I'll tell you what's ****, ****ing relatives sending

[Billy Goat Sverige]

money for a kids birthday/christmas and putting all the responsibility on me to find something to buy. I struggle to think of stuff we should buy him, let alone what every other **** should get him.

[redgunamo]

money for a kids birthday/christmas and putting all the responsibility on me to find something to buy. I struggle to think of stuff we should buy him, let alone what every other **** should get him.

You're just supposed to drink the money, I think. The kid'll never know.

[Burney]

money for a kids birthday/christmas and putting all the responsibility on me to find something to buy. I struggle to think of stuff we should buy him, let alone what every other **** should get him.

He's too young to give a shït, surely? He'd be happy with a cardboard box imo.

Trouser it.

[Monty92]

money for a kids birthday/christmas and putting all the responsibility on me to find something to buy. I struggle to think of stuff we should buy him, let alone what every other **** should get him.

I've been told we're introducing my eldest (2.5 years) to the concept of Santa this year.

My rule is that as soon as he goes to school and starts learning about religion, he gets told that Santa doesn't exist.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

He's too young to give a shït, surely? He'd be happy with a cardboard box imo.

Trouser it.

Did that with some of his birthday money. Bought a few little vtech cars and kept the change :hehe:

[Sir C]

money for a kids birthday/christmas and putting all the responsibility on me to find something to buy. I struggle to think of stuff we should buy him, let alone what every other **** should get him.

Open him a secret savings account. Continue to pay all gift monies, tooth-fairy moneys, all that shíte into it until he is 18, when you can proudly present him with enough cash to get 3 Ukrainian hookers and 5 grams of charlie with which to correctly celebrate his birthday.

[Burney]

I've been told we're introducing my eldest (2.5 years) to Santa this year.

My rule is that as soon as he goes to school and starts learning about religion, he gets told that Santa doesn't exist.

I don't think that's necessary. Why can't a kid have a little bit of make-believe in their life? He'll have 70+ years to deal with the grinding, crushing hopelessness and futility of life, so let him have a few years where he believes in a benign universe, ffs!

[Burney]

Open him a secret savings account. Continue to pay all gift monies, tooth-fairy moneys, all that shíte into it until he is 18, when you can proudly present him with enough cash to get 3 Ukrainian hookers and 5 grams of charlie with which to correctly celebrate his birthday.

The poor kid lives in Sweden. By the time he gets to 18 he'll be under Sharia law and live in fear of being bummed by Afghans. :-(

[Billy Goat Sverige]

I've been told we're introducing my eldest (2.5 years) to the concept of Santa this year.

My rule is that as soon as he goes to school and starts learning about religion, he gets told that Santa doesn't exist.

Over here the dad usually dresses up as santa and hands out the presents. I'm going to have to pretend i'm off out to buy a paper and get changed into a santa outfit in the garden shed :-|

[Burney]

Over here the dad usually dresses up as santa and hands out the presents. I'm going to have to pretend i'm off out to buy a paper and get changed into a santa outfit in the garden shed :-|

That's stupid. Any but actually retarded kids are bound to realise it's just their dad in a suit, which sort of defeats the object of pretending Santa exists, surely?

[Monty92]

Open him a secret savings account. Continue to pay all gift monies, tooth-fairy moneys, all that shíte into it until he is 18, when you can proudly present him with enough cash to get 3 Ukrainian hookers and 5 grams of charlie with which to correctly celebrate his birthday.

Every birthday we buy Louis a bottle of vintage Louis Roederer, with the intention of presenting him with all of them when he's 18. Though with his effete Jewish heritage he'll probably sell them.

[Sir C]

That's stupid. Any but actually retarded kids are bound to realise it's just their dad in a suit, which sort of defeats the object of pretending Santa exists, surely?

My Pa used to do that for young J and his sister, and they didn't suss him out until they were quite old, I think. Certainly in their twenties.

[Sir C]

Every birthday we buy Louis a bottle of vintage Louis Roederer, with the intention of presenting him with all of them when he's 18. Though with his effete Jewish heritage he'll probably sell them.

And what does Anus get?

[redgunamo]

I've been told we're introducing my eldest (2.5 years) to the concept of Santa this year.

My rule is that as soon as he goes to school and starts learning about religion, he gets told that Santa doesn't exist.

He'll already know by then. Won't stop him wanting Christmas presents though.

