Ash....Breivik's manifesto

[Monty92]

http://thecamelsnose.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/breivik-manifesto-summary-and.html

[Sir C]

http://thecamelsnose.blogspot.co.uk/2011/07/breivik-manifesto-summary-and.html

Jesus H Christ, is there any other dubious material you want to lodge on my hard drive? Got any links to peedo sites, at all?

[Monty92]

Jesus H Christ, is there any other dubious material you want to lodge on my hard drive? Got any links to peedo sites, at all?

I lodged some dubious material on your mum's hard drive last night

Anyway, I was just responding to Ash's incredulous response to the suggestion that Breivik was not acting to protect the west from subjugation.

[Burney]

Jesus H Christ, is there any other dubious material you want to lodge on my hard drive? Got any links to peedo sites, at all?

Still, we've got ISIS's house magazine and now Anders Breivik's manifesto. We'll at least have GCHQ seriously confused as to which sort of violent nutters we are. :shrug:

[Sir C]

Still, we've got ISIS's house magazine and now Anders Breivik's manifesto. We'll at least have GCHQ seriously confused as to which sort of violent nutters we are. :shrug:

But if they raid my house they'll find the DVD of Stalingrad and have me marked out as a radicalised neo-Nazi before you can say 'Simon Jenkins' :-(

[Burney]

But if they raid my house they'll find the DVD of Stalingrad and have me marked out as a radicalised neo-Nazi before you can say 'Simon Jenkins' :-(

I was looking at my bookshelves last night and on one shelf alone I have Kershaw's Biography of Hitler, Burleigh's History of The Third Reich, William L Shirer's History of the Third Reich, most of Anthony Beevor's books and more WWII stuff than you can shake a stick at. I would be well fücked. :-(

[eastgermanautos]

But if they raid my house they'll find the DVD of Stalingrad and have me marked out as a radicalised neo-Nazi before you can say 'Simon Jenkins' :-(

Why do you fools argue about this stuff? I worry that you are sapping the manly fluids of our great site, admitting impurities to our precious bodily fluids.

[eastgermanautos]

I was looking at my bookshelves last night and on one shelf alone I have Kershaw's Biography of Hitler, Burleigh's History of The Third Reich, William L Shirer's History of the Third Reich, most of Anthony Beevor's books and more WWII stuff than you can shake a stick at. I would be well fücked. :-(

Shirer, how gay. A far better read, although a bit off topic, is my bud's graphic novel devoted to the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. Kickin' it Gibbon style!

[Burney]

Why do you fools argue about this stuff? I worry that you are sapping the manly fluids of our great site, admitting impurities to our precious bodily fluids.

Your mum saps my manly fluids.

[Burney]

Shirer, how gay. A far better read, although a bit off topic, is my bud's graphic novel devoted to the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. Kickin' it Gibbon style!

Shirer's book is interesting largely as reportage from a guy who was there at the time rather than as serious history.

I of course have read Gibbon. The idea of it as a comic is...interesting. Did you know he had a testicle the size of a small baby? Gibbon, that is, not your friend.

[eastgermanautos]

Your mum saps my manly fluids.

Probably so. :-D .

[eastgermanautos]

Shirer's book is interesting largely as reportage from a guy who was there at the time rather than as serious history.

I of course have read Gibbon. The idea of it as a comic is...interesting. Did you know he had a testicle the size of a small baby? Gibbon, that is, not your friend.

Wow! Fun fact. .

[Sir C]

Why do you fools argue about this stuff? I worry that you are sapping the manly fluids of our great site, admitting impurities to our precious bodily fluids.

'Fools'? This is online bullying and I won't stand for it. I demand a safe space.

[eastgermanautos]

Wow! Fun fact. .

I seem to recall reading a section devoted to Caracalla.

[Burney]

I seem to recall reading a section devoted to Caracalla.

Yes. Like so many Roman Emperors, he fell foul of the Parthians. They never really got the hang of Johnny Parthian.

