So it appears that Austria is about to choose either a hippy or a Nazi as president

[Burney]

Clearly the concept of the happy medium is lost on the dear old Austrians.

Amusingly the hippy is called Van der Bellend or something (OK, it's Van Der Bellen, but close enough imo)

[Luis Anaconda]

Clearly the concept of the happy medium is lost on the dear old Austrians.

Amusingly the hippy is called Van der Bellend or something (OK, it's Van Der Bellen, but close enough imo)

It's not like it matter who they choose, though is it?

I may have been here too long

[Burney]

It's not like it matter who they choose, though is it?

I may have been here too long

No, and they are a bit prone to the old Nazism, of course. It's our own fault (well, us and the US) for our baffling insistence on treating them as a victim of Nazi aggression rather than the perpetrators of it they so clearly were. This means they never got the full guilt-tripping Johnny German did and therefore thought it was just fine to elect war criminals and other fascists to high office.

[The Jorge]

I find Norbert Hofer quite an amusing name too.

I mean, an Austrian far-right populist, what could possibly go wrong?

[Burney]

I find Norbert Hofer quite an amusing name too.

I mean, an Austrian far-right populist, what could possibly go wrong?

Yes, I agree. It's knocked into a cocked hat by Van der Bellend, though.

[The Jorge]

Yes, I agree. It's knocked into a cocked hat by Van der Bellend, though.

Indeed, with not so much as even a glans back over his shoulder.

[Sir C]

I find Norbert Hofer quite an amusing name too.

I mean, an Austrian far-right populist, what could possibly go wrong?

I find this use of 'populist' ina derogatory sense problematic.

If we use the Wikipedia definition, 'Populism is a political outlook or disposition that appeals to the interests and conceptions (such as hopes and fears) of the general population', then, that's, like, democracy, isn't it? Representing the interests of the people? Representing your own interests would be more dictatory, surely?

[Burney]

I find this use of 'populist' ina derogatory sense problematic.

If we use the Wikipedia definition, 'Populism is a political outlook or disposition that appeals to the interests and conceptions (such as hopes and fears) of the general population', then, that's, like, democracy, isn't it? Representing the interests of the people? Representing your own interests would be more dictatory, surely?

Surely anyone's a populist when compared to Jeremy Corbyn? :shrug:

[The Jorge]

I find this use of 'populist' ina derogatory sense problematic.

If we use the Wikipedia definition, 'Populism is a political outlook or disposition that appeals to the interests and conceptions (such as hopes and fears) of the general population', then, that's, like, democracy, isn't it? Representing the interests of the people? Representing your own interests would be more dictatory, surely?

Surely that depends on whether you're populism focuses on people's hopes or their fears.

Like this one, for instance, clearly focusses on the fears, and to the expense of nearly all of the facts. I imean, they even get the population wrong.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/22/02/347B572700000578-3602672-image-a-33_1463880357948.jpg

[Sir C]

Surely anyone's a populist when compared to Jeremy Corbyn? :shrug:

:hehe: He's appealing to the interests and conceptions of a very particular, specific group, that's all. Same thing, smaller audience.

But am I wrong here? Addressing the issues of the population is, erm, politics, isn't it? Why is it sneered at?

[Sir C]

Surely that depends on whether you're populism focuses on people's hopes or their fears.

Like this one, for instance, clearly focusses on the fears, and to the expense of nearly all of the facts. I imean, they even get the population wrong.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/02b230449f750df147b3f85fa7ce060bae0b325a/542_0_3002_1801/master/3002.jpg?w=1920&q=55&auto=format&usm=12&fit=max&

"One cannot adddress hope without first confronting fear." His Holiness The Dalai Lama, 1982.

[Luis Anaconda]

No, and they are a bit prone to the old Nazism, of course. It's our own fault (well, us and the US) for our baffling insistence on treating them as a victim of Nazi aggression rather than the perpetrators of it they so clearly were. This means they never got the full guilt-tripping Johnny German did and therefore thought it was just fine to elect war criminals and other fascists to high office.

