I note that our stabby friend from Russell Square with the 'mental health issues' has

[Burney]

been ruled fit to plead. Ho-hum. :rolleyes:

[Sir C]

been ruled fit to plead. Ho-hum. :rolleyes:

Norwegian lad, apparently. Must have been fed up about the performance of his country's sovereign wealth fund, what with oil prices being depressed for so long.

That's my theory.

[Burney]

Norwegian lad, apparently. Must have been fed up about the performance of his country's sovereign wealth fund, what with oil prices being depressed for so long.

That's my theory.

Or possibly that it costs him a tenner to buy a pint? That'd depress me.

[Sir C]

Or possibly that it costs him a tenner to buy a pint? That'd depress me.

A tenner? More like 40 quid post 23rd June.

[Burney]

A tenner? More like 40 quid post 23rd June.

Of course. I've got to spend another nightless week there next June. :-( I expect to see the FD weeping when he sees my expenses. :hehe:

[Brentwood]

Or possibly that it costs him a tenner to buy a pint? That'd depress me.

I paid £8.80 for a pint the other day (93 NOK) :yikes:

The chap working in the hotel was on £38k a year minimum though, so I was effectively funding that

[Pat Vegas]

Of course. I've got to spend another nightless week there next June. :-( I expect to see the FD weeping when he sees my expenses. :hehe:

It's so bloody confusing.
Not just it being light at night.

you have no idea what time of day it is. You think it's 4 and it's already 8pm.

[Burney]

I paid £8.80 for a pint the other day (93 NOK) :yikes:

The chap working in the hotel was on £38k a year minimum though, so I was effectively funding that

I struggle to see how you could live on £38k pa in Norway, though. Particularly as they absolutely rape you in tax from what I understand.

[Luis Anaconda]

It's so bloody confusing.
Not just it being light at night.

you have no idea what time of day it is. You think it's 4 and it's already 8pm.
If only man could invent some sort of piece of equipment that could keep track of the time :banghead:

[Burney]

If only man could invent some sort of piece of equipment that could keep track of the time :banghead:

Yes, but when it's still blazing sunshine and you've been drinking for hours, your body is telling you it's the afternoon and the fact that your watch says its 10.30pm is irrelevant.

[Brentwood]

I struggle to see how you could live on £38k pa in Norway, though. Particularly as they absolutely rape you in tax from what I understand.

A lot of the money they take in tax comes back in the form of state sponsored services, which you don't have to pay again for. For example, my 2 kids are in kindergarten from 08:00 - 16:00 Mon - Fri. This costs me about 200 quid a month for the two of them. My friends in the UK pay an absolute fortune for an equivalent service. My 25 min train journey from Shenfield to Liv st used to cost me nearly £3k a year I think. I now pay half that for a 25 minute boat trip which also includes unlimited trams, trains etc.

My wife and I have been given 12 months parental leave (her 10 months, me 2) and we continue to get 100% pay. That means you don't lose a few years of income to have a family

People here don't drink alcohol like we do in the UK. They would never go on an all day sessiondrinking all day as it would cost a fortune. they normally buy their full limit of alcohol every time they travel (Norwegians fly a lot) and have people over for dinner, get smashed at home and then head out at 23:00ish to drink a few in bars

Over here, the lowest skilled professions earn a wage that means they can afford to go on a good holiday every year, many own winter or summer cabins and boats (you can deduct your loans and mortgages from the assets you own so it is better from a tax perspective)

[Burney]

A lot of the money they take in tax comes back in the form of state sponsored services, which you don't have to pay again for. For example, my 2 kids are in kindergarten from 08:00 - 16:00 Mon - Fri. This costs me about 200 quid a month for the two of them. My friends in the UK pay an absolute fortune for an equivalent service. My 25 min train journey from Shenfield to Liv st used to cost me nearly £3k a year I think. I now pay half that for a 25 minute boat trip which also includes unlimited trams, trains etc.

My wife and I have been given 12 months parental leave (her 10 months, me 2) and we continue to get 100% pay. That means you don't lose a few years of income to have a family

People here don't drink alcohol like we do in the UK. They would never go on an all day sessiondrinking all day as it would cost a fortune. they normally buy their full limit of alcohol every time they travel (Norwegians fly a lot) and have people over for dinner, get smashed at home and then head out at 23:00ish to drink a few in bars

Over here, the lowest skilled professions earn a wage that means they can afford to go on a good holiday every year, many own winter or summer cabins and boats (you can deduct your loans and mortgages from the assets you own so it is better from a tax perspective)

The thing about drinking is funny. The first time I went, I found it confusing that when you landed, there was a Duty Free before you went through passport control and all the Norwegians were frantically buying booze there.

