In salt, msg, mushroom powder and anticaking agent news, Newcastle want Malaga winger Nordin Amrabat

[Classic Jorge]

And also, Peter, I wonder how this whole business of an electable labour party went in the last two elections. And also just how effective Miliband's Labour was at being an opposition worthy of the name.

[Berni]

However, he at least went into the last election with what people thought was a chance of winning the election. He also had a party and front bench that seemed to agree on most of their policies and which held the Government to account - even forcing a defeat on Syria.

Corbyn has no chance whatsoever of doing any of these things.

So in other words, Miliband was rubbish, but the answer to that was never going to be choosing someone even worse.

[Classic Jorge]

Do I think Corbyn has a chance of winning the next election? No, especially not with everyone, including the BBC, now trotting out tory lines verbatim.

Do I think Corbyn is doing a better job of representing the people the labour party was set up to? To quote Ed, hell yes.

[Berni]

May? Or the 'people' in his own party who vehemently disagree with him? Or the 'people' in Scotland who seem to feel the SNP represent them better than Labour can in any guise? Or the 'people' who polls keep telling me think he's utterly unelectable and a bit of a joke?

Seems to me you need to be very careful with phrases like 'the people'.

[Classic Jorge]

ie the people the tories want to make life harder for.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

I think you mean, 'The people for whom the Tories wish to make life harder.'

[Berni]

Oh, you'll get nowhere representing people like that, j. Reason being: everyone else hates them.

[Berni]

And I mean that as a compliment.

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

It's more a question of finding inelegant prose offensive.

[Berni]

sentence infinitely more pleasing.

The split infinitive is a classic example. It's completely absurd to call it 'incorrect'. But there's no doubt that 'to go boldly' is a vastly more elegant construction than 'to boldly go'.

[Peter]

some of us see the labour party as a force for good in government and opposition.

Just not under corbyn. Ten more years of the tories..... :banghead:

[Berni]

If you mean what we used to call 'the poor' or 'the working class', I don't see Corbyn's views on defence and immigration chiming with them at all - at least not with the white ones.

As far as I can see, Corbyn's core vote is precisely the type of ideologically-driven, middle class, white-collar, public sector socialist mentioned earlier by Peter. Of course he'll have support in other areas (in muslim communities and among students, for instance), but in terms of broad appeal, it's simply a non-starter.

[Luis Anaconda]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/35230754

"A guy is more likely to win me over with intelligent conversation and perfect grammar than with overstated confidence and good looks."

[Berni]

[Dorset Gooner]

[PSRB]

[Luis Anaconda]

[Peter]

In their defence of immigration and most opposed to any criticism of immigrants tend to be those who live in areas that are least affected by the difficulties it causes- the pressure on hospitals, housing, schools etc.

I recently experienced a local party meeting where these same people agrred to oppose the local affordable housing development in fear of a threat to local building of architectural significance (their own houses).

Had my mum not been sat next to me i might have started throwing the furniture around (probably not)
:-)

[Berni]

Would D Miliband have made Labour's record on the economy any more credible or increased the voters' trust? Not really, no. The damage was already done under Brown. No getting away from it.
Would he have been able to shake off the negative effects his government's hugely unpopular immigration policies had? No - indeed, he was more closely associated with them than Ed, if anything.
Would Miliband have been able to avoid questions of possibly having to share government with the SNP? No.
And ultimately, while Miliband D may have been more credible than Miliband E, that's setting the bar pretty low. Ultimately, Cameron is still a more credible figure than either and 'feels' like a Prime Minister.

[Dorset Gooner]

[Berni]

[Classic Jorge]

Not to mention their disgust for the very stark, unblurred line between the haves and have nots in this society, if society's still a thing any more.

He polls very, very well with the under 40s.

[Luis Anaconda]

iirc his very first one was to bravely scoff at the notion that the split infinitive was wrong

[Peter]

[Berni]

[Peter]

A complete mess.

Had anyone listened to me we would have a labour government that you would hate :-)