The Customer is King. Sport is dead. Support is dead. Long live The Business!

[Ashberto]

Once you start treating supporters as customers, then expect them to behave like customers. What do customers expect? Satisfaction.

Are they right to be a bit unhappy with Theo Walcott to be paid 140,000GPB a week (I've no idea what he actually gets) while he's playing like a spastic (sorry My Harvey for using that word)? Yes, I expect they are.

Are they right to be complain about prices? Of course they are! It's every customer's RIGHT to complain about prices. It's what they pay for.

Are they right to demand that we finish above teams that have no right to finish above us as they have less dosh, to paraphrase Mr Monty? Of course they are, and they can take to twitter and vent their displeasure as they see fit and boo all the players and manager and club and owner all they like should either Leicester or Totttenham finish above us. The customer should get what they pay for, after all.

IF, on the other hand, they are supporters and not customers, IF we dare to express the heresy that this is sport and not just business, then perhaps the loyal fan will not boo their team. Perhaps they will will cheer the boys through thick and thin, and shout "Come on you rip-roaring Gunners!" even when the team haven't won for six weeks and the league season is doing its all-too familiar spiral down the plughole.

But no, we don't want loyal fans. We want 300 quid a seat tickets, apparently, because that what the god mammon demands. And anyone that doesn't like that is a cretin, apparently.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

you ascribe the traditional working classes with absolutely no agency, no self-determination. Football supporters could have decided not to be customers, but to remain supporters, despite the actions of clubs which, to be fair, have included vast ameliorations in supporters'/customers' safety and comfort.

You realise that back in the good ol' days of the 1970s we were treated with utter disdain by the club, don't you? Paying 1.50 to get on to the North Bank, to stand on a crumbling concrete terrace and piss against a brick wall, whilst watching some deeply mediocre footballers was just as much of a rip-off as paying 70 for a ticket today.

[Peter]

The club. As a loyal supporter surely this is your main concern? That the club grows and prospers for years to come.

Only a cretin would prioritise the crass short-term pay off of silverware and on field achievements. Merely one aspect of a global business....

Football is a bit ****.

[Herbette Chapman - aged 15]

[Monty91]

support their team in any meaningful sense of the word?

What is the threshold at which supporters decide they are being bantered off and will jeer every misplaced pass?

[Berni]

paying. As it stands, they're analogous to people who complain about the food and prices at a restaurant but keep coming back in order to complain loudly.

That just makes them thick c**ts in my book.

If, on the other hand, they regard their relationship with the club as having some sort of mystical dimension that supersedes the merely commercial, they have to accept that questions such as value for money are irrelevant and that they have effectively undermined their position as customers.

[Monty91]

efficient system in place for selling your season ticket for individual matches.

I’ve never understood why that is never an option for these people.

Why do they need to go to every game? What is wrong with them?

[Pokster]

and as some supporters think success goes with signing new shiny players, the fact that we haven't spent anywhere near as much in the last 12 months as our rivals that supporters will be frustrated with ever miss hit pass etc etc

[Herbette Chapman - aged 15]

[The Tony]

what gets me is most of the money is just wasted....a billion spent on players for what?

Premier league has been in decline for several seasons now....this season probably rock bottom...it can't get any worse surely.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

I keep hearing about how football clubs used to be about 'community' and other such nonsense. Like Denis Hill-Wood gave one flying fart for 'community'. He allowed us, somewhat grudgingly, to pay to enter his private club and held us in utter contempt.

[Ashberto]

of thought, I would argue.

Apart from that I agree with all you said there. The football was much worse back then too, of course.

[Monty91]

that you are willing to hurt the thing you claim to love and taint the enjoyment of those around you, then you are an emotionally retarded cretin who deserves cancer/gassing /all they get (delete according to your sensitivities)

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

If it turns out that I do have the bad cance of the innards I intend to hold you entirely responsible.

[Pokster]

manages to get us so close to the title (this year is our best chance we are likely to have for some time imo), yet goes into the season knowing 3 players are injured and out for months, yet we have no cover in midfield and only 1 striker of note.

So fans spend a fortune and don't see the benefit as the club are happy to take as much from the fans as possible and don't give a stuff... hence the club voting against 30 quid away tickets as they would rather make the travel cheaper.... :hehe:

[Monty91]

vouch for what goes on inside my sick head.