I blame the Sound of Music for that. You almost feel sorry for them though, no one takes them seriously. They are basically like a Germanic version of Wales

[The Jorge]

"One cannot adddress hope without first confronting fear." His Holiness The Dalai Lama, 1982.

I dont think they're confronting fear though, more like magnifying it for their own ends.

[Burney]

:hehe: He's appealing to the interests and conceptions of a very particular, specific group, that's all. Same thing, smaller audience.

But am I wrong here? Addressing the issues of the population is, erm, politics, isn't it? Why is it sneered at?

It has become a shorthand for pandering to the worst instincts of the electorate and/or being glib, but insubstantial.

[Sir C]

I dont think they're confronting fear though, more like magnifying it for their own ends.

You're not addressing what I asked, though. Isn't representing the issues of the electorate what politics is?

[SWv2]

I have fond memories of Austria from the 1978 World Cup, Hanz Krankl and all that.

[Sir C]

It has become a shorthand for pandering to the worst instincts of the electorate and/or being glib, but insubstantial.

Once more the Queen's English has become debased and *******ised, to confuse me?

**** them all in the ear. Everyone.

[Burney]

I blame the Sound of Music for that. You almost feel sorry for them though, no one takes them seriously. They are basically like a Germanic version of Wales

Yes. Although, unlike the Welsh, they were the big dogs once and sat at the centre of large, but ultimately rather silly empire.

[Sir C]

I have fond memories of Austria from the 1978 World Cup, Hanz Krankl and all that.

The Netherlands stopped their farting in church and no mistake.

[Burney]

I have fond memories of Austria from the 1978 World Cup, Hanz Krankl and all that.

I remember them and the Germans playing out a cynical 0-0 draw in 1982 in order to qualify from their group and Hugh Johns (aka Huge Ones) getting irate about it and never commentating on another game for ITV again.

[7sisters]

Clearly the concept of the happy medium is lost on the dear old Austrians.

Amusingly the hippy is called Van der Bellend or something (OK, it's Van Der Bellen, but close enough imo)

Yes.. Let's stampede to remain then. Piling in with an Austrian Nazi, Le Pen doing disturbingly well in France, Turkey potentially joining.. I'd be amazed they'll be any concensus at all going forwards.
Let's see now, 28 member countries, 5 more queueing up on the fringes. The whole things in danger of grinding to a beaurocratic halt within 5 years.
I really don't buy the scaremongering. Why not just keep the thing as a free trade area. :shrug:

[Burney]

Yes.. Let's stampede to remain then. Piling in with an Austrian Nazi, Le Pen doing disturbingly well in France, Turkey potentially joining.. I'd be amazed they'll be any concensus at all going forwards.
Let's see now, 28 member countries, 5 more queueing up on the fringes. The whole things in danger of grinding to a beaurocratic halt within 5 years.
I really don't buy the scaremongering. Why not just keep the thing as a free trade area. :shrug:

I think the larger truth that no-one wants to acknowledge is that in the long term, the whole thing is ****ed regardless of how we vote.

[eastgermanautos]

I think when people say populist they mean 'tyrannist.' Channeling the meritable Tocqueville, that is. French bloke, you limey fvcks would not have read him probably.

[The Jorge]

I think when people say populist they mean 'tyrannist.' Channeling the meritable Tocqueville, that is. French bloke, you limey fvcks would not have read him probably.

Tocqueville, pfffft. Torquemada is where it's at

[eastgermanautos]

Yeah I know but if they don't then China picks them off, one by one. I met this Chinese investor yesterday. And although I want her to put millions into my projects, there's no denying she's obnoxious. The entire world is on the menu to these people.

[TheCurly]

Congrats to Mr Bellend

[eastgermanautos]

Don't make me google it, bitch! Just don't. :hehe:

[7sisters]

I think the larger truth that no-one wants to acknowledge is that in the long term, the whole thing is ****ed regardless of how we vote.

