if we approach the game with a greater degree of sensibility. Let us see if playing the away leg first helps us in any way.

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

Don't be homo - we might beat them.

Just as we expect the Football Gods to take mercy and hand us an easier draw at some point, we may equally expect them to facilitate victory in a harder draw at some point too.

They handed us the plum option of Monaco in one year and we royally f*cked that up in the 1st leg. One should not underestimate our ability to thrill as well as infuriate

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

Imagine drawing Chelsea every season though :-|

Wouldn't have happened this season ;-)

[redgunamo]

Wouldn't have happened this season ;-)

I don't trust them, A. I don't trust them at all.

[Ash]

Boring? We've drawn them three times in the knock-out stage twice in 16 years!

We play Spurs twice a season - you must be bored to death of NLDs

Three times in four years, isn't it?

Also, cup competition. You expect to meet different teams in that.

[redgunamo]

Three times in four years, isn't it?

Also, cup competition. You expect to meet different teams in that.

Basically, Anaconda needs to move town again.

Swindon's nice apparently.

[SWv2]

They need to drop the rule about teams from the same country not meeting in the R.O.16. It skews the odds and make it statistically likely that the same clubs keep meeting each other. It's b-o-o-o-o-oring.

(And that rule is presumably there for commercial reasons.)

I find the CL quite boring in general, the group stages tedious beyond belief and serving little or no purpose.

I accept this is not a widely held view as many or most view it as the pinnacle of club football.

[PSRB]

Mind you, it's almost January and they haven't won the Bundesliga yet, so perhaps they are proper shíte nowadays?

Quite, perhaps they won't be able to rest all their players

[SWv2]

Quite, perhaps they won't be able to rest all their players

Mind you they did go top this weekend when Leipzig slipped. I expect that is that.

[Sir C]

Quite, perhaps they won't be able to rest all their players

Also, bear in Mind that Robben and the French peedo bloke are pretty old now and will be even older in February, and that Thomas Muller is shít.

[Ash]

I find the CL quite boring in general, the group stages tedious beyond belief and serving little or no purpose.

I accept this is not a widely held view as many or most view it as the pinnacle of club football.

It would definitely be the pinnacle of club football if we won it. Also, not being in Europe gives you a better chance of winning the league, it seems. Perhaps we need a less consistent manager who will finish 7th one year to give us a decent crack at the league.

[Sir C]

I find the CL quite boring in general, the group stages tedious beyond belief and serving little or no purpose.

I accept this is not a widely held view as many or most view it as the pinnacle of club football.

I bet you wouldn't find it boring if we weren't in it every year.

Spoilt, that what we (I mean you) are.

[SWv2]

I bet you wouldn't find it boring if we weren't in it every year.

Spoilt, that what we (I mean you) are.

I'm not sure I agree with you as our involvement neither heightens the user experience nor does it cause me to watch it more often that I may do otherwise.

In summary I think you are wrong.

For a start they need to reduce the number of teams and dispense with all the ****e from the group stages. Look at our group this year for example, Ludogorets and Basel. *******s. Both of them can **** right off.

p.s. I am not sure I care for your tone

[redgunamo]

It would definitely be pinnacle of club football if we won it. Also, not being in Europe gives you a better chance of winning the league, it seems. Perhaps we need a less consistent manager who will finish 7th one year to give us a decent crack at the league.

If our manager did that, he'd have to sell half the squad as a punishment though :-\

[redgunamo]

I bet you wouldn't find it boring if we weren't in it every year.

Spoilt, that what we (I mean you) are.

For Arsenal supporters of a certain vintage though, the competition simply isn't in our DNA. Unlike, say, it is for Liverpool or Manchester United fans of similar period.

[Ash]

If our manager did that, he'd have to sell half the squad as a punishment though :-\

Right. And goodness knows what would happen to Ivan's bonus. I'd rather be in it, tbh.

