Joan Bakewell - wrong to suggest that anorexia is narcissistic?

[Ashberto]

[Classic Jorge]

Mind you, back in the day you definitely would

http://ireneogrizek.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/p01jwqdn.jpg

[redgunamo]

[Luis Anaconda]

Brendan O'Neil banging on about twitch hunts. Jesus, he writes some ****e

[Monty91]

vanity, then yes she's wrong.

If she was talking about narcissism as a psychological condition, then of course she's correct to suggest there's a strong correlation.

[Classic Jorge]

Now I feel bad about about just concentrating on the "yeh but she woz well fit back in the day" angle.

But she was

[Monty91]

from the Swinging Sixties, does it?

A risque charity calendar would do. I’m really not fussy.

[Classic Jorge]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/fe/02/89/fe0289ff1eb7c55e14155c270f5ad013.jpg

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01298/PF-Joan3_1298149c.jpg

[Monty91]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

The socialists have spent 70 years persuading us that it's OK to be weak if you just make up an excuse. So we end up with allergies, asthma and gluten intolerance. Anorexia and transgendernonsense and addictions which simply aren't addictions.

Load of ****o rubbish, designed to weaken our society and bring it to its knees.

[Ashberto]

but anorexia is presumably more complicated than just vanity. I think she has a point, particularly in pointing out that you don't find anorexia in refugee camps. Assuming that the research indicated a lack of said condition in said circumstances.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

They always existed but we were ignorant of them.

People did not always die of cancer, they just died. But they did die of cancer.

[Ashberto]

http://img.news.sina.com/sports/p/2013/0227/U158P5029T2D566338F28DT20130228144048.jpg

[Luis Anaconda]

"So instead ofengaging [/b] Bakewell in debate, her critics slammed and shamed her, accusing her of ‘stigmatising’ sick young women, spreading ‘dangerous opinions’ and making life harder for ‘those struggling’ with the disease. They pathologised her words, turning them from mere opinions into physically dangerous things, liable to hurt minds and damage bodies – just as every censor in history has decreed that some thoughts are so toxic to the human spirit that they must be squished. "
O'Neil

"I spent much of the day engaging with these people and others, responding directly to their concerns."
Her own words

[Monty91]

mental illness. Surely only a cretin would believe that mental illness is only ever the result of a genetic inheritance.

Perhaps some people in Syria are predisposed to developing anorexia, but the environmental and cultural conditions in which they live mean it never germinates.

[Berni]

that you have something wrong with you (and clearly any chap who wants to go around in a frock and have his danglies removed has something seriously f**king wrong with them), but that you don't.

And then there is what follows when we are all told we should all simply accept that and pretend the outcome is marvellous rather than going 'No, but you're f**king mental, aren't you? We feel sorry for you and everything, but you do have to admit that you are seriously f**ked in the head."

I don't mind people being mental. It's being asked to pretend they're not that bothers me.

[Ashberto]

Of course I have no idea whether her opinion has genuinely changed or whether she said that to quell the reaction directed at her, but I think his point is valid, that whether or not she is right in her opinion, the "you can't say that" reaction to such opinions creates a censorious atmosphere that is contrary to the spirit of reasoned debate and discussion.

[Ashberto]

I'm fairly sure, from my family experience anyway, that certain conditions that might in some quarters be described as 'mental ilness' are hereditary.

[Monty91]

said yourself, it is still classified as a mental illness and the stringent counselling and psychological tests applied to anyone wanting surgery are, if anything, to confirm their desire is so deep-rooted it is the only solution. In other words, that they really are mental enough to want to go through with this.

[Monty91]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Like the so-called 'peanut allergy'.

Utter nonsense.

[Ashberto]

[Luis Anaconda]

censorious atmosphere exists can be greatly exaggerated to prove a point by people such O'Neill (another example, he talks of her being forced to leave Twitter, she was off it for all of a day). Amazing how many of these "Twitter storms" just follow the formula: person says something, people disagree, other people agree, life moves on. Kinda like free speech really.

and ftr - I would go along with Jorge and Monty's opinion pretty much

[Berni]

mentally ill by pretending they're not mentally ill. I have a problem with that. We don't do it in any other areas of mental illness, do we? We don't tell anorexics that they're fat and we don't tell paranoid schizophrenics that actually, yes, God is talking to them through their neighbour's dog. We treat them with drugs and counselling to disabuse them of their mentalness. We certainly don't put them on the front of Vanity Fair and reinforce their delusion, ffs!

