Why do Everton want Martinez out?

[redgunamo]

He deserves a bit more time, I should've thought. Or has the money gone to their heads already?

[Pokster]

He deserves a bit more time, I should've thought. Or has the money gone to their heads already?

Because they are 11th in the table with the best squad I can remember them having in yrs.... and a manager who seems to prove he can't get a defence to pay together at every club he has managed

[redgunamo]

Because they are 11th in the table with the best squad I can remember them having in yrs.... and a manager who seems to prove he can't get a defence to pay together at every club he has managed

Yeah, fair enough. I see they have just 41 points. Leicester City being top has made everybody think too, I suppose.

[ghostlygunner]

strange one isnt it , i mean in terms of what trophies hes won he has achieved what wenger has in the last 10 years , winning the fa cup . only he did it with wigan and they actually beat man city in the final as opposed to hull or villa :D

still all other managers seem accountable for underperformance nowadays bar our own :(

[The Jorge]

He deserves a bit more time, I should've thought. Or has the money gone to their heads already?

Because zey lack character and ze mental strengzz

[Sir C]

strange one isnt it , i mean in terms of what trophies hes won he has achieved what wenger has in the last 10 years , winning the fa cup . only he did it with wigan and they actually beat man city in the final as opposed to hull or villa :D

still all other managers seem accountable for underperformance nowadays bar our own :(

Just out of interest, gg, do you follow a football team yourself? If so, which one?

[ghostlygunner]

you probably already know that ive been to more arsenal games than anyone on this board but nice try , the usual response you give when someone doesnt agree with your own opinion, call them unintelligent or question which team they support .

i must admit im looking forward to going tomorrow more than for a while though , it may be in vain but maybe we can put an end to whats happening to OUR club.

[redgunamo]

On its day anyway.


Just out of interest, gg, do you follow a football team yourself? If so, which one?

[The Jorge]

you probably already know that ive been to more arsenal games than anyone on this board but nice try , the usual response you give when someone doesnt agree with your own opinion, call them unintelligent or question which team they support .

i must admit im looking forward to going tomorrow more than for a while though , it may be in vain but maybe we can put an end to whats happening to OUR club.

Serious question, without an agenda, but do you not worry that the protests will negatively effect the team's performance?

[Sir C]

you probably already know that ive been to more arsenal games than anyone on this board but nice try , the usual response you give when someone doesnt agree with your own opinion, call them unintelligent or question which team they support .

i must admit im looking forward to going tomorrow more than for a while though , it may be in vain but maybe we can put an end to whats happening to OUR club.

Have you counted how many games everyone else has been to, then?

Cheer up. You're harshing my Friday buzz.

[ghostlygunner]

i do yes jorge and it s not ideal but people really are at their wits end i think and think there is no other option , maybe the villa game would have made more sense but it wont be on sky and with the late kick off tomorrow the atmosphere may be more inducive to a more vocal protest so i can see why it has been arranged for tomorrow , it will achieve much more coverage if successful and im still not sure how it will go but understand why it has come to this

you can say we have top 4 to clinch still but i really dont think people care about that anymore if he stays, ok more group games followed by an exit to the first decent team we draw

look i like wenger as a man and didnt want things to end like this , he really has had ample opportunity to go on a high but refuses to accept any opinion from elsewhere.

today he dismisses it is just a few fans , while saying we have won the championship away from home (not true anyway, we would be third , though to him a trophy i suppose!) and at home the reason we havent is the fans fault. it beggars belief

sadly his stubbornness is going to be his downfall

[ghostlygunner]

sir c yes i dont go to every away game now so ive probably been overtaken by a fair few

but just respect peoples views , they may be different to yours but we do all support the same club , even if at the moment not necessarily the people running it

[Sir C]

sir c yes i dont go to every away game now so ive probably been overtaken by a fair few

but just respect peoples views , they may be different to yours but we do all support the same club , even if at the moment not necessarily the people running it

I am afraid I have been worn down by the negativity, to the extent that I gave up my season ticket, having had one since 1978, because I couldn't bear the culture of entitlement and attendant moaning, so to be fair, it's not really my club any more, I suppose.

