Future wars need greater care..

[7sisters]

Chilcots words of wisdom.. 5 words infact, even though the documents ran to 12 volumes and racked up 2.5 million words. Three times longer than the Bible.
10.5m to the tax payer... Kerchiiiing !

Jesus wept :hehe:

[Luis Anaconda]

Chilcots words of wisdom.. 5 words infact, even though the documents ran to 12 volumes and racked up 2.5 million words. Three times longer than the Bible.
10.5m to the tax payer... Kerchiiiing !

Jesus wept :hehe:

Do you normally just read a headline and not the story then 7?

[Sir C]

Chilcots words of wisdom.. 5 words infact, even though the documents ran to 12 volumes and racked up 2.5 million words. Three times longer than the Bible.
10.5m to the tax payer... Kerchiiiing !

Jesus wept :hehe:

Hold on, you're saying there are too few words, but there are too many words?

Right.

[Herbette Chapman - aged 15]

Hold on, you're saying there are too few words, but there are too many words?

Right.

He would appear to be saying that we the taxpayer have been riffed to the tune of 2.5 million words at £4.50 /word when a single sentence would have done.

[Sir C]

He would appear to be saying that we the taxpayer have been riffed to the tune of 2.5 million words at £4.50 /word when a single sentence would have done.

He must be a ****ing quick reader to have got through the whole thing already, analysed the details, and come to this conclusion.

wd 7.

[7sisters]

Do you normally just read a headline and not the story then 7?

On this occasion, there's really little point in reading anymore.
The whole thing was part of a reactive lesson, built on the back of 9-11 retribution, fuelled by overwhelming public demand.
Get the bad guy. He needs to be made an example. He's harbouring/training terrorists..

We'll dress the whole thing up under ' weapons of mass destruction '..

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

....fuelled by overwhelming public demand...

Are you sure?

[7sisters]

Are you sure?

Post 911, absolutely.. We all wanted to see something done there and then. Bush, primarily, had to show face to his electorate.
Put simply, some muslim **** had to pay.. Any **** basically.. Hussein was an obvious target.

[Ash]

Post 911, absolutely.. We all wanted to see something done there and then. Bush, primarily, had to show face to his electorate.
Put simply, some muslim **** had to pay.. Any **** basically.. Hussein was an obvious target.

There was a huge public opposition. 2 million took to the streets to oppose it. How many took to the streets to demand a war against Iraq? None at all, as far as I recall.

Though re-reading your post above does reveal an alarming lust for hoping that "some muslim **** had to pay", so perhaps you were all for the war at the time, and for rather dodgy reasons.

[7sisters]

I'd be pretty confident that the majority opinion was for some type of action. The silent vote is often shown to be the larger.
People taking to the streets is one measure but empty vessels always make the most noise.

911 was an act of terrorism too far for many. The mistake was in not taking him out following the Kuwait attack.
Overall, I'm quite relaxed that he was removed from the equation despite the dubious legitimacy of the operation.

[Ash]

I'd be pretty confident that the majority opinion was for some type of action. The silent vote is often shown to be the larger.
People taking to the streets is one measure but empty vessels always make the most noise.

911 was an act of terrorism too far for many. The mistake was in not taking him out following the Kuwait attack.
Overall, I'm quite relaxed that he was removed from the equation despite the dubious legitimacy of the operation.

I'm not an empty vessel, if you don't mind. My opposition to the war was based on the fact that, in addition to it being waged on false pretences, an understanding that smashing up countries out of some sort of therapeutic urge to 'do something' makes tends to make things worse rather than better.

The result of the Iraq war was more than the 179 British service personel who were killed. The chaos it unleashed has led to the deaths of possibly 00's of 000's of civilians and the power vacuum has contributed to the current situation with Islamic State. Interventions in Libya and Syria, with the similar intention of 'getting rid of the bad guy' have also led to chaos, instability and extremism. These are the lessons we should be learning.

And, btw, are you the last person in the world to realise that Saddam had nothing to do with 911?

[Luis Anaconda]

On this occasion, there's really little point in reading anymore.
The whole thing was part of a reactive lesson, built on the back of 9-11 retribution, fuelled by overwhelming public demand.
Get the bad guy. He needs to be made an example. He's harbouring/training terrorists..

We'll dress the whole thing up under ' weapons of mass destruction '..
Jesus wept - Jesus ****ing wept, 7s - you clearly have missed the mother of all points here.****ing hell

[Luis Anaconda]

I'd be pretty confident that the majority opinion was for some type of action. The silent vote is often shown to be the larger.
People taking to the streets is one measure but empty vessels always make the most noise.

911 was an act of terrorism too far for many. The mistake was in not taking him out following the Kuwait attack.
Overall, I'm quite relaxed that he was removed from the equation despite the dubious legitimacy of the operation.
Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge

And christ - you are ignorant. You realise Saddam's Baath party was a secular party (his deputy Prime Minister was of course a Christian)

[7sisters]

People fight wars and many die.. That's how things tend to play out. What bothers me is the chattering classes who expect to get things done by 'negotiation '.
Dictators have a tendency to engage, smile and send you on your way, laughing all the back from the airport.
Let's not forget he wiped out 500k of his own people. What did you expect the likes of Bush and Blair to do exactly... nothing ?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Doing nothing was no longer an option. Neither of us know how many civvies would have continued to die. The bloke appeared hell bent on ethic cleaning after all.
I'm not even going there with the 911 comment.

[7sisters]

You do realise the ' any muslim **** will do' comment was employed as an expression of self righteous ignorance.. right ?

[Luis Anaconda]

People fight wars and many die.. That's how things tend to play out. What bothers me is the chattering classes who expect to get things done by 'negotiation '.
Dictators have a tendency to engage, smile and send you on your way, laughing all the back from the airport.
Let's not forget he wiped out 500k of his own people. What did you expect the likes of Bush and Blair to do exactly... nothing ?
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Doing nothing was no longer an option.
I'm not even going there with the 911 comment.

Of course doing nothing is an option - they are quite happy to do nothing about many other states with appalling records of violence t to their own people. Your ignorance is absolutely staggering

[7sisters]

Your naivety bothers me just as much. What you can't calculate is the unknown death toll that would have ensued had we done nothing.
He didn't appear to have much of a conscience while gassing kurds and slaughtering shi'ites

[Luis Anaconda]

Your naivety bothers me just as much. What you can't calculate is the unknown death toll that would have ensued had we done nothing.
He didn't appear to have much of a conscience while gassing kurds and slaughtering shi'ites
Me naive? :hehe: Read your posts - we bomb bad man bad man go away - that didn't really happen now did it? Don't worry - just swallow the lies if it makes you feel better.

And at no point have I ever defended Saddam - you seem to think I have, possibly because it makes you feel like you have a valid argument

[7sisters]

Me naive? :hehe: Read your posts - we bomb bad man bad man go away - that didn't really happen now did it? Don't worry - just swallow the lies if it makes you feel better.

And at no point have I ever defended Saddam - you seem to think I have, possibly because it makes you feel like you have a valid argument

Well of course it happened. He's dead isn't he ?
I'm not accusing you of defending Saddam but you, along with many, seem to want to live in some sort of an immaculate conflict world, where no one dies and everything gets played out with the approval and consent of all.

When did that ever happen ?

[Ash]

Let's not forget he wiped out 500k of his own people.

Arguing over very high numbers of dead people is never the most dignified discussion but I think that most sober estimates are less than half of that, and most of them Kurds during the Iran-Iraq war at a time when Saddam had the backing of the US.

[Burney]

Yes, yes, but could someone please tell me what conceivable purpose this rather silly report served? Everyone's left feeling a bit miffed and no-one's any the wiser. Why must we navel-gaze about absolutely everything? Why can't we just chalk it up to experience and move on?

[7sisters]

Arguing over very high numbers of dead people is never the most dignified discussion but I think that most sober estimates are less than half of that, and most of them Kurds during the Iran-Iraq war at a time when Saddam had the backing of the US.

I think we can all agree that the war was unlawful. I still believe that removing him from a position of power was the right thing to do.
He wasn't some Tito type figure that held things together. I've no idea how things will play out in that region. Would the current situation even had happened were it not for Iraq's debt, following the Iran - Iraq war. I'm sure there was a point where he threatened to wipe out half of Israel, amidst blowing the caps form every oil well in Kuwait.

[7sisters]

Because the left want to make some capital gain out of the thing and hang Blair out to dry.
It's all become a bit Hillsborough for my liking.

[Ash]

Because the left want to make some capital gain out of the thing and hang Blair out to dry.
It's all become a bit Hillsborough for my liking.

There is something a bit Hillsborough about some of the comments of the famlies of the bereaved. "You murdered my son". If you sign up for the Army you might have to go and fight and die in a war whether it should have been fought or not.

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

Post 911, absolutely.. We all wanted to see something done there and then. Bush, primarily, had to show face to his electorate.
Put simply, some muslim **** had to pay.. Any **** basically.. Hussein was an obvious target.


Good lord!!!

I'm guessing that you are one of those of the belief that Al Qaeda and ISIS are groups that exists to spread their form of Islam to the rest of the world?

[7sisters]

Good lord!!!

I'm guessing that you are one of those of the belief that Al Qaeda and ISIS are groups that exists to spread their form of Islam to the rest of the world?

You do realise that was a bit of a parody tenet for the outraged backlash of the day ?

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

I still believe that removing him from a position of power was the right thing to do.

Based on what?

[7sisters]

Based on what?

Seriously ?

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

Seriously ?

Yes!!!

I'm interested to know your views on why "removing him from a position of power was the right thing to do"?

[7sisters]

Yes!!!

I'm interested to know your views on why "removing him from a position of power was the right thing to do"?

As Churchill once quoted. An appeaser is someone who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. The thing that divides people is their perception of what would happen in the event we did nothing.
I'll always be of the view that if you allow an evil facist dictator to retrench and rebuild, there will come a day when you'll be dealing with potentially a much larger problem.
It's not as if the bloke was a stand out philanthropist.. right ?

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

As Churchill once quoted. An appeaser is someone who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last. The thing that divides people is their perception of what would happen in the event we did nothing.
I'll always be of the view that if you allow an evil facist dictator to retrench and rebuild, there will come a day when you'll be dealing with potentially a much larger problem.
It's not as if the bloke was a stand out philanthropist.. right ?

You didn't provide an answer, you just quoted Churchill. I'm interested in your opinion