And yet with transgenders we are all expected to collude in the delusions of the mentally ill. That is seriously f**king insane.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Trust me pal.

f**king weirdos the lot of them.

I have no allergies, naturally.

[Berni]

This was distressing as, with one thing or another, it meant I didn't get my hole that evening. :-(

[Ashberto]

I don't think we can dismiss all allergies, just because they are new. We can't rule out the possibility of new allergies emerging since the international communist conspiracy has been sapping and impurifying our precious bodily fluids.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

This ia an honest, decent, manly fear.

Also milk and rhubarb.

[Classic Jorge]

[Ashberto]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

having been on one all weekend. I thought everyone knew that?

[Ashberto]

[Berni]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

But especially cotton wool.

[Berni]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Queen also.

:-(

[Herbette Chapman - aged 15]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Prawn, pork or chicken, I treat them all equally. Chuck thon fluorescent gloop all over them and we're good to go.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Essentially you are a queer.

[Berni]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Don't be fooled.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Just dry them and get on with it.

[Berni]

The squeaking would be awful.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Ashberto]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

My testes have just retreated back into my gizzards :-(

[Berni]

And the way she started wheezing and insisting I called an ambulance.

Anything to get out of sex with me, I suppose :rolleyes:

[Herbette Chapman - aged 15]

the middle classes use when they can't be arsed to teach their kids to read* - dyslexia.

*No it's not the feckin schools job, it's your job.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

In all respects except the 'sex with men' part, I find myself homosexualer with each passing day.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

For years and years as a child I was subjected to it.

[Monty91]

over-compensating for the fact that a lot of unpleasant people discriminate against transgenders.

Just like when someone’s missus is extra nice to people to compensate for their partner being a c**t.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Berni]

My rhubarb would be a different thing altogether. :nod:

Basically what you do is use an unholy amount of sugar - otherwise it's totally f**king inedible to the point of toxicity imo.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

We're all in favour of pooves now over here.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

You'd be able to try white wine and appreciate colours.

[Berni]

On the plus side, it got me out of having to pay for the meal :thumbup:

[Berni]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Essentially the whole concept of a rhubarb crumble is the dessert equivalent of having a packet of Werthers Originals in the glove compartment of your car.

[Herbette Chapman - aged 15]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

The concept of drinking white wine is enough to put any man off having another man’s cock shoved up his ring.

[Berni]

For instance, if a broadcaster on the BBC tonight said that transgender people are mentally ill, would he/she have a job in the morning? Would a politician dare say such a thing? Or a public servant? Of course not. Thus is the rigid orthodoxy of a lie built and reinforced.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Berni]

I did know a chap who used to eat it raw sprinkled with sugar - much as one might sprinkle celery with salt. He was insane, obviously,

[Ashberto]

then, well, she's not coming from there any longer if her apology for suggesting such a thing is genuine, and not 'forced' by the suggestions that she was harming people (as she was accused of on twitter) by expressing it.

In other words - If she has changed her mind as a result of discussions following her comments, then this can be seen as the outcome of a healthy exchange of opinions, as you suggest. If she is pretending to take the new position though, to escape the opprobium, than that would imply a censorship imposed via a twitter-storm.

[Monty91]

I read the transcript of the link you posted on the Guardian recently about the politician speaking in Parliament about discrimination against men in the criminal justice system.

There you had the perfect example of someone speaking out against the “orthodoxy” but doing so in a balanced and reasonable way and with the facts to back up what he was saying.

I don’t believe anyone called for him to be sacked. On the contrary, his opponents were reduced to acknowledging the validity of his argument.

[Berni]

the contrary. Indeed, his opponents in the committee still did not accept his point despite the evidence because the orthodoxy was so deeply ingrained that it could never and can never be gainsayed. If anything, I would argue that that is a depressing example of just how pernicious polite lies can be when they calcify into orthodoxies.

Besides, you're ignoring the context. No broadcaster is going to dare say any such thing because they know they'd be crucified for it. A politician in a subcommittee nobody watches is a different thing.

[Monty91]

about transgenders beyond wanting to encourage people not to be c**ts to them.

That’s because most people consider their decision a lifestyle choice brought on by a psychological imperative, and the “orthodoxy” (which I believe you agree with) is that if someone’s lifestyle is legal and doesn’t impinge on other people, then they can do what they want.

[redgunamo]

[Ashberto]