[The Jorge]

i do yes jorge and it s not ideal but people really are at their wits end i think and think there is no other option , maybe the villa game would have made more sense but it wont be on sky and with the late kick off tomorrow the atmosphere may be more inducive to a more vocal protest so i can see why it has been arranged for tomorrow , it will achieve much more coverage if successful and im still not sure how it will go but understand why it has come to this

you can say we have top 4 to clinch still but i really dont think people care about that anymore if he stays, ok more group games followed by an exit to the first decent team we draw

look i like wenger as a man and didnt want things to end like this , he really has had ample opportunity to go on a high but refuses to accept any opinion from elsewhere.

today he dismisses it is just a few fans , while saying we have won the championship away from home (not true anyway, we would be third , though to him a trophy i suppose!) and at home the reason we havent is the fans fault. it beggars belief

sadly his stubbornness is going to be his downfall

Hmmm, OK. It does come off as if you guys would be happy for us to not get a top four place. Also, in terms of doing it on this game, wouldnt the same effect be had by doing it at another game? It does seem as if you want maximum impact and embrassment. I get a lot of people say nice things to me about arsenal but the main thing now is about how spoiled, petulant and ungrateful our fans are behaving and how everyone would kill for someone like Arsene at their club.

Fair dos, each to their own etc.

[ghostlygunner]

i think most if not all should still want us to win the game but i think they feel missing top 4 strengthens any chance of him going. personally i would want top 4 but with another manager although that doesnt seem a likely combination at the moment.

i hear what you say about wenger and what other clubs would want him but i think this runs deeper than achievement by the team now.

£1000-2000 is a lot of money for a season ticket and more than anyone else pays and this is the main problem when £250mio is stockpiled and not spent over time with an openness from our owner that thats all he wants and not trophies, while the manager classes 4th as a trophy.

you cant have it both ways, if you are not going to be competitive than drop prices , if you are then spent some of that loot ?

so when you say ungrateful i think its more they feel cheated for what they are paying and of course the choice is there not to go but emotional attachment formed over generations is the issue there. and thats football i guess ?

[SWv2]

Hmmm, OK. It does come off as if you guys would be happy for us to not get a top four place..

I don’t think the whole top 4 and resultant 6-8-10 games in Europe is the drug for many that it appears to be for you and others.

We can argue until we are blue in the face, or until 4:45pm to be precise, whether or not this constitutes success. Personally I don’t equate it to same.

Additonal finances, yes. Finances which many see as simply being stockpiled as opposed to used as a means of strengthening our footballing position. The in-actions of last summer cementing this belief in the head of many.

Prestige? Not for me Clive.

[The Jorge]

i think most if not all should still want us to win the game but i think they feel missing top 4 strengthens any chance of him going. personally i would want top 4 but with another manager although that doesnt seem a likely combination at the moment.

i hear what you say about wenger and what other clubs would want him but i think this runs deeper than achievement by the team now.

£1000-2000 is a lot of money for a season ticket and more than anyone else pays and this is the main problem when £250mio is stockpiled and not spent over time with an openness from our owner that thats all he wants and not trophies, while the manager classes 4th as a trophy.

you cant have it both ways, if you are not going to be competitive than drop prices , if you are then spent some of that loot ?

so when you say ungrateful i think its more they feel cheated for what they are paying and of course the choice is there not to go but emotional attachment formed over generations is the issue there. and thats football i guess ?

I get that, I also get the reasons that money is there. I do hope that, with all the new TV money, they will actually drop prices, or at least meaningfully freeze them. At least for ST.

[ghostlygunner]

the reason many feel forced to renew is that they may not get back at a time that suits them better.

the danger for arsenal is if people get the feeling they can buy tickets game by game then that will be a hammer blow for kroenke as they will not get there wad upfront each year .

we are not there yet but there are some signs times could be a changing. whether they take notice or not tomorrow may be an early indicator.

[redgunamo]

I get that, I also get the reasons that money is there. I do hope that, with all the new TV money, they will actually drop prices, or at least meaningfully freeze them. At least for ST.

I think more and more people have realised that the whole "Money"-thing was simply a way for you AKB types to divert the conversation away from any criticism of Wenger, His signings, His style of play and so on. You can blame Leicester City for that particular revelation.

As you say though, One way or another, Wenger *will* be gone soon so it's probably wrong to get too worked up about forcing Him out at this late stage.

[Tony C]

The problem isn't Martinez....its Lukaku.