Mind you, I find it equally weird in Finland that you can't buy anything stronger than beer in supermarkets and have to find the special state-owned off licence in order to get a bottle of wine. Odd.

[Brentwood]

The thing about drinking is funny. The first time I went, I found it confusing that when you landed, there was a Duty Free before you went through passport control and all the Norwegians were frantically buying booze there.

Mind you, I find it equally weird in Finland that you can't buy anything stronger than beer in supermarkets and have to find the special state-owned off licence in order to get a bottle of wine. Odd.

There's a lot that i love about living here, but not being able to pop to the supermarket on a Sunday to buy a bottle of wine really pisses me off. You can ony buy standard beers from supermarkets between certain hours (not on Sundays, not before elections etc). Wine and spirits can only be purchased from the Wine Monopoly. If you have a bottle on the conveyer belt at the till and the clock hits 16:01, the till shuts down and you won't be served. It's bonkers

If you fly to London, the money you save from buying your full allowance of booze and fags can often pay for the trip itself. Especially if you buy some clothes and get your haircut over there (the cheapest place I have found costs me £60 here)

[Burney]

There's a lot that i love about living here, but not being able to pop to the supermarket on a Sunday to buy a bottle of wine really pisses me off. You can ony buy standard beers from supermarkets between certain hours (not on Sundays, not before elections etc). Wine and spirits can only be purchased from the Wine Monopoly. If you have a bottle on the conveyer belt at the till and the clock hits 16:01, the till shuts down and you won't be served. It's bonkers

How do the locals feel about these restrictions? Do they not see it as an offensive intrusion into their right to choose? What do they think will happen if they lifted these restrictions? Would the whole of Norway have cirrhosis within the week?

[Monty92]

A lot of the money they take in tax comes back in the form of state sponsored services, which you don't have to pay again for. For example, my 2 kids are in kindergarten from 08:00 - 16:00 Mon - Fri. This costs me about 200 quid a month for the two of them. My friends in the UK pay an absolute fortune for an equivalent service. My 25 min train journey from Shenfield to Liv st used to cost me nearly £3k a year I think. I now pay half that for a 25 minute boat trip which also includes unlimited trams, trains etc.

My wife and I have been given 12 months parental leave (her 10 months, me 2) and we continue to get 100% pay. That means you don't lose a few years of income to have a family

People here don't drink alcohol like we do in the UK. They would never go on an all day sessiondrinking all day as it would cost a fortune. they normally buy their full limit of alcohol every time they travel (Norwegians fly a lot) and have people over for dinner, get smashed at home and then head out at 23:00ish to drink a few in bars

Over here, the lowest skilled professions earn a wage that means they can afford to go on a good holiday every year, many own winter or summer cabins and boats (you can deduct your loans and mortgages from the assets you own so it is better from a tax perspective)

30 hours p/w free childcare being rolled out in September :cloud9:

[Sir C]

A lot of the money they take in tax comes back in the form of state sponsored services, which you don't have to pay again for. For example, my 2 kids are in kindergarten from 08:00 - 16:00 Mon - Fri. This costs me about 200 quid a month for the two of them. My friends in the UK pay an absolute fortune for an equivalent service. My 25 min train journey from Shenfield to Liv st used to cost me nearly £3k a year I think. I now pay half that for a 25 minute boat trip which also includes unlimited trams, trains etc.

My wife and I have been given 12 months parental leave (her 10 months, me 2) and we continue to get 100% pay. That means you don't lose a few years of income to have a family

People here don't drink alcohol like we do in the UK. They would never go on an all day sessiondrinking all day as it would cost a fortune. they normally buy their full limit of alcohol every time they travel (Norwegians fly a lot) and have people over for dinner, get smashed at home and then head out at 23:00ish to drink a few in bars

Over here, the lowest skilled professions earn a wage that means they can afford to go on a good holiday every year, many own winter or summer cabins and boats (you can deduct your loans and mortgages from the assets you own so it is better from a tax perspective)

This is communism :-(

[Burney]

This is communism :-(

It's a bit more enlightened than that. It is at least rewarding people for giving up their individual freedoms.