[Ash]

For Arsenal supporters of a certain vintage though, the competition simply isn't in our DNA. Unlike, say, it is for Liverpool or Manchester United fans of similar period.

That was a different competition, really. Most of the good teams were in the UEFA Cup back then. Get past Anderlecht and it was Dynamo Tractowerks all the way to the final.

[Sir C]

I'm not sure I agree with you as our involvement neither heightens the user experience nor does it cause me to watch it more often that I may do otherwise.

In summary I think you are wrong.

For a start they need to reduce the number of teams and dispense with all the ****e from the group stages. Look at our group this year for example, Ludogorets and Basel. *******s. Both of them can **** right off.

p.s. I am not sure I care for your tone

How bored do you think Leicester supporters are with it?

And furthermore, what you refer to as, '****e from the group stages' consists of games of football. Surely if one likes football, one enjoys watching games of football? You seem to be arguing against having games of football. But you like to watch football. It's not even as if you have to watch the football. But the football is there, being played, to watch if you like to watch football. But you don't want those games to be there.

I am very confused.

[SWv2]

Right. And goodness knows what would happen to Ivan's bonus. I'd rather be in it, tbh.

We have to be in it for playing reasons, those existing employees plus the recruitment of new. May get away with one year absence but then massive pressure in season 2.

[Sir C]

That was a different competition, really. Most of the good teams were in the UEFA Cup back then. Get past Anderlecht and it was Dynamo Tractowerks all the way to the final.

Rememeber when we won 4-1 at Lkomotiv Leipzig? :cloud9:

How come I can remember results from 1978 but not last week?

[SWv2]

How bored do you think Leicester supporters are with it?

And furthermore, what you refer to as, '****e from the group stages' consists of games of football. Surely if one likes football, one enjoys watching games of football? You seem to be arguing against having games of football. But you like to watch football. It's not even as if you have to watch the football. But the football is there, being played, to watch if you like to watch football. But you don't want those games to be there.

I am very confused.

I must admit to watching less football, domestic and CL, this year than any in previous living memory, despite having more than ever at my disposal.

I did however watch both Torino v Juventus and then Benfica v Sporting yesterday. Strange world.

[Sir C]

I must admit to watching less football, domestic and CL, this year than any in previous living memory, despite having more than ever at my disposal.

I did however watch both Torino v Juventus and then Benfica v Sporting yesterday. Strange world.

Whence came this additional time, sw? You've not retired, surely?

[redgunamo]

That was a different competition, really. Most of the good teams were in the UEFA Cup back then. Get past Anderlecht and it was Dynamo Tractowerks all the way to the final.

I don't think ignoring or downgrading historical achievements is a good thing, to be honest.

[SWv2]

Whence came this additional time, sw? You've not retired, surely?

More games, not time.

Time is fixed.

[Sir C]

More games, not time.

Time is fixed.

Were you in London in '78? I remember standing on the North Bank for Ipswich in the leagure, reading the report in the programme of our victory in Leipzig the previous Wednesday. I never dreamt that I'd be able to watch all our European games in real time within my lifetime.

[SWv2]

Were you in London in '78? I remember standing on the North Bank for Ipswich in the leagure, reading the report in the programme of our victory in Leipzig the previous Wednesday. I never dreamt that I'd be able to watch all our European games in real time within my lifetime.


No, I was but 11 then and my exposure to European football was via the transistor radio, a scratchy reception at best yet nights filled with excitement and intrigue, exotic names and players one only knew perhaps through Shoot magazine if at all.

Now we play ****e like Basil and you can see how ****e they are so you turn over.

I like football to be competitive.

[Sir C]

No, I was but 11 then and my exposure to European football was via the transistor radio, a scratchy reception at best yet nights filled with excitement and intrigue, exotic names and players one only knew perhaps through Shoot magazine if at all.

Now we play ****e like Basil and you can see how ****e they are so you turn over.

I like football to be competitive.