[eastgermanautos]

Yes. Like so many Roman Emperors, he fell foul of the Parthians. They never really got the hang of Johnny Parthian.

:hehe: Yup.

[Ash]

Anyway, I was just responding to Ash's incredulous response to the suggestion that Breivik was not acting to protect the west from subjugation.

So what if he thinks he's doing that? He thinks he can save Europe from Islam by killing the multiculturalist left until they go away, while ISIS want to Islamise Europe by killing infidels until they submit. Opposite causes but same operating procedures. :shrug:

My incredulity was not about his objectives but your seeming to think that he is achieving them.

[Monty92]

So what if he thinks he's doing that? He thinks he can save Europe from Islam by killing the multiculturalist left until they go away, while ISIS want to Islamise Europe by killing infidels until they submit. Opposite causes but same operating procedures. :shrug:

My incredulity was not about his objectives but your seeming to think that he is achieving them.

Can you point me towards a post in which I make any implicit or explicit reference to the relative success or otherwise of these people's objectives? Certainly your response to my original point ("Acting to protect the west from subjugation? Really? You are joking, right?) Did not make clear that this was what you were picking me up on.

You did seem to be making the very specific point, more than once, that these people are one and the same.

"...the freelance nutters like Mr Stabby of Bloomsbury are just nutters like this Thomas Nightmare fellow."

“A mere technical detail, subject to the context of the belief system. Otherwise they're pretty similar imo.”

Do you still deny the distinction?

[Ash]

Can you point me towards a post in which I make any implicit or explicit reference to the relative success or otherwise of these people's objectives? Certainly your response to my original point ("Acting to protect the west from subjugation? Really? You are joking, right?) Did not make clear that this was what you were picking me up on.

You did seem to be making the very specific point, more than once, that these people are one and the same.

"...the freelance nutters like Mr Stabby of Bloomsbury are just nutters like this Thomas Nightmare fellow."

“A mere technical detail, subject to the context of the belief system. Otherwise they're pretty similar imo.”

Do you still deny the distinction?

I should have said that I may have misunderstood that you thought they were achieving those objectives, and of course I didn't believe you could be thinking that. So that's that bit sorted.

The bigly point is that I do not see that the distinction of political aims stops them all being terrorists. Footballers and cricketers are both subsets of the category sportsmen. Ultra-right-wing terrorists and Islamist terrorists are subsets of the category terrorists. I don't see why this should seem mysterious.

[Sir C]

I should have said that I may have misunderstood that you thought they were achieving those objectives, and of course I didn't believe you could be thinking that. So that's that bit sorted.

The bigly point is that I do not see that the distinction of political aims stops them all being terrorists. Footballers and cricketers are both subsets of the category sportsmen. Ultra-right-wing terrorists and Islamist terrorists are subsets of the category terrorists. I don't see why this should seem mysterious.

I tend to think of terrorists as affiliated to a particular group, though. I mean, if I were to decide that my political goal was the freedom to abuse monty, and if I raped him at gunpoint to further my goal, that wouldn't make me a terrorist, would it? It would make me a lone nutter. A sexually gratified lone nutter, admittedly, but a lone nutter nonetheless.

I appreciate that this is a rather strange analogy but I was taken by the mental image of me raping monty at gunpoint.

Back in 5.

[Monty92]

I tend to think of terrorists as affiliated to a particular group, though. I mean, if I were to decide that my political goal was the freedom to abuse monty, and if I raped him at gunpoint to further my goal, that wouldn't make me a terrorist, would it? It would make me a lone nutter. A sexually gratified lone nutter, admittedly, but a lone nutter nonetheless.

I appreciate that this is a rather strange analogy but I was taken by the mental image of me raping monty at gunpoint.

Back in 5.

You wouldn't need a gun, sweety

[Ash]

I tend to think of terrorists as affiliated to a particular group, though. I mean, if I were to decide that my political goal was the freedom to abuse monty, and if I raped him at gunpoint to further my goal, that wouldn't make me a terrorist, would it? It would make me a lone nutter. A sexually gratified lone nutter, admittedly, but a lone nutter nonetheless.

