So.. 4 months of both sides trying to scare the voters into staying or going then ?

[7evens]

No f**ker can predict with absolute certainty whether or not we'll be better off or worse.
:shrug:

[Classic Jorge]

The thing that gets me is that most people already seem to have made up their minds, apart from Boris that is.

[Ashberto]

[Berni]

Most of them seem to be instinctively in favour of leaving, but are a bit scared. There is certainly no love for the EU.

[7evens]

and how often is that the case ?
As for the security and terrorism scaremongering, it's not as if other countries are going to stop liaising with the UK authorities on the grounds we're not in the club http://www.awimb.com/images/smiley_icons/ohwell.gif

[Classic Jorge]

[Brentwood]

[Classic Jorge]

[Brentwood]

and when asked to state the laws they are affected by that are imposed by the EU (supposedly 80% of our laws are made there) they can never come up with any. Even the oft mocked straight banana rule has some common sense - so that they could all fit into a standard Euro Pallet. A good idea, but ridiculed forever

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03569/Nigel_Farage_Manch_3569415b.jpg

[Classic Jorge]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03578/galloway_3578998b.jpg

[Berni]

It's not really about 'better off' for me, though. It's about the principles of sovereignty and national democratic self-determination.

And on those there is simply no argument other than to vote leave. :shrug:

[Ashberto]

You should be on Mock the Weak.

[Berni]

which is always going to make those you try to persuade rather suspicious of your arguments.

[Brentwood]

No commentator can possibly predict what the impact will be, and it isn't useful to look at other countries to see how they are doing inside/outside the EU (e.g. Norway)

[Berni]

The UK is a country of 65 million people, which gives it a rather better bargaining position.

[Classic Jorge]

I think a lot of the arguments about "sovereignty and national democratic self-determination" is largely about that same establishment taking back power they've ceded to the EU.

[Berni]

only harden them, while making those who sneer appear superficial and lightweight.

[Berni]

people and the institutions that - whether you like it or not - they hold dear.

You have to see that, from someone with the views you hold, advocacy for the EU is likely to be viewed with immense suspicion.

[Classic Jorge]

...c**ts on both sides of the debate though.

Mind you, I must say this is really a team of top, top c**tishness.

http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/02701/02_20221102_d4c6f3_2701212a.jpg

[Classic Jorge]

Which is basically everyone apart from those who went to better schools than you, and geoffrey boycott.

[Berni]

but so what?), he is seriously, seriously bright and adds a real degree of intellectual weight that perfectly complements Boris's populism and electoral touch.

This referendum just got seriously interesting. :-)

[Classic Jorge]

Personally I'm just happy that John Whittingdale has a legible signature.

Priti Patel though, definitely would.

[Berni]

I sometimes don't think you understand this country at all, j.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

The former (or still current to be precise) concept of free movement of labour within EU countries will no longer exist I assume.

[Classic Jorge]

Not you, of course, just everything you represent and hold dear.

[Ashberto]

I can't resist. :cheapgovejoke:

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/1838118986/PEOPLE_pob_SQUARE_400x400.jpg

[Berni]

country that I know are totally and utterly incompatible with the EU. I think a lot of people feel the same.

[Brentwood]

I don't think they even bothered to report what the leader of the opposition announced

[Berni]

explanation for his backing 'Leave'. For those who agree, it is an elegant encapsulation of many of our reasons for wanting to leave and for those who disagree, it will give the lie to cheap jibes about 'Leave' being a position only for swivel-eyed xenophobes.



http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/michael-gove-why-im-bac king-leave/ (http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/02/michael-gove-why-im-backing-leave/)

[Ashberto]

Do you have a vote on this? I know you have lived outside the empire for some years now, but you were born inside it after all.

[Brentwood]

so that if we vote leave and Cameron's position becomes untenable, he becomes the natural succesor?

He has already made comments about wanting a better deal (than the one DC negotiated)

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

about it. In a recent poll. the views of the Leader of the Opposition's views on the matter were ranked fifth is a list of whose views were most trusted - behind the PM, Boris, May and Osborne. That is a quite extraordinary degree of irrelevance.

[Brentwood]

It's almost as if people have accepted that they aren't relevant anymore

[Berni]

since Osborne wouldn't have let it happen. This way, he has a chance to derail the succession of Osborne (something as a Tory supporter I would dearly love him to do, since Osborne is as popular as a **** in a shoebox) and to become PM.

[Berni]

This is the thing: everyone now accepts that whichever wing of the Tory party wins the referendum will win the next general election. Thus, what Labour or Corbyn have to say on the issue simply doesn't matter a damn.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

I am registered to vote in this Friday’s General Election though at this point I am undecided if I will bother my hole.

[Ashberto]

[Classic Jorge]

[redgunamo]

[Berni]

The old Labour/Tory thing gets a bit samey, so a chance to stick it to Johnny Foreigner at least gets the blood pumping a bit. ;-)

[Ashberto]

Every Vote Matters etc

[Berni]

Many of the left-wingers that make up his base are quite as opposed to the EU as any Tory Eurosceptic, seeing it as a capitalist conspiracy to screw over the working man.

[Ashberto]

I prefer the arguments about sovereignty and democracy.

[Berni]

[redgunamo]

[Classic Jorge]