Big birthday next year then.

Nasty.

[World's End Stella]

No, I was but 11 then and my exposure to European football was via the transistor radio, a scratchy reception at best yet nights filled with excitement and intrigue, exotic names and players one only knew perhaps through Shoot magazine if at all.

Now we play ****e like Basil and you can see how ****e they are so you turn over.

I like football to be competitive.

I seem to recall going a bit ballistic when Arshavin stuck that one away against Barcelona a few years back.

I seem to recall that game as being pretty competitive. And if it isn't competitive, how come we struggle to win our group most years? We must be really **** :-(

[SWv2]

I seem to recall going a bit ballistic when Arshavin stuck that one away against Barcelona a few years back.

I seem to recall that game as being pretty competitive. And if it isn't competitive, how come we struggle to win our group most years? We must be really **** :-(

That was mere desperation to get one over on Barcelona, fair enough. That was probably a time when they were being held up by all and sundry as being the best team ever. Counted for **** all in the end of course.

Champions League starts now really, all that has gone before is really an irrelevance and merely a vehicle to allow the big clubs to make money and in general for the tournament to function.

Of course group stages can throw up the odd classic but more often than not they are dire and we all know what is going to transpire after the 6 games so may as well just jump there and get on with it.

[World's End Stella]

That was mere desperation to get one over on Barcelona, fair enough. That was probably a time when they were being held up by all and sundry as being the best team ever. Counted for **** all in the end of course.

Champions League starts now really, all that has gone before is really an irrelevance and merely a vehicle to allow the big clubs to make money and in general for the tournament to function.

Of course group stages can throw up the odd classic but more often than not they are dire and we all know what is going to transpire after the 6 games so may as well just jump there and get on with it.

Did you know that Spurs wouldn't make it through? That Madrid would finish second to Dortmund? (was a cracking game BTW) Did you expect Ludogrets to get a draw at PSG?

Your view of it all being very predictable seems at odds with the facts, I think. The group stages always have plenty of intrigue and some excellent football matches. I'd rather watch PSG away in the group stages than Stoke at home in the league. And the group stages allows us to get to this stage, so that's rather important. Was it that long ago that Monaco played Porto in the final? Doesn't strike me as very predictable.

Basically, I think you're talking nonsense. :-)

[Pokster]

Did you know that Spurs wouldn't make it through? That Madrid would finish second to Dortmund? (was a cracking game BTW) Did you expect Ludogrets to get a draw at PSG?

Your view of it all being very predictable seems at odds with the facts, I think. The group stages always have plenty of intrigue and some excellent football matches. I'd rather watch PSG away in the group stages than Stoke at home in the league. And the group stages allows us to get to this stage, so that's rather important. Was it that long ago that Monaco played Porto in the final? Doesn't strike me as very predictable.

Basically, I think you're talking nonsense. :-)

how many 3rd ranked teams got through to the last 16?

[Luis Anaconda]

No, I was but 11 then and my exposure to European football was via the transistor radio, a scratchy reception at best yet nights filled with excitement and intrigue, exotic names and players one only knew perhaps through Shoot magazine if at all.

Now we play ****e like Basil and you can see how ****e they are so you turn over.

I like football to be competitive.

Just checking but this **** team Basel that you are referring to - you do realise they are the same ****vtwm that have beaten Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool and Bayern in recent years, don't you?

[SWv2]

Just checking but this **** team Basel that you are referring to - you do realise they are the same ****vtwm that have beaten Chelsea, Manchester United, Liverpool and Bayern in recent years, don't you?

I was talking specifically about this year's vintage who I thought were very poor.

[SWv2]

how many 3rd ranked teams got through to the last 16?

Tell us P, I don't actually know.

[Luis Anaconda]

I was talking specifically about this year's vintage who I thought were very poor.
They were not great to be fair, but a well run club, can be a handful again

[World's End Stella]

I was talking specifically about this year's vintage who I thought were very poor.