[Burney]

Every birthday we buy Louis a bottle of vintage Louis Roederer, with the intention of presenting him with all of them when he's 18. Though with his effete Jewish heritage he'll probably sell them.

You're going to give 18 bottles of vintage fizz to an 18 year-old?

That's some high-quality vomit you'll be wiping off the lavatory walls.

[Burney]

My Pa used to do that for young J and his sister, and they didn't suss him out until they were quite old, I think. Certainly in their twenties.

As he was Dutch, I assume he was accompanied by a black man?

[redgunamo]

That's stupid. Any but actually retarded kids are bound to realise it's just their dad in a suit, which sort of defeats the object of pretending Santa exists, surely?

Right. All the gifts ought to be assembled under the tree. Dad gets to drink Santa's whisky, eat His mince pies and smoke His cigar as proof He had been there.

[Monty92]

I don't think that's necessary. Why can't a kid have a little bit of make-believe in their life? He'll have 70+ years to deal with the grinding, crushing hopelessness and futility of life, so let him have a few years where he believes in a benign universe, ffs!

I think it will be worth it to head off any risk of credulousness at the pass.

He won’t be short of make-believe, which I agree is healthy and desirable. There’ll be talking animals in animated movies, role-play , fancy dress, etc etc etc

[Sir C]

As he was Dutch, I assume he was accompanied by a black man?

:hehe: Yes I should have blacked up really, shouldn't I? No one could have objected because, it's like, my cultural heritage and that.

Opportunity missed.

[Burney]

I think it will be worth it to head off any risk of credulousness at the pass.

He won’t be short of make-believe, which I agree is healthy and desirable. There’ll be talking animals in animated movies, role-play , fancy dress, etc etc etc

And those things are better than believing in Santa why exactly?

[Billy Goat Sverige]

That's stupid. Any but actually retarded kids are bound to realise it's just their dad in a suit, which sort of defeats the object of pretending Santa exists, surely?

It's all retarded, B. They do it on the 24th, presents opened in the afternoon, no bird or spuds. I hate it :cry:

[Monty92]

You're going to give 18 bottles of vintage fizz to an 18 year-old?

That's some high-quality vomit you'll be wiping off the lavatory walls.

As I said, he'll either drink them in moderation, or sell them. Jews don't do hedonism.

[Burney]

:hehe: Yes I should have blacked up really, shouldn't I? No one could have objected because, it's like, my cultural heritage and that.

Opportunity missed.

:nod: You could have done the full eye-rolling, 'Yes massa' bit and they couldn't have fücking touched you for it.

[Sir C]

And those things are better than believing in Santa why exactly?

I rather think you're msssing the point, b. m is one of they radical gentile-baby-blood drinking Zionist types. He's hardly going to encourage his offspring to honour the great yok festival, is he?

[Monty92]

And those things are better than believing in Santa why exactly?

Because he knows the animals that talk in animated movies are not real and that when he dresses up as a pirate he's not really a pirate. It's playing with reality, not lying about it.

[Burney]

As I said, he'll either drink them in moderation, or sell them. Jews don't do hedonism.

He's not a Jew, though, is he? He's a goy and thus subject to all our weaknesses.

[Monty92]

And what does Anus get?

When she's 18?

FGM

[Sir C]

It's all retarded, B. They do it on the 24th, presents opened in the afternoon, no bird or spuds. I hate it :cry:

But b, you must introduce some typically English elements into your christmas for the sake of the child, otherwise he will grow up without any connection to his English heritage.

You can rustle up a roast dinner, can't you?

[Monty92]

He's not a Jew, though, is he? He's a goy and thus subject to all our weaknesses.

I hope so, but the missus is a bit of a lightweight too :-(

[Sir C]

When she's 18?

FGM

I read somewhere that it's customary to do it with a piece of flint. :-(

[World's End Stella]

As I said, he'll either drink them in moderation, or sell them. Jews don't do hedonism.

Or - more likely - he'll find that you haven't stored them properly and they all taste like acid by the time he tastes them.

I raise this because I know someone (also of Jewish persuasion) who bought their newborn son a case of champagne with the vintage of his birth year and did precisely that.

[Monty92]

I read somewhere that it's customary to do it with a piece of flint. :-(

Whatever works, imo. Whatever works.

I found my son trying to penetrate my daughter in the bath with a toothbrush the other day :-\

[Sir C]

Whatever works, imo. Whatever works.