I appreciate that this is a rather strange analogy but I was taken by the mental image of me raping monty at gunpoint.

Back in 5.

Ah, well I can get more into the distinction between the lone nutter and the organised group. We just have to apply the terms consistently. So if Mr Stabby from Bloomsbury is a terrorist, then Mr Nazi Memorabilia is too. Or if one is instead mentally ill, then the other is too.

[Monty92]

Ah, well I can get more into the distinction between the lone nutter and the organised group. We just have to apply the terms consistently. So if Mr Stabby from Bloomsbury is a terrorist, then Mr Nazi Memorabilia is too. Or if one is instead mentally ill, then the other is too.

Yes, but once you know that Mr Stabby Bloomsbury is a Muslim you are required to stretch the definition of ‘mentally ill’ much wider than you do with Mr Nazi Memorabilia in order for the label to fit.

[Burney]

Ah, well I can get more into the distinction between the lone nutter and the organised group. We just have to apply the terms consistently. So if Mr Stabby from Bloomsbury is a terrorist, then Mr Nazi Memorabilia is too. Or if one is instead mentally ill, then the other is too.

What's interesting, though, is how quick the authorities were to rule out mental illness in the case of Thomas Mair and how quick they are to rule it in in the case of Mr Al-Stabby.

For me, no-one can have cupboards containing only ketchup, beans, evaporated milk, biscuits and salt and be sane.

[Monty92]

What's interesting, though, is how quick the authorities were to rule out mental illness in the case of Thomas Mair and how quick they are to rule it in in the case of Mr Al-Stabby.

For me, no-one can have cupboards containing only ketchup, beans, evaporated milk, biscuits and salt and be sane.

The authorities have to play up the "lone wolf mentally ill" angle when muslims commit acts of violence, otherwise it will stoke Islamophobia and lead to innocent muslims being stigmatised and abused

Whereas, of course, playing up white, non-muslim violent acts as politically motivated has absolutely no consequences and doesn’t at all feed into the Islamo-fascist persecution narrative.

That was sarcasm, by the way.

[Burney]

The authorities have to play up the ‘lone wolf’ mental illness angle when muslims commit acts of violence, otherwise it will stoke Islamophobia and lead to innocent muslims being stigmatised and abused

Whereas, of course, presenting white, non-muslim violent acts as politically motivated has absolutely no consequences and doesn’t at all feed into the Islamo-fascist persecution narrative.

That was sarcasm, by the way.

Dan Hodges on Twitter earlier: "Thomas Mair. Anders Breivik. David Copeland. Timothy McVeigh. Is it becoming rational to fear white, right-wing men?" This as part of his ongoing campaign to assert that any fear of Islam is racism.

It is hard to believe how an educated adult cannot see how monumentally fùcking stupid that assertion is, but there it is. :shakehead:

[Monty92]

Dan Hodges on Twitter earlier: "Thomas Mair. Anders Breivik. David Copeland. Timothy McVeigh. Is it becoming rational to fear white, right-wing men?" This as part of his ongoing campaign to assert that any fear of Islam is racism.

It is hard to believe how an educated adult cannot see how monumentally fùcking stupid that assertion is, but there it is. :shakehead:

I heard a while back that he's known to be many politicians' favourite political commentator. He strikes me as a monumental cretin who is wrong about almost everything.

[Burney]

I heard a while back that he's known to be many politicians' favourite political commentator. He strikes me as a monumental cretin who is wrong about almost everything.

His main schtick was being an exiled Blairite who took to writing bitterly in The Telegraph about how Ed Miliband was totally fùcking useless and would never be Prime Minister - a role he is continuing about Corbyn. This stating of the obvious apart, yes, he has been wrong about virtually everything else.
He's also Glenda Jackson's son, so has to live with the fact that everyone's seen his mum's hairy growler. :-(
And he has one eye.