So these tax credits case studies in the Guardian.

[Monty91]

[Billy Goat Sverige]

[71 Guns - channeling the spirit of Mr Hat]

[Berni]

Tory party.

Enter Boris imo. :cloud9:

[Monty91]

A 60 year-old highly skilled and experienced copywriter only earns minimum wage? *******s.

A bloke studying for a Phd in Histoy can't find himself a better paid job than as a minimum wage delivery driver? *******s.

[Classic Jorge]

....as some sort of deliberate tactic to divert away from what is a pretty ****ty thing to do to people on the whole.

This is what you get with the tories, tax cuts for the rich and the poor getting their incomes squeezed more and more.

It doesnt contribute anything towards growth, in fact a lot of people would argue it hinders it, and does almost nothing to tackle the deficit either.

[Ashberto]

economy.

Not me though. I wouldn't say such a thing. Even though history can be studied as a hobby and qualifications should be reserved for things with value to society. Such as driving a van.

[Monty91]

tactic and precisely the one applied by the Guardian here?

[redgunamo]

find anything better to do than study History."

[Classic Jorge]

I mean, Osbournes been using next years factually inaccurate figures to try and point out he isnt massively failing on "paying down the deficit", just one example.

[redgunamo]

[Berni]

Honestly, this belief that hypocrisy is some sort of deadly sin is so very childish. I've never met anyone worth a **** who wasn't a hypocrite.

[Ashberto]

You're just saying that because your want to make things up as you go along, with one rule for you and another rule for others. Private law.

Geniune law is about precedent and consistency. And don't come out with that childish quote from some self-absorbed prick about small minds.

[Berni]

Everyone is. Face it. Embrace it.

[Monty91]

to change their opinions even when presented with new opposing evidence. Nothing at all to do with hypocrisy.

[redgunamo]

born into a household jumping with strong-minded women so it's understandable too.

[redgunamo]

If I knew I could merely blame somebody else for a failure, it simply wouldn't matter to me what decisions I made.

[Berni]

change one's mind or adapt one's opinions from day to day without having to worry about the need to be 'consistent' in one's utterances.



Quote:



A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.





Ultimately, however, that is not quite my point. My point is that hypocrisy is an inevitable consequence of living in and seeking to do one's best in an imperfect world.

A man may sincerely believe, for instance, that human life is sacrosanct and that killing is wholly wrong. And yet, when that killing becomes necessary in the greater good, he must endorse, authorise or even perform that killing himself. Does that make him a hypocrite? Or does it simply make him a man bending to harsh realities in order to do what he believes to be best? And do we trust him any less for that?

Speaking personally, I would trust a man who has had the courage to go against his deeply held beliefs in pursuit of the greater good than I would trust one who has dogmatically clung to those beliefs regardless of the wider implications.

And yet one is called a hypocrite and the other 'principled'. Well f**k that, frankly. Give me the hypocrite any day.

[Classic Jorge]

and the next signing a deal to allow communist china a massive chunk of our nuclear infrestructure.

Is it that sort of hypocricy that's OK?

[redgunamo]

It's the pointing fingers at others that encourages remark, I think. We *all* have the right to do what we think is right.

[Monty91]

be disingenuous and/or intellectual and moral cowards. Champagne socialists, for example, who I believe you may have had something to say about in the past.

[Monty91]

[Berni]

and put them next to each other. That's not the same as constructing an actual argument, I'm afraid.

[Classic Jorge]

I thought that it was actually a fairly good example of a man with absolutely no problem behaving in such a morally inconsistent fashion. Admirably so, if you believe your example.

[Berni]

In that instance, it's not their hypocrisy per se I hold against them, it's their capacity for cognitive dissonance and self-deception. In order to be a hypocrite, one must first have a set of rigidly-held principles. By their nature, socialists do and are consequently much more bothered by suggestions of hypocrisy than those of us of a more pragmatic bent.

[Berni]

I tend to agree. Although some would argue that such an outlook is pretty much carte blanche to do as you will.

[Monty91]

people as suffering from a mental delusion?

[Berni]

You choose to (with no evidence to that effect) because you want to make a cheap point.

[redgunamo]

for the consequences, in any case. If it goes wrong, it's my duty to put it right. Otherwise, how to convince future generations to follow our lead, our example.

[Berni]

Who you want to have sex with is not who you are, it is simply what makes your dick hard or your c**t wet. Those are physical facts, not delusions.

On the other hand, transgenders are attempting to deny an objective biological fact about themselves in the face of overwhelming evidence. They are claiming to be women (or men) when they are demonstrably not. That is a delusion - just as it would be if they claimed they were Napoleon.

[Classic Jorge]

...state run company poses no threat at all to national security, can you?

Think through all of the paranoid, reds-under-the-bed doomsday scanrios here.

If Corbyn had even so much as suggested it you'd all have him hanged as a traitor.

[Berni]

utterances on any subject or be expected to be entirely consistent on any topic.

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

What you seem to be suffering from is a Sinophobia that borders on racism, old chap.

And please don't presume to tell me what I would or wouldn't say in any given hypothetical.

[Classic Jorge]

Now I dont disagree on the basic threat of foreign companies owing and operating massive sections of our infrastructure but I do struggle with the idea that thre french are somehow more of a threat than the chinese. Talk me through how this is the case, what with the french sharing the same neck of the woods and the chinese having scant regard for the lives of their own people, let alone ours.

At the very least you must surely say the whole business is less than ideal.

[Berni]

standards - it isn't in anyone's interests for them to go wrong. Even though the owners are Chinese.

Tell me, do you also assume hygiene standards in Chinese restaurants are terrible because...y'know...the owners are Chinese?

This Alf Garnett side of you is new and unfortunate, j. :-(

[Ashberto]

But we can at least try to minimise them.

[Classic Jorge]

You know full well that these things amount to massive, ground level dirty bombs if their operators chose to deploy them that way. Essentially it's a massive bargaining chip for the chisese to have should they ever wish to turn the screws on us in the future.

I know you see that, I mean you surely cant fail to.

[Berni]

nuclear plant into meltdown and they're just going to do it, are they? Despite all the failsafe mechanisms stopping them and the fact that their families live locally?

I think you may have gone a bit mad here, j. :-(

[Supermac1976]

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/RV-AI346_bkrv_f_P_20121005030523.jpg

[Classic Jorge]

Safe to say, if Corbyn were proposing this bonkers scheme we'd have wall to wall conspiracy theories.