Berni, before I go flying in with both feet, are you just on a wind-up with your support for ISIS?

[Ashberto]

[Snin]

[Berni]

it is to stop ISIS, who are really a localised problem that local powers ought to be sorting out. Letting Putin get himself bogged down in a costly and hopeless Middle Eastern adventure is an excellent way to do that - particularly as the current oil price means that Russia's finances aren't looking too clever.

Putin's Russia is an aggressive, expansionist nuclear power that behaves capriciously and threatens good world order. It needs to be curtailed by any means necessary.

[Ashberto]

and of Russia's foreign policy?

[Berni]

Ask people in Poland, Scandinavia and the Baltic States how they feel about Putin's foreign policy. Or Ukraine or Georgia, maybe?

[7evens]

on a London street in broad daylight.
The ridiculous state of security in our airports isn't down to the Russians either.
Putin may be a law unto himself but at this point, I'm fairly certain who I'd see as a greater subversive risk to this country.

[Snin]

best for America, Israel, Turks , Gulf States and Saudi

[Berni]

threat of domestic terrorism - nothing whatsoever.

Meanwhile, Putin is flying Russian warplanes over our and our allies' airspace on a regular basis, flexing his military muscles and now trying to get a foothold in the Middle East in order to bring pressure to bear against Saudi, which is currently turning on the taps and screwing Russia's economy.

You've got to think a bit bigger imo.

[Classic Jorge]

They werent even in Al Quaeda, though one of them was arrested trying to get to an AQ training camp.

[Berni]

than anything ISIS can do. This is the guy who's threatened to turn off the gas supply to Germany, remember? And the same guy who is a threat to Poland and the Baltic States.

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

that they won't face Russian aggression alone. Sufficient that Poland invited the US to roll its tanks into Poland to send Russia a message to back the f**k off. This is not NATO or US aggression, this is requested assistance from those countries who are scared of Russia rolling into them as they did in Georgia or Ukraine.

[7evens]

They may jockey for position amongst themselves but their hatred for western ideals remains shared.

[Snin]

with the help of Nato then these facists called in help from Nato as they tried to ethnically split the country in 2 and take rights away from the majority of its people and give it to a few facist oligarchs..bit different tbh

[Classic Jorge]

Personally I'd be prepared to write them off as a pair of nutters, as I've said before the sensible thing would be to stop creating so much hatred and acrimony in the first place.

[Snin]

continually sort thrww NGO's and other mean's to de-stabilise Baltic and ex Russian states to agitate the facist and money grabbing right wingers in these countries to then have fake peoples revolutions to bring in nato friendly states who then hand over lots of money to nato and IMF and make the people poor...plus whilst doing so try and agitate the internal people in Russia... I think he is better leader than any of our cnuts and I'd follow him over our lot anytime.

[Berni]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alexander-motyl/putin-calls-uk raine-fasci_b_6600292.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alexander-motyl/putin-calls-ukraine-fasci_b_6600292.html)

[Ashberto]

and opposed the Western-sponsored, Nazi-flavoured coup against the elected government in Kiev? While in Georgia, Russia defended the de-facto independent South Ossetia against attack by the Georgian goverment.

Could we swap sides, do you think? If I argue your case against Russia could you argue mine against NATO? Lets see how well we understand all sides of the debate.

Then, we can compare Russian ambitions to enslave us all with those of your barbarian, Islamist allies.

[7evens]

Yet we travel halfway across the globe to defend a handful of our ethnic sheep farmers against an aggressor and see ourselves as liberators :shrug:
You can say the Falklands are British but then so to was Hong Kong and I don't remember the locals being too much in favour of the Chinese marching in at the time.
There are treaties and there are charters and then there's the calculated odds in knowing when you can defeat your aggressor or when you're on to a good hiding.

[Snin]

Quoting a huffington post article would be same as me quoting Pravda.. I'm right in my mind and you in yours, hence pointless so you keep your American/Israel/Gulf state Junta I'll follow my one that at least comes out of Europe and defended Europe in WW2.. I'll go with the Russians thanks

[Ashberto]

Russia is only a danger if our paranoid, swivel-eyed cold-war relics continue their aggressive propaganda-fulled demonisation of Russia, thus needlessly making them an enemy.