Anyway, I reckon this ‘hernia’ lump might be the big C. I’ve inexplicably lost 5 pounds in weight and keep getting terrible colds.

It was inevitable really, wasn't it :-(

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

So that's something to look forward to.

[Ashberto]

for a football club, which is at the heart of the gross market distortion (one of them) which is central to the understanding that football is, and I will use the dreaded words now, more than a business. The other gross disortion to the market is the semi-feudal relation between player and club, where people are bought and sold as commodities.

These two factors mean that football stands with one foot outside of the usual rules of free-market capitalism, while the other stands within. Without them football wouldn't be what it is. If people were rational consumers they would constantly switch their team for another which is more likely to win the league, and then who would support the other ninety-odd teams?

Why does anyone support Carlisle United or Doncaster Rovers or Exeter City? Or even Hull, Burnley, or Sunderland come to that? Because despite the globalised Big Clubs there are still people for whom community and football means something.

Filling Ashburton Grove with sixty thousand different holidaymakers at three hundred quid a pop every game might be a wet dream for Stan Kronke and you, sir, but no. Not for me, Clive.

[Ashberto]

you'd see that the body is missing if it contains any pound signs or accented or special characters.

[Ashberto]

We're not going to win anything charging ten pounds a league game, unless we had a free stadium from the taxpayer like West Ham and Man City, and a bankrolling oligarch, perhaps. I expect to pay a lot more to see The Arsenal than to see Barnet, but there comes a point where it is not unreasonable to say 'ouch'.

[Berni]

and booing them when they displease you constitutes 'love' and 'loyalty', yes. Sounds like a pretty abusive relationship to me. Indeed, people who actively undermine their side's performance in this way strike me as the antithesis of loving or loyal.

They claim to want success and to be part of the club, but do nothing to help bring that success about, preferring to piss and moan. Fair enough. That's their right as customers (although not as 'fans'), but it's also the right of the club to treat them like customers and make as much money as possible out of them.

[Ashberto]

often very much, as it goes, but most people look like theatre-goers, sitting there in silence. Rich's perfect fans.

You can't blame people for reflexive groans anyway. It's nacheral.

[Ashberto]

Applying the logic of consumer satisfaction only encourages that sort of thing.

[Ashberto]

It's rare for me to walk home after a game without someone asking me the score. If they were fan-atics they would know the score by now, but it shows that many local people have a connection with the club without being loony obsessives like us lot. The bus parades show that too. They might not be able to afford to go much, if at all, but they still want us to win.

[Berni]

I've never seen or heard anything so shameful as an Arsenal crowd booing their own player as they did with Eboue - and that was just one example. The mood in the place became utterly poisonous. That's nothing to do with commercialisation, that's just ignorant, stupid, spoilt and disloyal children spitting their dummies in petulant fury bedause they're not getting what they want. Revolting.

[Monty91]

Who do you think are the most emotionally strained people in the stadium during a match? The two managers, of course. Do you think Arsene Wenger whines and wails at every misplaced pass? Or does he internalise his emotions because he’s aware that by not doing so it would have a negative impact on the players?

Exactly the same obligation rests on the fans if they are to be taken seriously when they claim to have a meaningful emotional attachment to the club, but it is one that they consistently neglect.

Because they are thick scum who deserve absolutely no respect on any level whatsoever. They literally deserve noting. Clive.

[redgunamo]

It's just banter, part of the game. Even an essential part of the relationship with the game itself.

I think now though, you're dealing with a different class of supporter, reflected in the fact that you are now also dealing with a different class of football club.

[Classic Jorge]

Is it just that the East Upper in those people from Highbury is so strong that they're more vocal or do you think that East Upper is contagious?

It could just be that the club has retained and attracted more of the East Upper types due to the demographic shifts that have taken place in our matchgoing crowd over the last 10-15 years.

[redgunamo]

It's football, not some militant wing or chapter of the Women's Institute :shrug:

['Neg]

more monies to spend on holidays, food and bicycles :cloud9:

[Ashberto]

they could probably do it if the price was right. We've all seen Arsene twitch and writhe in anguish a few times.

[Monty91]

seems rather antiquated.

Arguably, the closest thing to 'community' in football nowadays are those who congregate online – on message boards, blogs and Twitter.