Ever since he cut his dreads off he lost all his skillz and has been incredibly rubbish....Christian benetek rubbish.

Seriously needs to grow them back.

Like the lad...would love to see up front with Welbeck for us but it has to be a require,net that he grows his dreads back.

[redgunamo]

The problem isn't Martinez....its Lukaku.

Ever since he cut his dreads off he lost all his skillz and has been incredibly rubbish....Christian benetek rubbish.

Seriously needs to grow them back.

Like the lad...would love to see up front with Welbeck for us but it has to be a require,net that he grows his dreads back.

That's a good point actually. I also want #welbz to get a haircut though too :-\

[7sisters]

[QUOTE=redgunamo;4108839]I think more and more people have realised that the whole "Money"-thing was simply a way for you AKB types to divert the conversation away from any criticism of Wenger, His signings, His style of play and so on. You can blame Leicester City for that particular revelation.

As you say though, One way or another, Wenger *will* be gone soon so it's probably wrong to get too worked up about forcing Him out at this late stage.[/QUO

Yep. That's about the size of it. Ghostly and his cohorts may aswell accept he'll be around next season and get behind the club. I think there's a fair chance that he'll make a couple of decent signings and we'll have a better season than this one. My only fear is that the old guard running the place may interpret this as a corner being turned and try to persuade the old ******* to sign for another three years. :-\

[Ash]

I think more and more people have realised that the whole "Money"-thing was simply a way for you AKB types to divert the conversation away from any criticism of Wenger, His signings, His style of play and so on. You can blame Leicester City for that particular revelation.


Leicester's success doesn't suddenly make money irrelevant. It is most likely that they are a one-off, an outlier. In fact despite making a couple of great value signings I gather that the club has been sugar-daddied for a while now to help propel it up the charts.

Ironically, why some like to say that their success proves Wenger wrong, it also shows that shrood signings can make a difference, which has always been one of AW's things.

[SWv2]

Sugar daddied?

Do you mean an owner injecting money into the business???

[Ash]

Sugar daddied?

Do you mean an owner injecting money into the business???

As opposed to the business injecting money into the business. It's just a metaphor :shrug:

[SWv2]

As opposed to the business injecting money into the business. It's just a metaphor :shrug:

I know, I just don’t see why such an action always has to be seen as wrong, or evil.

There was recently a suggestion of them falling foul of some ‘FFP’ based rulings from when they were in Division 1.

You’re aware I have no real massive issues with owners splashing cash / clubs spending money “they don’t have” as such.

[Ash]

I know, I just don’t see why such an action always has to be seen as wrong, or evil.


The moral character of the sourcing of the monies is not the point I was making. The fact that they have had some free monies is not evil, but it is relevant to reg's point, that Leicester have torpedoed Wenger's historic excuses.

[SWv2]

The moral character of the sourcing of the monies is not the point I was making. The fact that they have had some free monies is not evil, but it is relevant to reg's point, that Leicester have torpedoed Wenger's historic excuses.

I don't think Wenger has any more excuses to be honest.

For years he was able to use the rationale of having comparatively no money while others had free will to spend as they pleased, and indeed most - even the most ardent Wenger Outist - could accept this.

Now however he has money, lots of it, but chooses (we have to believe) from his own free will not to spend it - last summer for example. In essence a huge misjudgement of his own players / squad and the great intangible qualities he loves to continually harp on about.

Wenger out!

[Ash]

I don't think Wenger has any more excuses to be honest.

For years he was able to use the rationale of having comparatively no money while others had free will to spend as they pleased, and indeed most - even the most ardent Wenger Outist - could accept this.

Now however he has money, lots of it, but chooses (we have to believe) from his own free will not to spend it - last summer for example. In essence a huge misjudgement of his own players / squad and the great intangible qualities he loves to continually harp on about.

Wenger out!

That's why I said 'historic excuses' rather than contemporary ones. I actually wrote another sentance about being a top striker (eg Henry Kane) short of winning the league this season but deleted it for brevity. As usual, when I delete for brevity, the response is directed the area which would have been covered by the thing I deleted.

I agree that there are no excuses this year. I don't agree that this proves that there were no excuses for previous years.

[SWv2]

Agree.

This year is a one-off, an aberration, a freak and must be viewed as such.