I found my son trying to penetrate my daughter in the bath with a toothbrush the other day :-\

That's the problem with having children. From conception, through the pregnancy, the birth, the breastfeeding, the whatever comes next, it's all so vulgarly physiological.

I find it perfectly repulsive.

[Burney]

Because he knows the animals that talk in animated movies are not real and that when he dresses up as a pirate he's not really a pirate. It's playing with reality, not lying about it.

I think you'll find that kids' have a rather more fluid concept of reality than you imagine. Most of the time, they are almost alarmingly materialistic. When they're not, it's usually because they choose not to be.

My daughter 'believed' in Santa Claus to the extent that she got a stocking full of gewgaws once a year. She obviously ceased to believe in him at some point because she's not a retard, but continued with the pretence because she a/ realised it pleased her parents as much as it did her and b/ because she was worried that if she admitted she didn't believe in him, she wouldn't still get the stocking.

Essentially, what you seem to be scared of is that your child will be too thick to work shït out for himself. That's pointless because he almost certainly isn't and, if he is, telling him Santa isn't real won't save him.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

But b, you must introduce some typically English elements into your christmas for the sake of the child, otherwise he will grow up without any connection to his English heritage.

You can rustle up a roast dinner, can't you?

I introduced christmas crackers last year. I tried to make some stuffing the year before but it didn't go very well. I couldn't get a hold of any english sausages and tried using some swedish ones. It was like a big ball of greasy muck :-(

[Sir C]

I introduced christmas crackers last year. I tried to make some stuffing the year before but it didn't go very well. I couldn't get hold off any english sausages and tried using some swedish ones. It was like a big ball of greasy muck :-(

:-( Christmas pudding? It's rank, but it's English!

[Burney]

Whatever works, imo. Whatever works.

I found my son trying to penetrate my daughter in the bath with a toothbrush the other day :-\


All perfectly normal. I knew a chap who wedged an Action Man's head up his brother's arse in the bath :shrug:

Myself, I just contented myself with showing my penîs to any of my sisters' friends who came to the house.

[Burney]

It's all retarded, B. They do it on the 24th, presents opened in the afternoon, no bird or spuds. I hate it :cry:

I've heard they eat fish for Christmas dinner. Can that be true? :-(

[Sir C]

All perfectly normal. I knew a chap who wedged an Action Man's head up his brother's arse in the bath :shrug:

Myself, I just contented myself with showing my penîs to any of my sisters' friends who came to the house.

Rubik's cube? Business acumen? Collection of toad livers?

[Burney]

:-( Christmas pudding? It's rank, but it's English!

It is perfectly foul. As you know, I find the whole dried fruit and suet thing that's associated with Christmas utterly baffling.

[Monty92]

I think you'll find that kids' have a rather more fluid concept of reality than you imagine. Most of the time, they are almost alarmingly materialistic. When they're not, it's usually because they choose not to be.

My daughter 'believed' in Santa Claus to the extent that she got a stocking full of gewgaws once a year. She obviously ceased to believe in him at some point because she's not a retard, but continued with the pretence because she a/ realised it pleased her parents as much as it did her and b/ because she was worried that if she admitted she didn't believe in him, she wouldn't still get the stocking.

Essentially, what you seem to be scared of is that your child will be too thick to work shït out for himself. That's pointless because he almost certainly isn't and, if he is, telling him Santa isn't real won't save him.

No, I'm not scared of that at all. I'm scared that along with being formally introduced to the concepts of religion and faith (which he will be as soon as he enters education), it will help inculcate a general credulousness that will be harder to shrug off as he grows older.

Given that much of human psychology is determined in the early years, and given how prevalent credulousness is among otherwise intelligent adults, I see this as a genuine risk.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

I've heard they eat fish for Christmas dinner. Can that be true? :-(

The julbord is full of all different kinds of fish. I end up having a plate of boiled potatoes and ham because i wont touch any of the other filth.

[Luis Anaconda]

All perfectly normal. I knew a chap who wedged an Action Man's head up his brother's arse in the bath :shrug:

Myself, I just contented myself with showing my penîs to any of my sisters' friends who came to the house.

And at what age did this stop?

[Sir C]

It is perfectly foul. As you know, I find the whole dried fruit and suet thing that's associated with Christmas utterly baffling.