[Brentwood]

How do the locals feel about these restrictions? Do they not see it as an offensive intrusion into their right to choose? What do they think will happen if they lifted these restrictions? Would the whole of Norway have cirrhosis within the week?

People complain a little bit, but the idea is that everybody should be allowed to have Sundays off work to go for walks or ski trips in the forest or mountains. I think I moan more because i am used to more freedom, but people just tell me i should be better at planning my food shopping.

They see it as a positive in a way, because all bad things are taxed heavily (fags, gambling, booze) and the money goes back into the pot for good things.

[Brentwood]

This is communism :-(

It feels like that a bit. They also have quite protectionist import tarrifs in place, so that French cheese costs a fortune, simply because farmers in Norway (make up a big part of the govt) make cheese here. Tomato farmers in Norway are subsidised by the tax payer to grow tomatos expensively and Spanish grown toms cost a fortune (to protect the local farmers)

I worry a bit that the UK could end up going this way a bit re Brexit

[Burney]

People complain a little bit, but the idea is that everybody should be allowed to have Sundays off work to go for walks or ski trips in the forest or mountains. I think I moan more because i am used to more freedom, but people just tell me i should be better at planning my food shopping.

They see it as a positive in a way, because all bad things are taxed heavily (fags, gambling, booze) and the money goes back into the pot for good things.

Yes, I struggle with attaching moral values to personal choices such as gambling, smoking or drinking, to be honest. I'm of the old-fashioned opinion that it isn't really for the government to impose its ideas of good and bad on me.

The Sunday thing is always annoying on the continent. France basically shuts on Sundays, too. The Anglo-Saxon mercantile mind fundamentally believes that if we have the money to pay for something, there should be someone available to sell it to us. Anything else is a restriction of our rights.

[Burney]

It feels like that a bit. They also have quite protectionist import tarrifs in place, so that French cheese costs a fortune, simply because farmers in Norway (make up a big part of the govt) make cheese here. Tomato farmers in Norway are subsidised by the tax payer to grow tomatos expensively and Spanish grown toms cost a fortune (to protect the local farmers)

I worry a bit that the UK could end up going this way a bit re Brexit

The UK won't go that way since the UK hasn't been a protectionist economy since the repeal of the Corn Laws. We invented the idea of free trade and revel in it. Our whole Brexit effort is predicated on having the freest possible trade with the world at large.

Damn bad luck having to eat Norwegian cheese, btw. :-( That brown stuff is particularly nasty.

[Brentwood]

The UK won't go that way since the UK hasn't been a protectionist economy since the repeal of the Corn Laws. We invented the idea of free trade and revel in it. Our whole Brexit effort is predicated on having the freest possible trade with the world at large.

Damn bad luck having to eat Norwegian cheese, btw. :-( That brown stuff is particularly nasty.

I can't stand it, but Jarlsberg isn't bad. I sometimes pop over the border to Sweden to buy the EU stuff as it's only just over an hour away

What happens if the EU decide to charge the UK a high tax to sell our stuff in the EU, and we retaliate with higher taxes for them to sell into us?

[redgunamo]

The UK won't go that way since the UK hasn't been a protectionist economy since the repeal of the Corn Laws. We invented the idea of free trade and revel in it. Our whole Brexit effort is predicated on having the freest possible trade with the world at large.

Damn bad luck having to eat Norwegian cheese, btw. :-( That brown stuff is particularly nasty.

Right. Everyone really seems to struggle with the idea that different peoples in different places will want to behave differently :shrug:

[Burney]

I can't stand it, but Jarlsberg isn't bad. I sometimes pop over the border to Sweden to buy the EU stuff as it's only just over an hour away

What happens if the EU decide to charge the UK a high tax to sell our stuff in the EU, and we retaliate with higher taxes for them to sell into us?

Why on earth would they do that? If we left the EU tomorrow, we'd overnight become its biggest export market. Do you really think they're prepared to cut their noses off to spite their faces to that extent? Do you think a German government will be able to justify layoffs from its car companies on the basis that they were necessary to 'punish' Britain for leaving the EU? Not going to happen.

[Brentwood]

Why on earth would they do that? If we left the EU tomorrow, we'd overnight become its biggest export market. Do you really think they're prepared to cut their noses off to spite their faces to that extent? Do you think a German government will be able to justify layoffs from its car companies on the basis that they were necessary to 'punish' Britain for leaving the EU? Not going to happen.