Ranieiri winning the championship on a relative tiny budget (most expensive player = £10m) does not automatically equate to this having been a realistic achievement in previous years.

The traditional big clubs imploded this year, not just us. The next tier, or some of, stepped up. I have no idea what happens next year, the pre-2016 status quo or a more even and harder PL. The big clubs with new managers will spend heavily to try and avoid what has happened this year, others will also spend as there is so much money flowing around the PL now.

I am quite sure Wenger will not have a better (or perhaps ‘easier’) chance of winning it.

[redgunamo]

Leicester's success doesn't suddenly make money irrelevant. It is most likely that they are a one-off, an outlier. In fact despite making a couple of great value signings I gather that the club has been sugar-daddied for a while now to help propel it up the charts.

Ironically, why some like to say that their success proves Wenger wrong, it also shows that shrood signings can make a difference, which has always been one of AW's things.

Of course, but the point is, I think, that Wenger has stopped doing it (at least, enough of it to win us the league) and further has mischievously cited money as the reason. The players are overpriced. Or they don't exist. Or Chelsea have signed them all. Or FFP. Or whatever. It was most informative that, when questioned about this the other week, He cited Leicester City's examples (of shrood signings), rather than His own.

They have at least shown this is/or at least can be shown to be, *******s. We all knew this, of course, but everyone humoured Wenger while He was winning; it's just become more contentious now He's not.

After all, *He's* the one who's obsessed with top, top players, not the supporters. Fair enough, we all love Mesut and Alexis & Co. But the point is, we'd be equally happy with a bunch of no-hopers like Ranieri's squad too, happy in the firm belief that a genius like Wenger would be able to get them to the top of the league as well.

[redgunamo]

That's why I said 'historic excuses' rather than contemporary ones. I actually wrote another sentance about being a top striker (eg Henry Kane) short of winning the league this season but deleted it for brevity. As usual, when I delete for brevity, the response is directed the area which would have been covered by the thing I deleted.

I agree that there are no excuses this year. I don't agree that this proves that there were no excuses for previous years.

No, no, no.

Simply, we could have played better football with the players we had. However, rather than do this, we made the discussion all about players we *didn't* have.

That is the issue that Leicester City's success this year begins to prove, and Wenger and many supporters continue to try to skirt around, this season and for the decade past.

This is our greatest ever manager we are talking about, a genius.

[Ash]

No, no, no.

Simply, we could have played better football with the players we had. However, rather than do this, we made the discussion all about players we *didn't* have.

That is the issue that Leicester City's success this year begins to prove, and Wenger and many supporters continue to try to skirt around, this season and for the decade past.

This is our greatest ever manager we are talking about, a genius.


Both apply, really. Either we have a decent striker instead of Gircott, and they bang in enough of the 157 chances that Mezut created, or the other players play to their level rather than below it and get the goals from midfield. The fact that AW has been unable to get the midfield purring doesn't alter the fact that despte this, a decent striker would probably have been enough.

[redgunamo]

Both apply, really. Either we have a decent striker instead of Gircott, and they bang in enough of the 157 chances that Mezut created, or the other players play to their level rather than below it and get the goals from midfield. The fact that AW has been unable to get the midfield purring doesn't alter the fact that despite this, a decent striker would probably have been enough.

I agree. In fact, I think our lack of a top, top striker, (even a rubbish one from Fleetwood Town, say) actually absolves both Wenger and the team from censure for any failure to win the league. Personally, I reckon the thing to be nigh on impossible.

But that's just my views on football in general and *not* necessarily related to *our* team, even if it does happen to provide a fairly accurate illustration of the point. I think we do remarkably well, despite not having one.

It's possible I've made this point before :-\

[redgunamo]

That's why I said 'historic excuses' rather than contemporary ones. I actually wrote another sentance about being a top striker (eg Henry Kane) short of winning the league this season but deleted it for brevity. As usual, when I delete for brevity, the response is directed the area which would have been covered by the thing I deleted.

I agree that there are no excuses this year. I don't agree that this proves that there were no excuses for previous years.

Harry Kane is a good example. He was *our* player as late as 2001. Nothing to do with money at all.

[Snin]

Because he agrees that by saying your anti semetic when you critical of Israel plus mention zionist links to nazi plus anti English terrorism and bring up real history and facts mean your a cnut? Or some ****e...cuts. .****er .. Love you all ****s