I've got to cook three seperate christmas dinner this year. Three! That's taking the piss. One shall be goosey, one turkey ( :-( ) and the other, perhaps, beefribby.

[Burney]

No, I'm not scared of that at all. I'm scared that along with being formally introduced to the concepts of religion and faith (which he will be as soon as he enters education), it will inculcate a credulousness that will be harder to shrug off.

Given that much of human psychology is determined in the early years, and given how prevalent credulousness is in otherwise intelligent adults, I see this as a genuine risk.

However, it's equally prevalent for people who believed in Santa and the tooth fairy as children and were surrounded by religion to grow up without the merest smidgeon of religious faith. I managed it, as did you and - I presume - your good lady, so why do you think your son won't be able to do the same?

Also, if you really want to avoid the whole religion thing, oughtn't you logically to be banning Christmas altogether?

[Burney]

I've got to cook three seperate christmas dinner this year. Three! That's taking the piss. One shall be goosey, one turkey ( :-( ) and the other, perhaps, beefribby.

The actual Christmas Day dinner is supposed to be being cooked by my daughter, nieces and nephews. However, since I have no desire to spend Christmas night and Boxing day shïtting myself inside out, I will have to muscle in at some point.

[Burney]

And at what age did this stop?

Stop? Sorry, I don't follow you.

[Luis Anaconda]

Stop? Sorry, I don't follow you.

:-) No wonder your Christmas will be fun

[Monty92]

However, it's equally prevalent for people who believed in Santa and the tooth fairy as children and were surrounded by religion to grow up without the merest smidgeon of religious faith. I managed it, as did you and - I presume - your good lady, so why do you think your son won't be able to do the same?

Also, if you really want to avoid the whole religion thing, oughtn't you logically to be banning Christmas altogether?

It's not just about religion. I think credulousness is essentially a bug in our human hardware that can mestastasise if you don't catch it early. I know I risk sounding a bit fanatical, but it's really about nothing more than wanting my kids to fulfill their intellectual potential (something I personally feel short-changed about).

Regarding Christmas, I have no problem with traditions and customs deriving from religion that have taken on secular forms. There is no conceit to Christmas.

[Pokster]

And at what age did this stop?

You assume he's stopped

[Burney]

It's not just about religion. I think credulousness is essentially a bug in our human hardware that can mestastise if you don't catch it early. I know I risk sounding a bit fanatical, but it's really about nothing more than wanting my kids to fulfill their intellectual potential (something I personally feel short-changed about).

Regarding Christmas, I have no problem with traditions and customs deriving from religion that have taken on secular veneers. There is no conceit to Christmas.

I'm not really clear how believing in Santa as a five year-old can stop one from fulfilling one's intellectual potential, tbh. It's a simply massive leap from believing in Santa to an all-consuming life of religious devotion and one that I'm not convinced has any basis in fact.

[World's End Stella]

It's not just about religion. I think credulousness is essentially a bug in our human hardware that can mestastasise if you don't catch it early. I know I risk sounding a bit fanatical, but it's really about nothing more than wanting my kids to fulfill their intellectual potential (something I personally feel short-changed about).

Regarding Christmas, I have no problem with traditions and customs deriving from religion that have taken on secular forms. There is no conceit to Christmas.

Simple, relevant and pertinent question here, I feel.

Monty, would you describe yourself as a control freak? Or, at least, partially one?

[Monty92]

Simple, relevant and pertinent question here, I feel.

Monty, would you describe yourself as a control freak? Or, at least, partially one?

I've always found that phrase a bit meaningless. Not least because everyone seems to call themselves a control freak as soon as they want something done properly that isn't entirely in their own hands.

So occasionally, yes, but not pathalogically. And I don't think anyone's ever suggested I am, that I can recall.

[Monty92]

I'm not really clear how believing in Santa as a five year-old can stop one from fulfilling one's intellectual potential, tbh. It's a simply massive leap from believing in Santa to an all-consuming life of religious devotion and one that I'm not convinced has any basis in fact.

As I said, it's very much not just about religion. You can be credulous about literally anything, Jeff.

Maybe you're right and it's unlikely to make a difference. But I don't see sufficient cost-benefit in letting the lie endure.

[Burney]

As I said, it's very much not just about religion. You can be credulous about literally anything, Jeff.

Maybe you're right and it's unlikely to make a difference. But I don't see sufficient cost-benefit in letting the lie endure.

