So, what should we read into the fact that we finished above Spurs?

[Monty92]

I’m pretty sure every Arsenal fan who wants Wenger out would swap him for Pocchetino in a heartbeat. This must mean they believe Pocchetino is a better manager. How could it not?

But what evidence do we actually have that this is true?

[Ash]

As Neg pointed out as we left the ground on Sunday, Pooch needs a bigger fridge.

[Pat Vegas]

Can't read too much into it.

We had a poor season. Spurs looked good only because of the strange look of the table this year. We should be very disappointined we didn't make a better run at the the league.
usually matches against our top 4 competition was the problem. This season that wasn't a factor we did alright I think.

[Monty92]

As Neg pointed out as we left the ground on Sunday, Pooch needs a bigger fridge.

Clive: I literally have no idea what that means.

[Ash]

Clive: I literally have no idea what that means.

He means that they ran out of blood bags. #epo #drneg

[Monty92]

He means that they ran out of blood bags. #epo #drneg

Oh right. But seriously - what evidence is there that he's a better manager?

[Ash]

Oh right. But seriously - what evidence is there that he's a better manager?

To establish that one way or another, on the basis of one season, you might perhaps look at what each manager got out of the players they had, and how well they did with available funds to strengthen the team with transfers.

Perhaps look at what players earn as some indicator of their value, and compare that to the points scored in the league over the season.

[Chief Arrowhead]

I feel badly that I ever doubted Spurs ability to completely **** it up. In the face of all evidence over the past 21 years .... Lasagnegate, the "Minimum Season" (only played 40 matches!), the 2 point start 10 games in ... We could go on and on ... // I thought they would finish ahead of The Arsenal this season. I'll never doubt them again. To Dare is To **** It Up.

[redgunamo]

I’m pretty sure every Arsenal fan who wants Wenger out would swap him for Pocchetino in a heartbeat. This must mean they believe Pocchetino is a better manager. How could it not?

But what evidence do we actually have that this is true?

Certainly our supporters' patience deserves an awful lot of credit.

[Monty92]

Certainly our supporters' patience deserves an awful lot of credit.

According to our supporters, Wenger should have been sacked in 2001 (or earlier), for this is what big, ambitious clubs do. They sack managers who don't win things. This would have been a positive, pro-active move.

They would have sacrificed 2002 and 2004 to do the right thing, according to their doctrine.

This is what they say and so we must take them at their word.

[redgunamo]

According to our supporters, Wenger should have been sacked in 2001 (or earlier), for this is what big, ambitious clubs do. They sack managers who don't win things. This would have been a positive, pro-active move.

They would have sacrificed 2002 and 2004 to do the right thing, according to their doctrine.

This is what they say and so we must take them at their word.

If you like. Personally, I trust a man's cash, rather than his word. I gather we now make more money at the gate than any other football club in Europe.

Well done, gooners, imo.

[Ash]

According to our supporters

No.

SOME of our supporters want some things. Others want other things. Lumping all supporters together in one gelatinous unit is the analysis of, quite frankly, a thick ****.

I don't know why you do this all the time, despite it being patiently pointed out over and over again. Are you being deliberately obtuse because you think that it adds some rhetorical authority to your position, or are you just a very dense, reductive and limited thinker?

[Alberto Balsam Rodriguez]

Absolutely nothing new. Business as usual.

What's your point?

[barrybueno]

Wheres the like button? Newimb criticism imo

[Pokster]

According to our supporters, Wenger should have been sacked in 2001 (or earlier), for this is what big, ambitious clubs do. They sack managers who don't win things. This would have been a positive, pro-active move.

They would have sacrificed 2002 and 2004 to do the right thing, according to their doctrine.

This is what they say and so we must take them at their word.

Please show any Arsenal fans who said this... stop making **** up for the sake of it.

[Monty92]

No.

SOME of our supporters want some things. Others want other things. Lumping all supporters together in one gelatinous unit is the analysis of, quite frankly, a thick ****.

I don't know why you do this all the time, despite it being patiently pointed out over and over again. Are you being deliberately obtuse because you think that it adds some rhetorical authority to your position, or are you just a very dense, reductive and limited thinker?

Must I qualify every criticism of our fans with an acknowdgement that not all of them share the same opinions?
Can that not be taken as read?

I am of course talking primarily about the vocal minority who dictate the media line on all things Arsenal. But, actually, in the hypothetical case of Pocchetino vs Wenger, I actually think even the majority of our more moderate fans would come down on the side of Poch. And I'm questioning whether this is based on actual evidence, or simply a more benign strain of the impulsive idiocy that we see from the banner****s.

