Oi, la. Are you going to be allowed to vote in the EU referendum? If so, have you decided which way?

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

I really can't find a set of compelling arguments on either side. The debate so far appears to be hyperbole from both sides.

[Luis Anaconda]

Though I did see something about there being a problem with people living in foreign voting.

I'm not sure about what is best though. Always been my opinion that economically it is a good thing (and how much that will change if we are to leave I don't really know). But not sure if there is any point us staying in while there is always such huge resistance to everything that it tries to do. Unless it pisses off the French . I would stay in to piss off the French

[Billy Goat Sverige]

[Luis Anaconda]

[Mo Britain less Europe]

and a bureaucratic nightmare which is leading to 1984 scenarios.

[Luis Anaconda]

though I would argue that if we had spent the past 40 years trying to shape the organisation rather than constantly fighting it, we might have made a difference

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

I mean, there aren't really shelves full of straight bananas, are there?

[Mo Britain less Europe]

mismanaged and the EU allowed to build up all these parliaments and all these spending bodies. An organisation which says it has to be ever closer because otherwise its members will fight each other is either plain dumb or duplicitous.

The EU has been built to create and effective Franco-German hegemony and UK was always a gatecrasher at that party.

It's the infuriating attempts to micro-manage our lives which make me say "non" tghough.

[Berni]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Monty91]

:shrug:

[Berni]

I'd rather be governed by incompetents I can vote out than hugely efficient people I can't.

We either believe in democracy as a principle or we don't. And, while I am the first to admit it is hugely flawed, it is a f**k sight better than most alternatives.The EU is not democratic and that bothers me at a fundamental level.

[Berni]

[Monty91]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

made by act of parliament? Where is this interference from the EU of which we speak?

[Berni]

state). Pleni - Full as in the French 'plein'. 'Potent' as in power.

It originally meant an ambassador or governor who acted as the hand of the monarch or emperor in far-flung bits of empire where the Monarch or emperor wasn't around.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

'His Excellency Fred Bloggs, Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary to the Court of St. James's'

[Berni]

There are things the British parliament cannot legally vote into law no matter how big a democratic mandate they have from the British people. That is wrong.

[Ashberto]

(The latter referred to German Legislation)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/6198513/EU- is-Britain-still-a-sovereign-state.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/6198513/EU-is-Britain-still-a-sovereign-state.html)

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

What, though? The re-introduction of the death penalty? A law stating that bananas may be legally sold with a bend in the middle.

[Monty91]

The reason there are more female engineers in France is commonly thought to be because the root of 'engineer' in French is 'Ingenius', whereas in England it is 'Engineer', which carries far more masculine connotations.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

both sides.

I'm tempted by the 'leave' option in the hope that sterling will be fundamentally weakened, but narrow self-interest is no basis for such a decision.

Perhaps I will abstain.

[Berni]

The fact is that, were a party to campaign with the reintroduction of the death penalty as their key platform and be returned by a landslide, they could not enact it.

This is what I mean by I'd rather be governed democratically by incompetents with ideas I hate than be governed undemocratically by highly competent people with whose ideas I agree. That, it seems to me is the true test of whether or not you are a democrat: would you rather see democracy work against your interests than see authoritarianism work in your interests?

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

of democracy; our very own version of democracy is deeply flawed as it is, so throwing in an extra flaw in the shape of the EU doesn't seem such a big deal.

[Ashberto]

Euroscepticism, and taking the other studies into account an average estimate of 50% of laws would not seem unreasonable.

In my view, they are elitist and undemocratic, and not the best way to integrate Europe economically.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

I doubt they have.

We are demons for the old EU referendums over here, no f**ker ever fully understands what the vote is fully about.

[Ashberto]

you have to do it again. This should make things a bit simpler, at least.

[Berni]

position to change. That is not the case with the EU, over whose processes we have neither oversight nor any meaningful control.

Ultimately, you seem to be arguing in favour of a tyranny for no better reason than that, as thing stand, you see it as fairly benign. I agree. It is benign and there are aspects of it I like, but it nonetheless remains a tyranny.

[Luis Anaconda]

Hence no one knows what the f**k will be going on

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Though it is advice, not an order.

You got it wrong before, sure why not change your mind.

We have a general election as such next week. Not one f**ker has been to my door yet, or if they have then I have been out.

[Berni]

One side says it will be all broad, sunlit uplands, milk and honey, the other says it will be a Mad Max-style wasteland.

I suspect it will be somewhere in between.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Not for us of course because we have a special arrangement, despite being at war with you.

[Ashberto]

Well, yours have.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

The whole Irish army.

[Ashberto]

Or Bristol?

[Berni]

I'm not sure our radar systems can pick up anything that slow :-(

http://www.military.ie/uploads/tx_templavoila/air_corps_main_heading_13_719.jpg

[redgunamo]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

He'll be telling us how difficult it is to land one of these then making up an unintelligible string of numbers and letters pretending it is weather related.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

I say 'fleet', I mean '5'.

http://www.military.ie/typo3temp/pics/b5bb16d7c1.jpg

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

I think they fly overhead in formation each Easter.

[redgunamo]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Cessna 172s, for all love.

I learnt to fly in a Cessna 172 in 1986. It was an underpowered piece of **** even for a student pilot.

[Luis Anaconda]