Does this cost-benefit analysis include such things as them spending their adult lives moaning about how they weren't even allowed to believe in Father Christmas when they were kids because their dad had weird, North Londoney ideas about parenting?

[Monty92]

Does this cost-benefit analysis include such things as them spending their adult lives moaning about how they weren't even allowed to believe in Father Christmas when they were kids because their dad had weird, North Londoney ideas about parenting?

I don't worry too much about that, to be honest. I reckon I'm sufficiently non-weird about most other stuff to just about compensate...

[Burney]

I don't worry too much about that, to be honest. I reckon I'm sufficiently non-weird about most other stuff to just about compensate...

You'd be surprised what kids hold deep resentments about. I still get grief from my 18 year-old about a particular incident where I made her eat ratatouille when she was about 7. :rolleyes:

[Ash]

You'd be surprised what kids hold deep resentments about. I still get grief from my 18 year-old about a particular incident where I made her eat ratatouille when she was about 7. :rolleyes:

Rightly so, I think. Tyrant.

You, not her.

[Ash]

It's not just about religion. I think credulousness is essentially a bug in our human hardware that can mestastasise if you don't catch it early. I know I risk sounding a bit fanatical, but it's really about nothing more than wanting my kids to fulfill their intellectual potential (something I personally feel short-changed about).

Without credulity we'd never have come down from the trees in the first place. Seriously, without belief, the sun would fail to come up in the morning.

Instead a mere ball of flaming gas would appear over the horizon. You could grind the whole universe into dust and not find a single speck of justice, compassion, or love. All of these are our creations, from our imaginations, that make us human.

Also, you should have more belief in your child's abilities and more respect for their freedom. With an attitude like yours they might rebel and go off and become radical god-bothers of your least favourite variety, or something.

[Monty92]

Without credulity we'd never have come down from the trees in the first place. Seriously, without belief, the sun would fail to come up in the morning.

Instead a mere ball of flaming gas would appear over the horizon. You could grind the whole universe into dust and not find a single speck of justice, compassion, or love. All of these are our creations, from our imaginations, that make us human.

Also, you should have more belief in your child's abilities and more respect for their freedom. With an attitude like yours they might rebel and go off and become radical god-bothers of your least favourite variety, or something.

Nope. Justice, compassion and love are all driven by our evolutionary instinct. How they manifest is of course socially and culturally constructed but the instincts are innate.

And there is absolutely no need to believe in anything supernatural for anyone to live their lives according to these innate instincts.

[Luis Anaconda]

Nope. Justice, compassion and love are all driven by our evolutionary instinct. How they manifest is of course socially and culturally constructed but the instincts are innate.

And there is absolutely no need to believe in anything supernatural for anyone to live their lives according to these innate instincts.
I'm sure Mohammed Bin-Monty will thank you for your attitude one day. Probably save some money not buying him that bottle every year, now

[Burney]

I'm sure Mohammed Bin-Monty will thank you for your attitude one day. Probably save some money not buying him that bottle every year, now

:nono: Yusuf al-East-Finchley imo

[Monty92]

:nono: Yusuf al-East-Finchley imo

Mohampstead, actually

[World's End Stella]

Nope. Justice, compassion and love are all driven by our evolutionary instinct. How they manifest is of course socially and culturally constructed but the instincts are innate.

And there is absolutely no need to believe in anything supernatural for anyone to live their lives according to these innate instincts.

And yet man has always sought a greater truth, which suggests that there is an innate instinct which leads to this pursuit and consequently to a belief system of some kind.

And you sound very much like a control freak, if you don't mind me saying so. That could very well be because of your OCD combined with your love for your children and concern for their well being.

But you're thinking about it too much, Monty. The children will become what they will become. As long as you and your partner provide a loving and caring environment and encourage them to do their best, you've really done all that you can, or need to, do. The rest comes down to human genetics and fate, neither of which you control.

So chill and enjoy them for what they are and what they become.

[Burney]

And yet man has always sought a greater truth, which suggests that there is an innate instinct which leads to this pursuit and consequently to a belief system of some kind.

And you sound very much like a control freak, if you don't mind me saying so. That could very well be because of your OCD combined with your love for your children and concern for their well being.

But you're thinking about it too much, Monty. The children will become what they will become. As long as you and your partner provide a loving and caring environment and encourage them to do their best, you've really done all that you can, or need to, do. The rest comes down to human genetics and fate, neither of which you control.

