I'm considering a punt on a greek tracker fund

[7evens]

Surely the opportunity for long term growth must be quite a reasonable assertion.
I mean, how much lower can these stocks go ?

[Classic Jorge]

I still maintain that the only possible way out of this is writing off their debts, effectively have them claim national bankruptcy, and start over again with actual reforms.

I did like that they reminded Germany that Greece actually helped write off Germany's debts in 1950 on the basis it was the right thing to do.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Classic Jorge]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

We suffered, man and boy.

[IUFG]

http://bmoreart.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Do-the-Right-Thing-e1341385517219.jpg

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

It's a fugging conspirass.

[Brentwood]

[Classic Jorge]

As a percentage of GDP your debt isnt as high as portugal or italy and is only a shade more than the US's.

Greece still has a lower debt/gdp ratio than japan.

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Berni]

cataclysmically destructive war and there was a continental imperative to rebuild and heal. Besides which, ample demonstration had already been given that a poor, humiliated Germany was in no-one's interests.

Also, the idea that it was 'because it was the right thing to do' was *******s. It was because the US told them to whilst also handing them huge piles of Marshall Aid to stop them going communist.

By contrast with this massive geopolitcal backstory, Greece's debts this time around were incurred because they fancied owning BMWs and living a first world lifestyle on a third world income for a decade or so. While not paying any tax and retiring at 50, of course.

[Berni]

deliberately rear-ended and clutching their necks, you mean? :-(

Still, it'll make a change from West Africans doing it, I suppose.

[Classic Jorge]

I'm not entirely sure a poor, humiliated greece is in anyone's interests, especially given the fact that the ECB - and other sporting bodies - will essentially have to keep pumping aid into greece (which let's be honest, doesnt go anywhere near the greeks, it just goes straight to the banks) anyway.

[Luis Anaconda]

Quite ridiculous the number of people who are using that argument

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Do you have a mortgage, j? Does being asked to repay it 'humiliate' you?

[Berni]

up for decades to come either way. The question is solely whether they choose to do so on their terms or one the EU's terms. The end result is much the same either way.

And poor and humiliated is pretty much Greece's default setting, ffs.

[Classic Jorge]

It'd be a tap in even for Angelos Charisteas

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

I am not convinced however, and I admit to not being a keen follower of global finances nor student of current affairs in general, the just writing off their debts is the way forward.

For any debt to be written off there is an injured party and whoever these bubbles are up to their *******s in debt to will suffer. If it is banks for example then there is a domino effect e.g. Lehmann Bros. If it is simply the IMF or whoever that loses out, them having already paid off the indebted bodies, then equally I don’t think this is the way forward.

Having said that I cannot imagine it is very nice for your average bubble on the street as indeed it was not pleasant for us.

In summary, f**k them.

[Luis Anaconda]

[Classic Jorge]

Though I'm not entirely sure the current 'fiscally-prudent' right wing meme of equating national debts to household spending like mortgages, credit cards etc ever really worked for anybody who has even a basic grasp of economics.

I think that's why even the tories have stopped using the analogy tbh, that or the fact that they've borrowed more in the last parliament alone than every labour chancellor in history combined.

[Luis Anaconda]

[Classic Jorge]

Not that it looks like we actually will, mind. Or we do.

We'll just continue to create even more debt, which we pretend is real money, loading it onto them for what looks like 50 years at a conservative estimate but could actually be perpetuity, or even possibly be much shorter than that if some of the delicate balancing goes out of whack and it snowballs.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Does 'loan' have a different meaning where you come from, Milt?

[Berni]

balance sheets will simply disappear and no-one will feel the pinch from it? Don't think so, j.

Besides which, writing off the debts is politically unacceptable since others such as Ireland have been made to pay theirs. Greece cannot be let off - it would rip Europe apart.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

And we didn't piss that money away on fancy cars and early retirement.

[Classic Jorge]

It'd be like suing a tramp for 1m pounds, pointless and expensive, not to mention utterly futile.

Greece's debt is so bad, and has also been massively compounded by further restructuring, that it's running the risk of not being in any way viable.

If, say, the debt could be effectively written off by long grassing it for 50-75-100 years it would allow time and space for proper, effective structural reforms to take place and get them back on an even footing again.

[Rich]

Barclays account at the moment earning next to nothing in interest.

Where should I invest it for a good yield without taking too much of a risk that it just goes up in smoke?

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

relief whatsoever. They don't like being reminded of that when they're going on about how they 'saved' us. Pricks.

[Classic Jorge]

However unpleasant it will be I'm not sure what the other options are.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Unit trusts would be the obvious answer, I suppose. But you need professional advice.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Have someone loosen your stays and take a deep breath. :thumbup:

[Classic Jorge]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Parking the debt for 100 years as an example I don’t think is the way forward as the lazy bubbles won’t give it a seconds thought until year 99.

I do not confess to knowing any of the answers. Essentially I couldn’t give a monkeys as I tend to give a massive S to werve on all and any issues political.

Dangerous grounds just going round writing off national debts etc. Not sure even Bono would ask for that.

[Classic Jorge]

We crossed the lexicon on this a long time ago and i'm not sure any orthadox solutions will do it.

Obviously it would be better if they could repay it but given that they will still need all of the assistance they are getting now in 15 years time, and possibly another 3,4 or 5 bailouts too, it doesnt seem like the orthadoxy has an actual answer to it.

[Pokster]