So in other years they may have been much better? Yes, that makes sense as football teams change, often quite dramatically, from year to year.

So explain this 'predictable' theory to me again?

[Pokster]

Tell us P, I don't actually know.

Neither do I, that is why i was asking...... looking at the last 16 I can't say there are many teams you wouldn't have expected

[SWv2]

They were not great to be fair, but a well run club, can be a handful again

I am not disputing their corporate governance, purely that (from my point of view) I find most of the group stage matches to be footballing mis-matches and in that sense not hugely interesting.

Of course you get the odd anomaly and upset in this respect, sport and all that. You will also get the odd clash that is intriguing to watch such as last week’s encounter in Madrid.

Last 16, knock-out stages, wheat from chaff, rutting stags, other clichés. Simply better matches in general.

[SWv2]

So in other years they may have been much better? Yes, that makes sense as football teams change, often quite dramatically, from year to year.

So explain this 'predictable' theory to me again?

In previous seasons they had a better team. As indeed we did also.

That's surely not that difficult to understand?

[World's End Stella]

If you tracked the variability of who gets through to the knockout stages against who makes the top four in the PL I would be surprised if there is much difference. If anything I would expect the knockout stages to have more volatility than the PL.

[Pokster]

So in other years they may have been much better? Yes, that makes sense as football teams change, often quite dramatically, from year to year.

So explain this 'predictable' theory to me again?

If you look at the last 16 teams how many would you say you are surprised they qualified? You will always get the odd freak result but the end result (who qualifies) is usually predictable imo

[Sir C]

I am not disputing their corporate governance, purely that (from my point of view) I find most of the group stage matches to be footballing mis-matches and in that sense not hugely interesting.

Of course you get the odd anomaly and upset in this respect, sport and all that. You will also get the odd clash that is intriguing to watch such as last week’s encounter in Madrid.

Last 16, knock-out stages, wheat from chaff, rutting stags, other clichés. Simply better matches in general.

Better matches they may be, but that doesn't make the group stage matches a waste of time.

No, I'm afraid we are all agreed, you are wrong.

[World's End Stella]

In previous seasons they had a better team. As indeed we did also.

That's surely not that difficult to understand?

It's not difficult to understand. Nor, for that matter, is it relevant to the question I asked.

[World's End Stella]

Better matches they may be, but that doesn't make the group stage matches a waste of time.

No, I'm afraid we are all agreed, you are wrong.

:thumbup:

10 f*cking characters

[PotatoNoel]

**** them. Not the same team under Ancelotti. At risk of sounding like a Liverpool fan, we'll do them this year.

[Ash]

I don't think ignoring or downgrading historical achievements is a good thing, to be honest.

As old big head said: The difficult bit was winning the league.

[SWv2]

Better matches they may be, but that doesn't make the group stage matches a waste of time.

No, I'm afraid we are all agreed, you are wrong.

It is not a case of right or wrong, it is merely personal opinion, yours against mine. I don’t think the competition would be lessened in any way, other than numerical involvement, by removing group stages and proceeding straight to knock out and for that matter by allowing any two sides from the same country to clash at any time.

In fact I think, me personally, it would improve the thing.

When our group was announced every one of us knew we would qualify along with PSG, as we also all knew that City and Barcelona would, and Real and Dortmund. Predictable as my earlier comment to Wes.

I genuinely don’t see much intrigue in that.

[World's End Stella]

It is not a case of right or wrong, it is merely personal opinion, yours against mine. I don’t think the competition would be lessened in any way, other than numerical involvement, by removing group stages and proceeding straight to knock out and for that matter by allowing any two sides from the same country to clash at any time.

In fact I think, me personally, it would improve the thing.

When our group was announced every one of us knew we would qualify along with PSG, as we also all knew that City and Barcelona would, and Real and Dortmund. Predictable as my earlier comment to Wes.

I genuinely don’t see much intrigue in that.