So chill and enjoy them for what they are and what they become.

Well you say 'greater truth', but what you actually mean is 'comforting lie'. And it's not 'instinct' that leads us to seek that, it's the fear of eternal non-existence - the chilling fact that the Universe will carry on without us and not give a fück. That's not an innate instinct, it's just solipsism.

[Monty92]

Well you say 'greater truth', but what you actually mean is 'comforting lie'. And it's not 'instinct' that leads us to seek that, it's the fear of eternal non-existence - the chilling fact that the Universe will carry on without us and not give a fück. That's not an innate instinct, it's just solipsism.

Thank you......

[Burney]

Thank you......

This doesn't mean I don't think you're being a bit of a dick about Santa, btw.

[World's End Stella]

Well you say 'greater truth', but what you actually mean is 'comforting lie'. And it's not 'instinct' that leads us to seek that, it's the fear of eternal non-existence - the chilling fact that the Universe will carry on without us and not give a fück. That's not an innate instinct, it's just solipsism.

I'm looking at it from their perspective. A perspective that I have no intention of dismissing as easily as you do, Burney.

And you could classify the search for a greater truth as being as much an 'evolutionary instinct' as any of the examples that Monty gave.

[Burney]

I'm looking at it from their perspective. A perspective that I have no intention of dismissing as easily as you do, Burney.

And you could classify the search for a greater truth as being as much an 'evolutionary instinct' as any of the examples that Monty gave.

Man invented god in order to elevate the status of man. The whole purpose is to suggest that - uniquely among the creatures of the earth - man is simply too special just to die and turn to yuck, so must therefore have a special place in the heart of the creator that entails us - guess what? - surviving death in some form.
it's not hard to see how it works. We invent stories to explain the things we don't understand and which frighten us. And, since death is the ultimate unknowable, terrifying mystery, we invent gods to give it meaning and take the edge off it. It's all a perfectly rational response in a sense - nothing to do with any instinct other than fear.

[Monty92]

I'm looking at it from their perspective. A perspective that I have no intention of dismissing as easily as you do, Burney.

And you could classify the search for a greater truth as being as much an 'evolutionary instinct' as any of the examples that Monty gave.

The collorary of this point of view is that it's only our innate desire to pursue meaning where there is none that stops us from becoming nihilists. After all, if there is no greater truth, and if existence is meaningless, what is the point in being a kind, good, ethical person?

The point is that being a kind, good, ethical person is beneficial to us from an evolutionary perspective, and our instincts to be kind, good and ethical can very well come solely from these instincts, without any belief in anything greater.

[Ash]

Nope. Justice, compassion and love are all driven by our evolutionary instinct. How they manifest is of course socially and culturally constructed but the instincts are innate.

And there is absolutely no need to believe in anything supernatural for anyone to live their lives according to these innate instincts.

Well, of course everything is here for evolutionary reasons, but it doesn't mean that they don't require belief to function. I am diputing your claim that credulity, or credulousness as you had it, is a bug. It's not a bug it's a feature.

As an aside - we don't even directly experience the universe at all. Our senses are instruments which take readings of light, sound, temperature etc, and our brain takes these readings and constructs a hallucination based on the data, which we believe to be the real thing. Nobody knows what colour 'red' really is.

[Monty92]

Man invented god in order to elevate the status of man. The whole purpose is to suggest that - uniquely among the creatures of the earth - man is simply too special just to die and turn to yuck, so must therefore have a special place in the heart of the creator that entails us - guess what? - surviving death in some form.
it's not hard to see how it works. We invent stories to explain the things we don't understand and which frighten us. And, since death is the ultimate unknowable, terrifying mystery, we invent gods to give it meaning and take the edge off it. It's all a perfectly rational response in a sense - nothing to do with any instinct other than fear.

To be fair, my cat *is* going to heaven when he finally succumbs to the Good Aids

[Burney]

The collorary of this point of view is that it's only our innate desire to pursue meaning where there is none that stops us from becoming nihilists. After all, if there is no greater truth, and if existence is meaningless, what is the point in being a kind, good, ethical person?

The point is that being a kind, good, ethical person is beneficial to us from an evolutionary perspective, and our instincts to be kind, good and ethical can very well come solely from these instincts, without any belief in anything greater.

