I don't have a problem with any of this. The passenger did the right thing and

[Monty91]

security did the right thing :shrug:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/03/man-removed-e asyjet-flight-luton-prayer-message-phone (http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/mar/03/man-removed-easyjet-flight-luton-prayer-message-phone)

[Classic Jorge]

...has made it possible for religiousers of all forms, races and creeds to feel persecuted and victimised.

He should absolutely remain on any terror lists even though he's done bugger all wrong.

[Monty91]

It's horrible for everyone concerned, but crucially, more so for those who have good reason to not want to be placed under added scrutiny: i.e. those hell-bent on wanting us (and themselves) dead.

All I said was the actions of everyone concerned was what you'd hope and expect.

[Luis Anaconda]

apart from that you might be right. No fault on behalf of the security men

[Classic Jorge]

...here. Considerably moreso than anyone else too. I mean, not only has he had to suffer being ejected from the flight under armed guard but he's also been embarassed in the queue afterwards.

Then, and this is the bit I'm particularly interested in whether you think is still right, he seems to have been added to a sus list for travel.

I mean, just how is anybody supposed to get anything - not just bombs but good honest drugs and porny stuff - onto a plane nowadays? Surely the worst he's going to be able to do is cause a bit of a kerfuffle.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

[Classic Jorge]

By which I mean I'm actually an agnostic, because if you dont think there's a god it's not the same as knowing there's no god.

Maybe the poor fellow has a touch of the Bergkamps, like I do.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

As that has to be to some kind of made up God.

The fella who reported the prayer dude should have been f**ked off the plane for being a c**t.

[Luis Anaconda]

thrown off pretty much every flight that ever (eventually) takes off. God forbid you get on a plane with a bit of a beard

[Monty91]

What we might suppose happened is that he was put on this list during his initial interrogation, and was not immediately removed from it, i.e. a clerical error.

Of course, this is going to cause some upset to the innocent chap in question, but far better for mistakes of that nature to happen than for the kind of life or death mistakes that can happen in a climate of political correctnes-driven leniency.

[Luis Anaconda]

[Monty91]

f**king well want that c**t off the plane and spoken to before it goes anywhere.

Would you not?

[Classic Jorge]

As opposed to terrorism, refugees sweeping across our continent raping all before them or a overzelous government using all of the powers so carefully fearmongered off us to repress fundamental rights like freedom of speech, expression and association.

The lad Benny had it right in 1755 when he said "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

[Ashberto]

there.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

I don't go round thinking every Muslim looking dude is a terrorist, even then ones with the really big beards.

Similar to how every Irish man, even the very handsome suave ones, who lived in London during the troubles was not an active IRA recruit.

You sound like the c**t we worked with in Old Street who suggested it would be right to report us to his TA boss (Sergeant) after the Bishopsgate bomb as we worked in the area and were clearly Irish.

[Classic Jorge]

Residual catholicicsm, SW, it's a bitch.

See also guilt.

[Monty91]

He’s a f**king prick, whatever his religion!

[Ashberto]

to put the other passengers at ease.

[Luis Anaconda]

[Classic Jorge]

[Luis Anaconda]

[Ashberto]

though I gather it helps.

[Classic Jorge]

[Luis Anaconda]

[Classic Jorge]

Mine's the ornate, gold leafed, full oil painting guilt.

[Luis Anaconda]

http://img2-ak.lst.fm/i/u/arO/85de9a4726be4851aca78ddcadb484a6

[Classic Jorge]

[Monty91]

I suspect he isn't. And anyway, that would be an odd form of Islamophobia (whatever that means) to discriminate against a Christian.

You talk the talk about freedom, yet you support freedom restricting measures such as increased profiling :shrug:

[Classic Jorge]

I cant tell you for sure that fairies dont exist though, can I? I mean, surely proving a negative is logic fail 101.

[Luis Anaconda]

This was on the website of a wedding I am to attend in the summer


"It's hard out there for a DJ. They're not mind reader. Song requests are happily accepted for the dancing portion of the evening. Just no Hall & Oates. Have some self respect. Add your song(s) to the list here!"

:cry:

[Classic Jorge]

I'm pretty against it. Not to the level of insisting I dress up as osama bin laden when I fly, but pretty close.

[Monty91]

showing them my Israeli passport stamp, but it just makes them even more suspicious :-(

[Classic Jorge]

Oooh girl!

[Luis Anaconda]

[Monty91]

even though, in the search for jihadists, doing so would be an absolute waste of time and resources (both of which are in finite supply)?

[The Tony]

U White boys better go clean shaven else your just going to look like a convert wannabe

[Luis Anaconda]

[Monty91]

Like, say, oooh I dunno...a text message about prayer to a whatsapp group called "ISI"?

[Ashberto]

There comes a point where the sensible thing to do is to play the probablities. None of us know whether the FSM exists, or whether the universe actually came into existance after being sneezed out of the nose of a being called the Great Green Arkleseizure, but to suggest that these theories are credible just because they cannot be disproved strikes me as a serious logic fail.

Sometimes logic has to be analogue, not digital.

[Classic Jorge]

You'd do well to have enough charge to detonate a party popper air side.

Surely it's best, and only right, that we're all subject to similar checks. Anyway, you do realise that one of the 7/7 bumers was called the very un-allan sounding Jermaine Lindsay, dont you?