There’s also the fact that almost every match is on TV, so you can gather in pubs or friends’ houses just as well as at the stadium. Of course, all-seater stadiums ended the tradition of watching live with big groups of mates.

All that reducing ticket prices would mean is that people have a bit more money in their pocket. No-one who can afford a 50 quid ticket would never spend 70, unless it was on principle.

It would change absolutely nothing.

[Ashberto]

At a time when the club had invested in a fancy new stand to sell more expensive tickets.

[Ashberto]

Are you coming to the Barca game btw?

[Monty91]

If an actual human relationship contained a partner who acted like a football fan, then that partner would be classified as an emotionally-stunted sociopath with anger issues and their other half would be doing him or herself a very, very big favour by getting the hell out of there and never going back.

['Neg]

Banks Road in Sanbanks to be precise, I think.

['Neg]

when we are playing a drugged up side. One might want to kill me before I kill myself.

I shall offer up the ticket to a friend in need though.

[redgunamo]

It's still *******s though.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

to be able to express themselves in something approaching intelligible language.

Explain Claude to me.

[Monty91]

Pic?

[Ashberto]

over-estimates people's limits. If seventy quid can be afforded, then why not ninety?

[Classic Jorge]

I think Claude, bless him, is just a right c**t.

Please excuse the vulgarity but I do think it's merited here.

[redgunamo]

What do you think this is, the Middle Ages. Only people who can't afford decent hunting rifles strike their wives nowadays.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

[Monty91]

the big games, none of whom are wealthy.

There's a lot of Arsenal fans with a little bit of cash to spare and who love to watch us play :shrug:

Why this isn't something to be pleased about, I don't know. It reflects very well on AFC and its ability to maintain a highly successful product.

[redgunamo]

supporters do not make the same claims about their holidays, for example. Or new cars or the theatre. Or the wife's new shoes.

The game gets fingered for so much of society's ills that it has had to develop an extremely thick skin. And, to its credit, it has done so.

[Ashberto]

don't want to be priced out of big games by some Big Game Charlie c**t who is happy to spunk 150 quid so he can put a seflie of himself with the scoreboard behind on facebook to impress his mates.

They should go to a league cup game instead. At this point I would like to congratulate the club for their excellent pricing policy for this tournament. I know people who rarely have the chance to see us do really appreciate this.

[Ashberto]

It's what their emancipation was invented for.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Is it simply because he has a larger disposable income?

[Monty91]

And of course by giving up your ST for five games a year, you allow people the chance to go to some decent fixtures rather than a ****ty Rumbelow Cup match

[Ashberto]

It is because they are putting upward pressure on the price of my ticket, and therefore acting contrary to my interests as my current role as an all-weather fan.

[Ashberto]

So ner. :vsign:

[redgunamo]

Football costs me far more now that I don't actually go and instead send my sons to games, than it used to when it was merely a way for my mates and I to get out of the house for a bit. You know, to get away from the wife and kids. As we know, birds and bairns have different .. er .. financial priorities.

Kick Women and Children out of Football :nod:

[Ashberto]

A careful choice, and she will buy her own season ticket and her round at the pub.

[redgunamo]

The post-Premier League/Sky TV/Hornby supporter, at any rate the ones who fashionably broke cover/boarded the bandwagon at that point, has slowly come to realise the essential absurdity of shouting "You're ****!" at young men, sometimes twenty years their junior, who have the equivalent of their own yearly mortgage payment hanging up in the dressing room rattling around in their trouser pocket. And, whatsmore, will no doubt go out after the game and blow the lot on Bollinger, blow-jobs and biryani, while they return, despite their sense of superiority, better education and "prospects", to an unending mundanity of a life they can, even so, barely afford.

Now that football is nakedly all about enriching "thick" "scum" like Ashley Cole and John Terry, the novelty has somewhat worn off and people need an excuse to renounce their previous so called diehard support.

Everyone knows it's all about money but the fans you despise have proved themselves among the only people unsophisticated enough to actually say so. If you don't include Arsene Wenger, of course.

[Ashberto]

It wouldn't be a matter of disposable income, but percieved value in the market. I may well have the disposable income, but chose not to dispose of it in such manner. Arsene knows all about this. :nod: ;-)

[redgunamo]

Like I said, it's our own fault; add a woman to anything and the cost of that thing will multiply :shrug: