That BBC 1 programme about whites in the East End

[Monty92]

Only saw the first half hour, but it was basically a not-particularly-subtle piss-take of white working class people, presented behind a thin veneer of earnest objectivity, wasn’t it?

So why have I seen it reported as immigrant-bashing?

[Burney]

Only saw the first half hour, but it was basically a not-particularly-subtle piss-take of white working class people, presented behind a thin veneer of earnest objectivity, wasn’t it?

So why have I seen it reported as immigrant-bashing?

It was an excellent ad for not living in Hornchurch, certainly.

[The Jorge]

Only saw the first half hour, but it was basically a not-particularly-subtle piss-take of white working class people, presented behind a thin veneer of earnest objectivity, wasn’t it?

So why have I seen it reported as immigrant-bashing?

That's most of the BBC's output whenever working class people are mentioned. See also any Radio 4 drama where they crowbar some radatard in to do their best "I ain not no never not seen nuffink loik it guvernooor".

[The Jorge]

It was an excellent ad for not living in Hornchurch, certainly.

I find Hornchurch itself, and also the people from Hornchurch, are also great ads for that.

[Monty92]

It was an excellent ad for not living in Hornchurch, certainly.

Can you imagine speaking like that? How do they not break down weeping every time they hear their own voice? Also, do you think they're aware that they are living embodiments of a caricature? Or do they instinctively assume that's "other people"?

[Burney]

Can you imagine speaking like that? How do they not break down weeping every time they hear their own voice? Also, do you think they're aware that they are living embodiments of a caricature? Or do they instinctively assume that's "other people"?

Well if you live in certain parts of Essex, virtually everybody else is like that, you see? So the issue never arises.

[Monty92]

Well if you live in certain parts of Essex, virtually everybody else is like that, you see? So the issue never arises.

But they must see stuff on TV like Little Britain and think "Oh, that's how we sound - why are they being laughed at?""

[Burney]

But they must see stuff on TV like Little Britain and think "Oh, that's how we sound - why are they being laughed at?""

You are crediting these people with middle class levels of self-consciousness and social anxiety they simply don't have.

[Monty92]

You are crediting these people with middle class levels of self-consciousness and social anxiety they simply don't have.

:-( You make being thick sound quite appealing

[Jake]

That's most of the BBC's output whenever working class people are mentioned. See also any Radio 4 drama where they crowbar some radatard in to do their best "I ain not no never not seen nuffink loik it guvernooor".

Eastenders?

[Burney]

:-( You make being thick sound quite appealing

I think it is. I was talking to one of them at a New Year's Party a few years back. Nice chap - worked as a Tesco delivery driver. I was talking to him about this and that and I asked him about something that was on the news at the time related to Tesco and he just shook his head, laughed and said 'Mate, you think too much'. :-(

[The Jorge]

Eastenders?

A great example of realistic, working-class drama

[The Jorge]

You are crediting these people with middle class levels of self-consciousness and social anxiety they simply don't have.

In their defence, they have the narrow-minded, suspicious, greedy and callous end of being middle class down pat though.

[Burney]

A great example of realistic, working-class drama

Yeah. And one that has basically ignored the massive demographic shifts in the East End over the last 15-20 years.

Realistically, everyone in Walford would either be a Hipster or an immigrant by now.

[Monty92]

I think it is. I was talking to one of them at a New Year's Party a few years back. Nice chap - worked as a Tesco delivery driver. I was talking to him about this and that and I asked him about something that was on the news at the time related to Tesco and he just shook his head, laughed and said 'Mate, you think too much'. :-(

Yeah, I've had that line thrown at me by idiots quite a few times, too.

Although saying that, isn't suicide the biggest killer of young working class men in the UK?

Needless to say, we had the last laugh :clap:

[Jake]

A great example of realistic, working-class drama

lol. Is it? I don't know. Just throwing it in there wondering if it adheres to your idea of the BBC's output, considering a large majority of the people they try to depict are the programme's viewers (and love it)...

[The Jorge]

Yeah. And one that has basically ignored the massive demographic shifts in the East End over the last 15-20 years.

Realistically, everyone in Walford would either be a Hipster or an immigrant by now.

In those houses? Probably bankers or start up miwyonaires

[The Jorge]

lol. Is it? I don't know. Just throwing it in there wondering if it adheres to your idea of the BBC's output, considering a large majority of the people they try to depict are the programme's viewers (and love it)...

Sorry, I shouldnt really need to put "/sarcasm" at the end of every bloody post, least of all with you.

[Burney]

Yeah, I've had that line thrown at me by idiots quite a few times, too.

Although saying that, isn't suicide the biggest killer of young working class men in the UK?

Needless to say, we had the last laugh :clap:

It just struck me that these people go through life never questioning stuff, not caring about politics, not caring about the news, never worrying how they are perceived by others (which explains the way they dress), never wondering if there isn't something better than all this out there (they know there is - it's called Disneyworld) and generally breezing through life without ever really worrying.

[Jake]

Sorry, I shouldnt really need to put "/sarcasm" at the end of every bloody post, least of all with you.

Oh I knew, it was a rhetorical q. More the point about it's working class viewers, or is that owing to the fact they aren't aware of the concept of parody etc?

[Sir C]

It just struck me that these people go through life never questioning stuff, not caring about politics, not caring about the news, never worrying how they are perceived by others (which explains the way they dress), never wondering if there isn't something better than all this out there (they know there is - it's called Disneyworld) and generally breezing through life without ever really worrying.

They do have those advantages, but they never get to appreciate, for example, a rare cote de boeuf with a good bearnaise, do they?

[redgunamo]

Yeah, I've had that line thrown at me by idiots quite a few times, too.

Although saying that, isn't suicide the biggest killer of young working class men in the UK?

Needless to say, we had the last laugh :clap:

That can't be true surely? Although I suppose it depends how they're defining "working class". As ever :-\

[Burney]

They do have those advantages, but they never get to appreciate, for example, a rare cote de boeuf with a good bearnaise, do they?

But they don't want one. Give them a curry on a Saturday night and an overcooked roast with Bisto on Sundays and they're happy.

[Jake]

It just struck me that these people go through life never questioning stuff, not caring about politics, not caring about the news, never worrying how they are perceived by others (which explains the way they dress), never wondering if there isn't something better than all this out there (they know there is - it's called Disneyworld) and generally breezing through life without ever really worrying.

But then why is mental illness most prevalent amongst the working class? Aren't they too daft to feel overwhelmingly unhappy about anything?

[redgunamo]

But then why is mental illness most prevalent amongst the working class? Aren't they too daft to feel overwhelmingly unhappy about anything?

Because the treatment is free?

[Burney]

But then why is mental illness most prevalent amongst the working class? Aren't they too daft to feel overwhelmingly unhappy about anything?

I'm thinking that's just the young, male ones. Probably it's the intelligent ones who've realised just how narrow a life they're condemned to and therefore decide to call it a night early. This leaves the field clear for the ones I've described to progress to a care-free middle age.

[Burney]

That can't be true surely? Although I suppose it depends how they're defining "working class". As ever :-\

And also how they're defining suicide, I reckon.

[Sir C]

But they don't want one. Give them a curry on a Saturday night and an overcooked roast with Bisto on Sundays and they're happy.

:-( They're... bovine, aren't they?

[The Jorge]

Oh I knew, it was a rhetorical q. More the point about it's working class viewers, or is that owing to the fact they aren't aware of the concept of parody etc?

More the fact they've no idea about working class people, or for that matter how they'd go about depicting them

[Monty92]

That can't be true surely? Although I suppose it depends how they're defining "working class". As ever :-\

I believe it is. Bigger killer than cancer.

[TheCurly]

That can't be true surely? Although I suppose it depends how they're defining "working class". As ever :-\

It's a shocking cult thing amongst the youth over here,r
Never had a job,don't have a prospect of one,reared like pigs,take drugs that would shame Keef :-( :-(

[Burney]

:-( They're... bovine, aren't they?

Essentially, yes. They seem to like life a certain way and anything that doesn't have a direct impact on that way of life is simply irrelevant to them.






P.S. Is Jorge ever going to bite?

[redgunamo]

And also how they're defining suicide, I reckon.

Right. And *who* is defining these things.

[redgunamo]

It's a shocking cult thing amongst the youth over here,r
Never had a job,don't have a prospect of one,reared like pigs,take drugs that would shame Keef :-( :-(

That describes my children, to be honest. Apart from the drugs, of course.

So far as I know.

[redgunamo]

More the fact they've no idea about working class people, or for that matter how they'd go about depicting them

The depiction is deliberate, imo. That's how you yourself would do it, if you wanted to banter them off, I reckon.

[Burney]

It's a shocking cult thing amongst the youth over here,r
Never had a job,don't have a prospect of one,reared like pigs,take drugs that would shame Keef :-( :-(

Have they considered that perhaps leaving Belfast might be a better bet than topping themselves, c?

[Jake]

Not so sure. The very reference of a storyline in Eastenders by a family in the programme this thread is about says otherwise.

[TheCurly]

Have they considered that perhaps leaving Belfast might be a better bet than topping themselves, c?

Many do yet more stay.If I was out of work for more than a month I'd be away to anywhere in a heartbeat

[Sir C]

Essentially, yes. They seem to like life a certain way and anything that doesn't have a direct impact on that way of life is simply irrelevant to them.






P.S. Is Jorge ever going to bite?

He probably hasn't noticed. He may be chewing the cud.

[The Jorge]

He probably hasn't noticed. He may be chewing the cud.

No, it's a mutual unbiting, I'm afriad.

Our worms will have to go unmasticated today

[Burney]

No, it's a mutual unbiting, I'm afriad.

Our worms will have to go unmasticated today

Is it because you fundamentally agree with rather a lot of my sentiments - albeit perhaps not with how I expressed them?

[The Jorge]

Is it because you fundamentally agree with rather a lot of my sentiments - albeit perhaps not with how I expressed them?

In a way yes, but also that I find the lack of self-awareness - whilst pointing out the lack of self-awareness in others - even more amusing.

[Ash]

It's a shocking cult thing amongst the youth over here,r
Never had a job,don't have a prospect of one,reared like pigs,take drugs that would shame Keef :-( :-(

Lumpen proletariate. If they never work they are not working class. I find it odd that when people see the word 'working' in the phrase 'working class' they transplant the word 'lower' onto it.

It's almost as if the real meaning of what working class is has been completely lost. People who have to work who have no stake in the ownership of the means of production. Most people, in fact, and not just people with little education, low-skilled jobs and rough regional accents.

[redgunamo]

Lumpen proletariate. If they never work they are not working class. I find it odd that when people see the word 'working' in the phrase 'working class' they transplant the word 'lower' onto it.

It's almost as if the real meaning of what working class is has been completely lost. People who have to work who have no stake in the ownership of the means of production. Most people, in fact, and not just people with little education, low-skilled jobs and rough regional accents.

It's complicated, for sure. I mean, could we describe David Beckham as anything other than working class?

[Ash]

It's complicated, for sure. I mean, could we describe David Beckham as anything other than working class?

Where you start and where you end up can be very different places.

[redgunamo]

Where you start and where you end up can be very different places.

Not to those doing the caricaturing though, I think. Rich folk with little education, low-skilled jobs and rough regional accents get bantered off just the same as if they were poor.

[7sisters]

But then why is mental illness most prevalent amongst the working class? Aren't they too daft to feel overwhelmingly unhappy about anything?

Even more so if they happen to be black, apparently .

[Ash]

Not to those doing the caricaturing though, I think. Rich folk with little education, low-skilled jobs and rough regional accents get bantered off just the same as if they were poor.

Well, that's snobbery for you :shrug: It's my point, in fact. Class tends to be considered in terms of snobbery and its inverse, rather than a (to me) more useful way of people understanding where they stand in relation to the production of value and the economy, and hence where their collective interests should lay.

[redgunamo]

Well, that's snobbery for you :shrug: It's my point, in fact. Class tends to be considered in terms of snobbery and its inverse, rather than a (to me) more useful way of people understanding where they stand in relation to the production of value and the economy, and hence where their collective interests should lay.

Yes, right. Just that nobody is interested in the collective. Not really.

Anyway, not *that* sort of collective. A family is a collective; that's alright, that's good and honest and positive. Football is a collective, but we're only interested in the fortunes of our own little bit of it, our club. And so on.

You and Jorge really need to watch more Michael Mann movies; for a marquee Hollywood film-maker, he's even further up your political alley than you are.