You dont really get that sort of pleasing symetry in asymetrical warfare. It's the very acme of dumb science.

[Monty91]

and so there is absolutely no practical point in putting them through any increased security scrutiny.

[Classic Jorge]

[Luis Anaconda]

[Monty91]

a haystack’ search for jihadis, committing ANY time and resources on checking anyone other than Allans will only increase the risk of one slipping through. There is no up-side to this, other than making people like you feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

[Classic Jorge]

The funny thing is that science has progressed to such a level that we're largely relying on suspicion as the first step towards proof.

PS I relaised, way back at the start, that it's a fundamentally illogical act to be praying to a god you're pretty certain doesnt exist. Sadly my fear of flying does not come from a logical place.

[Jake]

http://blog.soton.ac.uk/pr7g13/files/2013/11/four-lions-movie-poster-2010-1010687595.jpg

[Monty91]

a plane in this day and age?????!!!!!????

Smokers have to wait till they get to the other end, so why not religousers?

[Classic Jorge]

Though maybe, given my search for a true and fundamental fairness, I'm displaying the very englishness I so often decry.

Such a mine of contradictions, us humans.

[Ashberto]

And when I did it had been imprinted on me by overexposure to feminism and other stroppy forms of politics rather than religion.

These days I have an entirely new set of anxiety-driven neuroses to keep me busy.

[Classic Jorge]

https://49.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lv46tlZ1z31qb74kqo1_500.gif

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Do you suggest that the ATS swoop on all their stores as they are clearly up to no good, especially the one in Luton as there must be muslims in there.

Have to say, hats off to the marketing whizz came up with that one all the same.

[Monty91]

by implementing it, you would increase the chances of would-be mass murderers slipping through the net?

[Luis Anaconda]

kind of self defeating security if you are going to make it clear that you won't suspect certain groups of people

[Monty91]

How do you think the cabin crew should have responded when the passenger told them what he thought he’d seen?

[Ashberto]

Because we don't *know* with 100% certainty that god, the FSM or fairies don't exist, we cannot apply a logical 1. Instead we have a 99.99999 etc % probability. This is true, but it is more logical to round it up to the 100% than to round it down to the fluffy, namby-pamby relativist 50% just to appear open minded when what you are really doing is phucking all the analysis (and evidence) out of the window.

[Classic Jorge]

I just think you'd have to be some sort of mad criminal mastermind to be able to get a bomb on a plane in the modern age. You cant even take nail clippers on any more.

In fact, since the ninth of november happened I dont think there's been a single aircraft blown up via a passenger based bomb, has there? I think everything that's happened in the last 16 years has come via cargo hold stuff (separate lax security) or surface to air missiles.

[Monty91]

Profiling is merely about increased security checks for certain groups.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

The grass was not right in any sense to suspect the prayer dude of being a bomber.

Not every muslim is a terrorist.
Not every muslim on a plane is a terrorist threat.
Even the ones who pray.


The cabin crew probably had no choice as they will have a very defined set of procedures to follow in these scenarios.

[Classic Jorge]

That 0.000000 whatever is why I'll be watching us lose to spurs on saturday, thus ruining a nice weekend.

[Classic Jorge]

Your wife will have to keep her beard stowed in the hand luggage though.

[Monty91]

similar checks.”

Now explain how, if, as you will concede, this means a greater chance of mass-murderers slipping through?

Bear in mind we are not only talking about aviation security here.

[Monty91]

[Classic Jorge]

I simply dont follow your logic here though. Given that a full quarter of UK suicide bombers were black blokes from Huddersfield called Jermaine though.

It wouldve been a nightmare for England B sqaurds of yore too.

[Classic Jorge]

How would anybody subjected to the basic security checks bomb, or even hijack, a plane?

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

[7evens]

He's perfectly entitled to pray and arouse suspicion where ever he chooses, just as one is perfectly entitled to walk in to the Paxton End and start singing Arsenal songs at the top of ones voice.

[Monty91]

So that's only, what, 16 million people who would quite like us dead and are free to move around the world with no additional scrutiny on them than the rest of us in our utopia of fairness and equality.

Great.

[Jake]

[Classic Jorge]

Assuming your 1% figure is right, which it clearly isnt, then how many of them do you think could invent, construct, conceal and pass securty with a bomb presumably inserted in their anus (other orifices are available. Sorry Mo, I know you're touchy about your sphincter)?

I'll give you a clue, it's still more than the total number of people who have boarded a plane in the last 15 years.

[7evens]

:driving:

[Monty91]

At provincial airports and overseas, not so much.

But anyway, as I said, the issue of profiling goes far beyond airport security.

[Monty91]

lethal and harder-to-detect ways to kill us.

Your point is fatuous.

[Classic Jorge]

So we should blanket investigate anybody meeting an arbitary set of criteria, presumably muslim and between the ages of 18 and 45, every time they try to board a flight? I'd like to think our intelligence and counter terrorism efforts are a little more sophisticated than that. Just from the cost aspect alone.

My point is that flight checks are all very, very rigorous already, to the point of being disruptive to the going about of people's daily business. I mean, this **** with the clear bags and the little bottles is bordering on the ridiculous. Presumably you've travelled with a baby, you know.