Also, human beings aren't very good at nihilism. It's an uncomfortable way of carrying on for anyone but a psychopath.

[World's End Stella]

The collorary of this point of view is that it's only our innate desire to pursue meaning where there is none that stops us from becoming nihilists. After all, if there is no greater truth, and if existence is meaningless, what is the point in being a kind, good, ethical person?

The point is that being a kind, good, ethical person is beneficial to us from an evolutionary perspective, and our instincts to be kind, good and ethical can very well come solely from these instincts, without any belief in anything greater.

I'm assuming you mean 'corollary'. :-)

I think the two are tightly related. As man evolved and his intellect improved he naturally, you could say instinctively, became more curious. This curiosity led to him searching for explanations, this led to religion, religion led to common sets of beliefs and to some extent therefore communities, communities led to the further exchange of ideas and beliefs and this increased the pace of cultural evolution etc etc etc.

It's difficult to break out the correlations and dependencies, impossible I would say even. But the pursuit of ideas and beliefs is as much an 'instinct' as anything you listed, I think. And religion cannot be easily disconnected from the instincts you refer to.

[redgunamo]

Well, of course everything is here for evolutionary reasons, but it doesn't mean that they don't require belief to function. I am diputing your claim that credulity, or credulousness as you had it, is a bug. It's not a bug it's a feature.

As an aside - we don't even directly experience the universe at all. Our senses are instruments which take readings of light, sound, temperature etc, and our brain takes these readings and constructs a hallucination based on the data, which we believe to be the real thing. Nobody knows what colour 'red' really is.

He's as black as your boot, imo.

Oh, I see what you mean. Sorry :homer:

[Burney]

To be fair, my cat *is* going to heaven when he finally succumbs to the Good Aids

Nope. No animals in heaven. Which, when you think about it is utterly fûcking ridiculous. Essentially it suggests God would go to all the trouble of creating beautiful, complex creatures like the higher mammals and then go "Yeah, they look great, but fûck 'em. I'm going to spend all eternity worrying about this slow, weak, ugly ape instead." It makes no sense and suggests yet again that if God did exist, he would be a frighteningly capricious bàstard with a frankly alarming lack of impulse control.

[redgunamo]

The collorary of this point of view is that it's only our innate desire to pursue meaning where there is none that stops us from becoming nihilists. After all, if there is no greater truth, and if existence is meaningless, what is the point in being a kind, good, ethical person?

The point is that being a kind, good, ethical person is beneficial to us from an evolutionary perspective, and our instincts to be kind, good and ethical can very well come solely from these instincts, without any belief in anything greater.

Is that so. Well then, your mum is beneficial to us from an evolutionary perspective.

[Sir C]

Nope. No animals in heaven. Which, when you think about it is utterly fûcking ridiculous. Essentially it suggests God would go to all the trouble of creating beautiful, complex creatures like the higher mammals and then go "Yeah, they look great, but fûck 'em. I'm going to spend all eternity worrying about this slow, weak, ugly ape instead." It makes no sense and suggests yet again that if God did exist, he would be a frighteningly capricious bàstard with a frankly alarming lack of impulse control.

With apologies, this is possibly the worst parcel of shíte ever to be posted on the internet. You should read something and educate yourself before you run off at the mouth and embarrass yourself, k?

387

[Burney]

With apologies, this is possibly the worst parcel of shíte ever to be posted on the internet. You should read something and educate yourself before you run off at the mouth and embarrass yourself, k?

387

But I've had loads of cats. Are they all going to rock up at the Rainbow Bridge? That will be awkward as they'll probably all start fighting.

[redgunamo]

With apologies, this is possibly the worst parcel of shíte ever to be posted on the internet. You should read something and educate yourself before you run off at the mouth and embarrass yourself, k?

387

Hear. Hear.

[Sir C]

But I've had loads of cats. Are they all going to rock up at the Rainbow Bridge? That will be awkward as they'll probably all start fighting.

Whaddya mean you've had 'loads' of cats? What do you do, give them away when you get bored? Eat them?

[Burney]

Whaddya mean you've had 'loads' of cats? What do you do, give them away when you get bored? Eat them?

Well, no. They just conk out after a bit, don't they? No staying power, your feline.

[Boxing24]

He's too young to give a shït, surely? He'd be happy with a cardboard box imo.

Trouser it.

Agree With you