Our real enemy are the Allan Akbars, who are also an enemy of Russia.

[7evens]

[Snin]

just to keep them happy ;-)

[Ashberto]

The west really shouldn't want an Islamic State covering Iraq and Syria, run by insane, medieval jihadi fanatics hell-bent on indefinite expansion and quite capable of future terror attacks on the west.

That would be well mental.

[Snin]

Zionists and US Neocons.. all who alarmingly aren't that impartial or afraid of the end of the world scenario..nope give me a nice orthodox Christian any day of the week

[Berni]

The Falklands are a sovreign, independently-governed British dependency. They have no other nationals on them other than British ones - pretty much all of whom wish to remain self-governing. They were invaded by a foreign power and we fought to kick that foreign power out. Nothing about 'ethnicity' whatsoever.

Hong Kong, on the other hand, was leased to us in the aftermath of the Opium War and it was always part of the plan that we were going to give it back once the lease was up. There was literally nothing to defend.

To compare the Falklands with Putin's invasion of independent sovereign states on the spurious grounds of protecting the rights of 'ethnic' Russians is so incredibly stupid that it defies belief.

[Snin]

what a suprise?! its almost like you only know / wnt to argue agenda..hence again why debating is ****e and why I'd much rather just shoot someone in the face / stick a cutlass in there bowel.. lifes not fair imo, born in the wrong country / time

[Snin]

https://twitter.com/PressTV/status/651209236458827776/photo/ 1 (https://twitter.com/PressTV/status/651209236458827776/photo/1)

nice that they publically now saying they back ISIS too..yet we love the Saudis eh B ?

[Classic Jorge]

Number three

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CQmPWUtVEAAiEEo.jpg

[Snin]

[Classic Jorge]

[Snin]

[Classic Jorge]

Not really, open it it the web version and you can get the image location on most browsers.

[Ashberto]

Are we talking universal principles here, or one law for me, another for you?

[Berni]

There was no NATO non-expansion agreement - something Gorbachev (who is the person with whom this agreement was supposed to have been made) has publicly confirmed. He said:



Quote:



“The agreement on a final settlement with Germany said that no new military structures would be created in the eastern part of the country; no additional troops would be deployed; no weapons of mass destruction would be placed there. It has been obeyed all these years.”





Equally, in 1997 NATO said that in the “current and foreseeable security environment” there would be no permanent stationing of substantial combat forces on the territory of new NATO members. And there wasn't - right up until the Russian military occupation of Crimea in March, when the NATO members requested it to protect themselves.

So, if Russia is so lovely and cuddly, why are all its neighbours so scared of it, would you say? Hmmmm?

Also, kudos for trying to sell the man who has overseen Russia's transformation into a kleptocracy in which national assets are held in the hands of a few picked oligarchs, as the protector of his people's interests. It's hilarious.

[Snin]

[Snin]

[Berni]

You, on the other hand, are just talking **** with no evidence whatsoever.

[Berni]

you can't criticise the west doing it without also criticising it when it's done by Russia.

Whataboutery's a bitch like that ;-)

[Snin]

well done imo I hope it keeps you happy

[Berni]

Next time you decide to get involved in a debate, maybe it would be an idea to have some grasp of the facts? :shrug:

[Snin]

or is obviously deliberately trolling / WUM'ing and I just got bored of it as its total bull**** and I cant be bothered to regurgitate facts when basic premise is / was that you were trolling of supporting ISIS over Russia so to then call other peoples arguments simple, idiotic, garbage etc..is pretty bloody stupid.. I re-read the start of your argument and just thought f**k me what a tool

[Berni]

Oh, and I'm not supporting ISIS. I'm saying that the west's strategic interests are better served by weakening Russia than by bombing ISIS. There is a difference.

[eastgermanautos]

:-) just kidding, homie.

[eastgermanautos]

aren't they, just as we us-ers refought the gulf war 1.

[eastgermanautos]

is a lot of muslims. got these pissholes like indonesia, africa, what not. lotta trouble my man.

[Luis Anaconda]

It's only about 1.6 billion