I'm coming around to the view of short term pain, longer term gain.
You can't ignore the likelihood of problems when integrating a two or even three speed Europe, each pushing their own agendas.

[Burney]

I think when people say populist they mean 'tyrannist.' Channeling the meritable Tocqueville, that is. French bloke, you limey fvcks would not have read him probably.

Pffff. De Tocqueville basically didn't like democracy, though. Essentially, he believed that the state should be centralised and controlled by an all-powerful bureaucracy and as little power as possible should be given to those horrid people as possible - he was French, in other words. And his vision lives on in the EU.

[Burney]

Congrats to Mr Bellend

Yes. He's almost as good as that old Indian Prime Minister chap - Mr Hairy Vag Pie, I think it was.

[eastgermanautos]

I somewhat disagree. In terms of his place in history he came after the highly-centralized, bureaucratized Napoleonic state. He belonged to that class of aristocratic objectors to the said. After 1815 Toqueville's people had their day in the sun. Maybe you can say there's a parallel between the post-Napoleonic bureaucracy and that of post-Nazi Europe. Both periods had little use for huge, destructive battles. Not sure what the Continent is like to be honest. I'll find out soon enough. I mean to put these very questions to the people of Germany and Sweden.

[eastgermanautos]

Why does it not allow me to respond to a particular sub-thread? I was responding to Burney!

[7sisters]

Why does it not allow me to respond to a particular sub-thread? I was responding to Burney!

Flat viewing ****... Try the drop down arrow where it says 'Display '.. That way you'll get the threaded view.

[Herr Floyd]

Clearly the concept of the happy medium is lost on the dear old Austrians.

Amusingly the hippy is called Van der Bellend or something (OK, it's Van Der Bellen, but close enough imo)

Absolutely disgusting corrupt vote rigging by the lefty swine. Norbert was on course for a magnificent victory which of course signalled the treachorous communist left to intervene in their usual filthy manner. I simply will not tolerate this foul play and look forward to the continuing stuggle against evil. I am seething.

[The Jorge]

Absolutely disgusting corrupt vote rigging by the lefty swine. Norbert was on course for a magnificent victory which of course signalled the treachorous communist left to intervene in their usual filthy manner. I simply will not tolerate this foul play and look forward to the continuing stuggle against evil. I am seething.

God, dont you hate that? You know, these lefty swines using their power, money and influence to appeal to the slack jawed and prejudiced with their simplistic, hate fuelled argume.....oh

[The Jorge]

You're not addressing what I asked, though. Isn't representing the issues of the electorate what politics is?

Yes, of course. That said, the issues people are addressing can sometimes be very, very far away from what their actual plan actually is.

My point is a genuinely populist leader is a wonderful thing if he appeals to people's hopes. If he plays on their fears then it can, and often will, go very, very wrong.

And before anyone gets on to me about gendering, go **** yourselves - preferably in the ear, as I believe dem yoots are fond of saying.

[7sisters]

Yes, of course. That said, the issues people are addressing can sometimes be very, very far away from what their actual plan actually is.

My point is a genuinely populist leader is a wonderful thing if he appeals to people's hopes. If he plays on their fears then it can, and often will, go very, very wrong.

And before anyone gets on to me about gendering, go **** yourselves - preferably in the ear, as I believe dem yoots are fond of saying.

Message reported to the remain campaign..

[The Jorge]

Message reported to the remain campaign..

Patriot Pasty for the boy sevens

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/02858/01_11233512_303bbd_2858946a.jpg

[redgunamo]

Yes, of course. That said, the issues people are addressing can sometimes be very, very far away from what their actual plan actually is.

My point is a genuinely populist leader is a wonderful thing if he appeals to people's hopes. If he plays on their fears then it can, and often will, go very, very wrong.

And before anyone gets on to me about gendering, go **** yourselves - preferably in the ear, as I believe dem yoots are fond of saying.

I don't think anybody minds a bit of that, so long as everybody's doing it and it is understood.