[Pokster]

Must I qualify every criticism of our fans with an acknowdgement that not all of them share the same opinions?
Can that not be taken as read?

I am of course talking primarily about the vocal minority who dictate the media line on all things Arsenal. But, actually, in the hypothetical case of Pocchetino vs Wenger, I actually think even the majority of our more moderate fans would come down on the side of Poch. And I'm questioning whether this is based on actual evidence, or simply a more benign strain of the impulsive idiocy that we see from the banner****s.

If Spurs had got a point from their last game would you have started this thread?

Spurs performances and the fasct they got as close as they did must give you some clues about how well the manager is doing?
They started off with less playing and cash resources and have a young team that have performed very well throughout the season, We have more money and a squad (on paper) that looks far better then theirs.

[redgunamo]

To establish that one way or another, on the basis of one season, you might perhaps look at what each manager got out of the players they had, and how well they did with available funds to strengthen the team with transfers.

Perhaps look at what players earn as some indicator of their value, and compare that to the points scored in the league over the season.

Yes, but M is deliberately asking the question in this way, believing that to answer it with anything other than unswerving support and affection for Wenger must automatically make one a KNC.

By now, we all know there's no real answer to this question, as the discussion has long since passed "better than" and moved on to merely "different to", "somebody, almost anybody else than". Indeed I seem to recall it was Berni who first suggested, years ago, that he was simply bored with Wenger and wished He'd just leave.

Presumably, this was before all the so called "snobby spastics" realised the high-handed, pompous and overweening fun to be had from identifying one's self as a steadfast Wenger fan and quickly changed their tune accordingly.

[Burney]

Yes, but M is deliberately asking the question in this way, believing that to answer it with anything other than unswerving support and affection for Wenger must automatically make one a KNC.

By now, we all know there's no real answer to this question, as the discussion has long since passed "better than" and moved on to merely "different to", "somebody, almost anybody else than". Indeed I seem to recall it was Berni who first suggested, years ago, that he was simply bored with Wenger and wished He'd just leave.

Presumably, this was before all the so called "snobby spastics" realised the high-handed, pompous and overweening fun to be had from identifying one's self as a steadfast Wenger fan and quickly changed their tune accordingly.

You're correct. I did say dem fings and I still feel that way if I'm honest. As a bit of a flibberty-gibbert in these matters, I would prefer something new and more interesting to happen - even if the outcome were (as it almost certainly will be) negative.
I made clear at the time, however, that this was not a logically or objectively defensible position in terms of the welfare of the club, but simply the feelings of some KNC who's a bit bored with the status quo.
All that said, I do find the sight of fans of the club continually slating the best manager we've ever had utterly repellent and would distance myself from them tout de suite. I am not and have never been of their party.
My feelings imply no criticism of Wenger, but are merely an expression of my own dilettantism and short attention span.

[Ash]

But, actually, in the hypothetical case of Pocchetino vs Wenger, I actually think even the majority of our more moderate fans would come down on the side of Poch. And I'm questioning whether this is based on actual evidence, or simply a more benign strain of the impulsive idiocy that we see from the banner****s.

What sort of evidence? A one-point gap? Or a comparison of player salaries to points won as suggested above?

[The Jorge]

What sort of evidence? A one-point gap? Or a comparison of player salaries to points won as suggested above?

You know this is Monty' schtick, you've known it for years. I dont get why it retains any element of surprise for you.

Polemics and even handed, equivocal statements arent ever going to be happy bedfellows.

[Luis Anaconda]

What sort of evidence? A one-point gap? Or a comparison of player salaries to points won as suggested above?

Perhaps evidence that even Arsene's biggest fan was busy writing valedictory posts on past glories, expecting failure, rather than launching a staunch defence on how he can bounce back and lead us back to the top might suggest Pochettino might be the better manager at the moment

http://www.awimb.com/showthread.php?593976-With-St-Totteringham-Day-firmly-down-the-****ter-for-this-year-we-should-all-take-a

[redgunamo]

You're correct. I did say dem fings and I still feel that way if I'm honest. As a bit of a flibberty-gibbert in these matters, I would prefer something new and more interesting to happen - even if the outcome were (as it almost certainly will be) negative.
I made clear at the time, however, that this was not a logically or objectively defensible position in terms of the welfare of the club, but simply the feelings of some KNC who's a bit bored with the status quo.
All that said, I do find the sight of fans of the club continually slating the best manager we've ever had utterly repellent and would distance myself from them tout de suite. I am not and have never been of their party.
My feelings imply no criticism of Wenger, but are merely an expression of my own dilettantism and short attention span.

Fair play. Perhaps you're actually more of a football fan than you'll readily accept. After all, Wenger Himself could've saved us all this by taking your advice :-\

[Ash]

You know this is Monty' schtick, you've known it for years. I dont get why it retains any element of surprise for you.