All 27 countries have to agree on the terms of our new arrangement, I believe? I assume every country will want to punish us in some way, so that no other country amongst the 27 is tempted to do the same and destroy the whole thing for them. It would be pretty ridiculous if we walk away with better trading terms and don't have to accept the 'bad' bits we're walking away from. I assume that there'll be countries among the 27 who see opportunities to snatch industries from us who'll throw spanners in the works somewhere along the line. Banks are already carrying out due diligence exercises about moving to Paris or Frankfurt, running marketing campaigns to try to be the destination of choice for those in the financial industry

Assume that in the worst case scenario, most car manufacturers leave the UK and we can only buy from foreign manufacturers or niche UK ones that have remained here. We'll have to buy more expensive imported cars (or be left with a limited selection of UK produced ones) and the EU countries won't care about not being able to buy our cars.

[Sir C]

All 27 countries have to agree on the terms of our new arrangement, I believe? I assume every country will want to punish us in some way, so that no other country amongst the 27 is tempted to do the same and destroy the whole thing for them. It would be pretty ridiculous if we walk away with better trading terms and don't have to accept the 'bad' bits we're walking away from. I assume that there'll be countries among the 27 who see opportunities to snatch industries from us who'll throw spanners in the works somewhere along the line. Banks are already carrying out due diligence exercises about moving to Paris or Frankfurt, running marketing campaigns to try to be the destination of choice for those in the financial industry

Assume that in the worst case scenario, most car manufacturers leave the UK and we can only buy from foreign manufacturers or niche UK ones that have remained here. We'll have to buy more expensive imported cars (or be left with a limited selection of UK produced ones) and the EU countries won't care about not being able to buy our cars.

Both Nissan and Toyota have committed to staying. :shrug:

[Burney]

All 27 countries have to agree on the terms of our new arrangement, I believe? I assume every country will want to punish us in some way, so that no other country amongst the 27 is tempted to do the same and destroy the whole thing for them. It would be pretty ridiculous if we walk away with better trading terms and don't have to accept the 'bad' bits we're walking away from. I assume that there'll be countries among the 27 who see opportunities to snatch industries from us who'll throw spanners in the works somewhere along the line. Banks are already carrying out due diligence exercises about moving to Paris or Frankfurt, running marketing campaigns to try to be the destination of choice for those in the financial industry

Assume that in the worst case scenario, most car manufacturers leave the UK and we can only buy from foreign manufacturers or niche UK ones that have remained here. We'll have to buy more expensive imported cars (or be left with a limited selection of UK produced ones) and the EU countries won't care about not being able to buy our cars.

What you're suggesting then, is that the EU might behave appallingly and against the interests of its own populations in the pursuit of propping up an organisation that has to frighten people into staying?
And that's an organisation of which you wanted to remain a part? :rubchin:

Also, there is literally zero evidence that any of this is going to happen. What will happen is that there will be lots of posturing, there will be some token bits of give and take and everyone will do the deal that suits them.
Also, as pretty much anyone will tell you, the idea that Paris or Frankfurt could replace the City is laughable.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

Yes, I struggle with attaching moral values to personal choices such as gambling, smoking or drinking, to be honest. I'm of the old-fashioned opinion that it isn't really for the government to impose its ideas of good and bad on me.

The Sunday thing is always annoying on the continent. France basically shuts on Sundays, too. The Anglo-Saxon mercantile mind fundamentally believes that if we have the money to pay for something, there should be someone available to sell it to us. Anything else is a restriction of our rights.

In the cities, there's always an Ali (as we called the offies - Alimentation General) where you can buy booze to around 11 on a Sunday night. And if you know where to look, there's normally late night kebabies that flog you cans of 8.6 (if you like Brew - I guess they sell normal larger too, it's just I've never drunk it.)

So not much different to London, really, in terms of corner shop offies being open on a Sunday.

[Ganpati's Goonerz--AFC's Aboriginal Fertility Cult]

The UK won't go that way since the UK hasn't been a protectionist economy since the repeal of the Corn Laws. We invented the idea of free trade and revel in it. Our whole Brexit effort is predicated on having the freest possible trade with the world at large.

Damn bad luck having to eat Norwegian cheese, btw. :-( That brown stuff is particularly nasty.

Interestingly, the term Little Englanders was used during the Corn Law debates for those who wanted to ditch the empire because of the cost and hassle of running it and just free trade with the world.

I guess your side would see it as not paying to be part of a large economic zone. May I call you a Little Englander? In the historical sense, obv.