That all sounds terribly rational, objective and considered.

Can't you get upset about people disagreeing with you and call someone a c*nt?

[Gooner Canuck]

I would rather win the league. Losing to Bayern (again) means 5 fewer critical matches. See what an optimist I am?

[Ash]

I don’t think the competition would be lessened in any way, other than numerical involvement, by removing group stages and proceeding straight to knock out and for that matter by allowing any two sides from the same country to clash at any time.


FA Cup stylee? Open draw, no seeding, like in the old days, where the best team didn't always win it?

[SWv2]

FA Cup stylee? Open draw, no seeding, like in the old days, where the best team didn't always win it?

I’m not entirely sure how it would pan out in reality, perhaps two legs needed in each round. Then you go into murky waters of away goals and I am not really sure how I feel about that either.

No seeding. Seeding is not cool in a straight knock-out.

Barca v Real in Round 1, a giant to fall on their sword at the earliest stage, lovely. Apart from the perspective of the money people of course and we all know the CL exists really to make the rich richer so it will never happen.

Domestic head to heads in these competitions are great as they are very different dynamic to domestic league games, we just hate them as we tend to make a *******s out of them.

[redgunamo]

As old big head said: The difficult bit was winning the league.

For the top teams, that's only really true in England though. So he was right, as ever.

[Ash]

I’m not entirely sure how it would pan out in reality, perhaps two legs needed in each round. Then you go into murky waters of away goals and I am not really sure how I feel about that either.

No seeding. Seeding is not cool in a straight knock-out.

Barca v Real in Round 1, a giant to fall on their sword at the earliest stage, lovely. Apart from the perspective of the money people of course and we all know the CL exists really to make the rich richer so it will never happen.

Domestic head to heads in these competitions are great as they are very different dynamic to domestic league games, we just hate them as we tend to make a *******s out of them.

I think the value of the competition as it stands - to the players and the clubs, is the fact that it is designed to get the best teams to the end, and so winning it is highly prestigious, like seeded major tournaments in other sports. Random big teams knocking each other out early doors might be fun, and might give 2nd rate teams like us a chance of winning it, but will the players give a **** about what is ultimately a weaker tournament?

[redgunamo]

I think the value of the competition as it stands - to the players and the clubs, is the fact that it is designed to get the best teams to the end, and so winning it is highly prestigious, like seeded major tournaments in other sports. Random big teams knocking each other out early doors might be fun, and might give 2nd rate teams like us a chance of winning it, but will the players give a **** about what is ultimately a weaker tournament?

I'm not sure. If you actually win a tournament, surely you can *always* argue that you were the best team in it, can't you. I don't think players refuse to accept their medals and trophies just because they didn't beat Real Madrid.

The competition itself's the thing, I reckon. We want to win the European Cup and if we only have to play against Swindon Town and Saudi Arabia to do it, then so be it.

[SWv2]

I think the value of the competition as it stands - to the players and the clubs, is the fact that it is designed to get the best teams to the end, and so winning it is highly prestigious, like seeded major tournaments in other sports. Random big teams knocking each other out early doors might be fun, and might give 2nd rate teams like us a chance of winning it, but will the players give a **** about what is ultimately a weaker tournament?

The value of the tournament to the players cannot be denied nor underestimated, it being often cited as the reason why players leave clubs or join clubs.

I think the value to clubs is more financial than prestige overall as I would imagine only a handful have realistic ambitions of winning it each August, some others dream like us, most know they are simply in it to make up numbers and reap the financial benefits thereof.

[redgunamo]

The value of the tournament to the players cannot be denied nor underestimated, it being often cited as the reason why players leave clubs or join clubs.

I think the value to clubs is more financial than prestige overall as I would imagine only a handful have realistic ambitions of winning it each August, some others dream like us, most know they are simply in it to make up numbers and reap the financial benefits thereof.

You don't fancy Leicester City then?