Anyone else see that moving documentary on the women and children held by isis ?

[7evens]

These scumballs should be erradicated.
Thugs using a distorted angle of a religion in a twisted campaign of human suffering and persecution.
What these innocent women and kids have to endure is shameful. They're pure entertainment for this scum.

[Rich]

[Berni]

way across countries. It's hardly a phenomenon that's peculiar to ISIS.

[Rich]

up from being complete savages.

They seem to revel in filming their atrocities and publishing them on the internet. Not sporting behaviour imo.

[Berni]

pillage, really.

Worse has been happening across large portions of Africa for decades, but nobody gives a f**k because they don't tend to put it on the internet and there isn't a 'war on terror' angle to hang the story on. Equally, similar things happened in the former Yugoslavia not long ago (mass rape, genocide, etc).

So no, we haven't 'grown up' as you put it. Human nature hasn't changed.

[Monty91]

[Classic Jorge]

[Monty91]

[Ashberto]

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

Quote:



Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported that at the Battle of Hunain Allah's Messenger sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:"And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (Quran 4:. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end).
Sahih Muslim 8:3432

[Classic Jorge]

Would seem to me that he's saying it's OK to get it on with them.

Not entirely sure what an Idda period is though.

[Berni]

all concluded that rape was used as a weapon of war in Yugoslavia.

[Berni]

captors? :hehe:

To be fair, there's plenty of legitimised rape in the OT, too, but to suggest that the Qu'ran doesn't indulge in some pretty iffy gender politics about rape is disingenuous.

[Classic Jorge]

I was replying to Monty saying it's a distorted angle rather than a direct interpretation.

[Monty91]

[Classic Jorge]

The point I'm trying to make is, however awful some of the things done in the name of religion it doesnt invalidate the fact that at the core of them are some pretty nice teachings.

I'm an atheist, not a militant one but a fairly staunch one nonetheless, but to write off all religions and religiousers as bad is simply stupid. It also smacks of the type of thinking atheists accuse religious types of too.

[Monty91]

necessarily invalidate the good, but it certainly delegitimises the teachings as a whole.

This is the rule of thumb that I think you and I would both apply to any other aspect of life, and it is only because religion is cosseted and given special treatment that it remains legitimate.

[redgunamo]

[Classic Jorge]

Generally the central idea, ethos and teachings are good whilst the bad things come later, usually as some sort of expansionist plan, war or at least a struggle.

[Monty91]

within modern day Islam - the world's fastest growing religion - than any other faith.

How do you propose, under your policy of tolerance and validation for the ones who don't necessarily spend their days raping women or pushing benders off roofs, that this will change?

[redgunamo]

Same with football/football hooligans, I suppose.

*Edit: The ones that don't get double-tap droned into oblivion, that is.

[Berni]

must behave based on your conversations with an imaginary being. Because, of course, many people won't want to behave like that and, if you want your imaginary being to have any credibility, you therefore have to start coercing them into behaving the way you want them to. At which point, you have a tyranny.

So in other words, evil and oppression are intrinsic to any organised faith.

[Classic Jorge]

and those headlines fit in with the whole 'muslim nutter' narrative. I mean, it'd be great if we looked at how ISIS came about, how they got all the money and kit too, maybe applied a little context and perspective. I doubt that's going to happen any time soon though, especially as it'd highlight the free democratic west's less liberal and democratic actions.

So, are you asking me how being tolerant of muslims will change this? Well given we've hardly been tolerant of them so far it's more likely to work than the current strategy, no?

[Ashberto]

whose religious beliefs compelled them to build huge clay pyramids (with flattened tops containing temples and palaces) to emulate the magic of mountains. They put their entire economy into doing this. When something bad happened they would burn down the tops of all their pyramids and then go a build a new city of pyramids somewhere else, as the previous one had failed them.

They kept doing this, as bad things continued to happen, and they eventually started mass human sacrifice in a last ditch attempt to appease the gods. As this didn't work either their depressingly stupid civilisation collapsed.

[Classic Jorge]

But to instantly mark a faith, any faith, as evil in and of itself is a nonsense. They're generally based on good and solid teachings (islam's five pillars, christian mercy, karma/dharma etc) it's just those teachings are then ignored in favour of a tribal, us-good-them-bad model.

This goes for things like capitalism, communism and all of that stuff too. The bad stuff always comes from the fundamentalist application of a belief system, not the beliefs themself.

[Classic Jorge]

"The markets are displeased! Quickly, we need more bailout cash!"

[Berni]

his ideas, but actually got on a horse, raised an army and immediately started conquering and forcibly-converting people 'by the sword'. Jesus, by contrast, wandered around saying hippyish things and then got crucified. The hard yards were done later by his adherents - most notably St Paul. So that association of Islam and violence is actually inherent to and indivisible from the faith in a way it isn't with most other religions. That legacy of violence is still being played out in modern-day Islam.

[Classic Jorge]

The real conquest didnt come about until the caliphs, at which stage there was already that whole sunni/shia stuff going on.

[Berni]

is how people like ISIS can justifiably say they are following the Prophet's example and teachings, while Christians have to pervert and just plain ignore Christ's teachings before they can do the same.

It is also the reason why calling Islam 'a religion of peace' is simply untrue. The only peace Islam can bring is that of uniform and universal subjugation and obedience.

[Classic Jorge]

It's just like people using the old testament or mahabharrata as justification for stuff. And anyway, Mo's justification was that he was uniting arab lands under islam so I'd be interested to see how ISIS get around this one, doctrinally speaking.