Polemics and even handed, equivocal statements arent ever going to be happy bedfellows.

True, but someone has to stand up and tell him to stop being a ****, all the same. It's how things work around here. :shrug:

[The Jorge]

Perhaps evidence that even Arsene's biggest fan was busy writing valedictory posts on past glories, expecting failure, rather than launching a staunch defence on how he can bounce back and lead us back to the top might suggest Pochettino might be the better manager at the moment

http://www.awimb.com/showthread.php?593976-With-St-Totteringham-Day-firmly-down-the-****ter-for-this-year-we-should-all-take-a

Heh. Also Mo never answered my pist

http://www.awimb.com/showthread.php?593976-With-St-Totteringham-Day-firmly-down-the-****ter-for-this-year-we-should-all-take-a

[The Jorge]

True, but someone has to stand up and tell him to stop being a ****, all the same. It's how things work around here. :shrug:

Yes, very true. Even if it's self-evident he never listens.

[Luis Anaconda]

Heh. Also Mo never answered my pist

http://www.awimb.com/showthread.php?593976-With-St-Totteringham-Day-firmly-down-the-****ter-for-this-year-we-should-all-take-a

He clearly pist off

[redgunamo]

Heh. Also Mo never answered my pist

http://www.awimb.com/showthread.php?593976-With-St-Totteringham-Day-firmly-down-the-****ter-for-this-year-we-should-all-take-a

Care to explain your 1860 v FCB point?

[Ash]

Perhaps evidence that even Arsene's biggest fan was busy writing valedictory posts on past glories, expecting failure, rather than launching a staunch defence on how he can bounce back and lead us back to the top might suggest Pochettino might be the better manager at the moment

http://www.awimb.com/showthread.php?593976-With-St-Totteringham-Day-firmly-down-the-****ter-for-this-year-we-should-all-take-a

:hehe:

Arsene seems quite impressed with Pooch as well.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/arsenal-boss-arsene-wenger-labels-mauricio-pochettino-hard-working-promising-1560669

[The Jorge]

Care to explain your 1860 v FCB point?

1860 arent really a comparable club to Brian, erm Brian. They've spent most of their time yo-yoing between the top division whilst Brian have basically won half of the available trophies.

[Monty92]

What sort of evidence? A one-point gap? Or a comparison of player salaries to points won as suggested above?

Off out now. Will come back to you on this later.

[Luis Anaconda]

1860 arent really a comparable club to Brian, erm Brian. They've spent most of their time yo-yoing between the top division whilst Brian have basically won half of the available trophies.

Never say that to a taxi driver in Munich, j - you probably wouldn't like where you'd end up. Having said that, apart from the whole racism and nazi connections thing 1860 fans are a lovely bunch of lads

[Sir C]

Never say that to a taxi driver in Munich, j - you probably wouldn't like where you'd end up. Having said that, apart from the whole racism and nazi connections thing 1860 fans are a lovely bunch of lads

Remember that bloke who saved us from dying in a blizzard by stopping on the Autobahn to pick us up? He was 1860, and a top, top man.

[The Jorge]

Never say that to a taxi driver in Munich, j - you probably wouldn't like where you'd end up. Having said that, apart from the whole racism and nazi connections thing 1860 fans are a lovely bunch of lads

I know, I know, but in terms of a comparable rivalry it's not even United and City pre-oil money, is it?

[redgunamo]

1860 arent really a comparable club to Brian, erm Brian. They've spent most of their time yo-yoing between the top division whilst Brian have basically won half of the available trophies.

So, they are not comparable because they are not comparable. I see.

[redgunamo]

I know, I know, but in terms of a comparable rivalry it's not even United and City pre-oil money, is it?

I thought the point M was making was that it is often the efforts of just one genius individual that makes all the difference; Ferguson, Wenger, Gerd Müller and so on.

[Luis Anaconda]

Not at all - particularly since Bayern are so powerful they can even dictate where 1860 play home games. Quite a few fans wanted them to go down to the third tier as then they would be allowed to go back to their old ground

[Luis Anaconda]

Remember that bloke who saved us from dying in a blizzard by stopping on the Autobahn to pick us up? He was 1860, and a top, top man.

He was indeed - they are in fact a sound bunch, just with a lot of nutters thrown in

[SWv2]

Personally I am not reading anything into it, similar to how I am not reading anything into Leicester winning the league.

I thought Spurs were at times superb this season, if a little limited outside their first 11. Their last 4 match capitulation was bizarre but then who are we to criticise such a phenomenon.

I don’t think Pochetinno failed, I do think Wenger failed.