Ah, the old religion of peace has struck again in France, I see.

[Berni]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33284937

[Snin]

mad as frogs

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Ah. It's all our fault, apparently.

[Lt. Gooner 2002]

Somehow I feel the Japs had this right with the whole Samuri sword and one clean stroke method.

Just saying there's no point making a man suffer than he has too with this.

[Classic Jorge]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-33252264 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-33252264)

[Berni]

[Luis Anaconda]

[Snin]

or just a fun loving criminal ?

[Classic Jorge]

If you're anything up of tanned you're immediately a terrorist.

[Luis Anaconda]

again just because he wasn't labelled a terrorist. Was a fairly pathetic reaction to a terrible event from so many people to try to make an issue about labels

[Luis Anaconda]

[Snin]

murdering toe rags or cnuts for short

[Snin]

[Luis Anaconda]

given the whole "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" dichotomy

[Classic Jorge]

He was given a burger king and led to the cells unshakled with a bulletproof vest on when he's just massacred a bunch of people in a church, whereas black guys who've been stopped on the street as a matter of course have been shot in the back and killed.

The bloke who macheted the sikh dentist wasnt even reported as a racist attack, let alone a far right/neo nazi/nationalist, even when he admitted he went for him as he "looked asian" and "loved hitler".

[Classic Jorge]

[Pokster]

:yellowcard:

[Peter]

Rings particular bells with the public, particularly in america. Not that public perception or media pressure would ever influence a trial or its outcome, obviously

Pretty sure it also changes the powers available to the police in detaining/charging you.

[Berni]

committed this century has been committed by non-white people. That is not the same as terrorism being a 'racial label'. You're just choosing to racialise in order to demonise white, western societies.

[Peter]

[Classic Jorge]

It's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy to say most terror has been committed by non-white people when my point is that it's almost exclusively used to describe the actions of non-whites.

[Berni]

whitest in the western world, though, so the idea that terrorists are brown is actually a relatively new one for us.

The fact that the Americans have largely only dealt with terrorists who happen to be non-white does naturally tend to skew their view of things, but I can't think of anyone I would classify as a terrorist who has not been treated as one. A terrorist has clear political aims and is part of a wider political movement. The guy in Charleston was neither - he was just a racist nutjob with a gun.

[Berni]

such. However, if you at any stage mention Tony Blair, George Bush, Israel or the military actions of legitimate nation states, a buzzer will go off and your answer will be rendered invalid.

[Classic Jorge]

[Peter]

Is probably not a great advantage.

Still, there is a fine line between a nutjob with a gun and someone who is part of a loosely bound wider movement.

[Peter]

[Berni]

taken in defence of its people or interests is not terrorism.

Or, if it is, there is no such thing as terrorism and we should all go home.

[Luis Anaconda]

Zack Davies, 26, targeted Dr Sarandev Bhambra at a Tesco store in Mold, Flintshire, in a racially motivated revenge assault for the murder of Fusilier Lee Rigby.

"We are in no doubt that had the racial disposition of this case been reversed this would be reported as an act of terror" - Dr Tarlochan Singh Bhambra, Sarandev's brother"

That is from the actual report you posted

Just a few snippets from elsewehere
Nazi-obsessed loner guilty of attempted murder of dentist in racist attack
Nazi obsessive 'chased Asian dentist through supermarket and...
Man convicted of racist machete attack on stranger

A trainee dentist nearly lost his hand in a racist attack by a man wielding a machete and hammer who said that he wanted revenge for the killing of Fusilier Lee Rigby, a court was told.

Even the Daily Mail
A white supremacist has been found guilty of trying to behead an Asian dentist with a machete and a hammer in front of shoppers in a Tesco stor

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

wd j.

[Classic Jorge]

...and *isnt* taken in defence of its people or interests, but is carried out in order to use violence, or the threat of violence to achieve a military goal? Does that count as terrorism then?

If not, what does that count as? Is all military action legitimate as long as it's taken by the military or are we going back to the geneva convention here?

This sounds like a blanket exemtion of military forces to me. Are we also exempting mercenaries like Blackwater too, on the grounds that they are agents of a legitimate state?

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

would you bother?

The Geneva Convention is a bit of a nonsense, really, since wars are messy businesses that don't really have rules. However, it's useful to have some agreed guidelines on behaviour whereby transgression is felt to be a war crime.

But basically, yes. Any military personnel or agent of a legitimate state cannot really be a terrorist. They may act illegally, but they may not be a terrorist while acting under orders.

[Classic Jorge]

Without wanting to open this up to arguments we all got sick of twelve years ago, was the whole lee rigby thing an act of terror and was this latest thing with the dentist in a supermarket too?

[Trixie Popsicle]

[Trixie Popsicle]

[Berni]

that encourages, funds and supports such attacks. The attack was undertaken with explicit political motives - indeed, the attackers were kind enough to share these motives and aims with the surrounding public.

The attack aimed to terrorise the population at large into changing governmental policy and to impress upon them the lengths to which adherents of radical Islam would go to achieve these ends.

The attack was also very deliberately made against a soldier - a representative of the state and its actions - it was therefore explicitly an attack made against a state rather than against an amorphous group of people the attackers simply didn't like much.

So, the attack had clear political aims, clear political motivation, was undertaken with the aim of gaining as much publicity as possible and was part of a larger, explicit paramilitary movement whose agenda it met and that has made threats to perform precisely such acts before.

On the other hand, the thing with the dentist was a loony who didn't like brown people attacking a Sikh because he couldn't find a muslim. It had no wider purpose

[Snin]

outing of the word but fair dos sorry for any afence like

[Snin]

racists are murderous racists..plus that obama outed the word..but being a welsh hommie myself i understand racism so apologise sir..i did try to edit but it wont let me

[Classic Jorge]

And his aim was explicitly to initimdate UK muslims, even if he wasnt so great at identifying them.

I guess it's all down to your definitions.

[Bergkamp's Brain]

a lot of them were white and within the country.

[Berni]

he was attacking.

I suppose it depends if you consider racism to be a political creed. I don't personally.

[Classic Jorge]

I mean, these hanging about the house isnt really just the work of someone who doesnt like [insert racial term here], is it?

http://i4.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article5949007.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/Nazi-literature-found-during-a-police-search-of-the-home-of-Zack-Davies.jpg

http://i2.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article5949006.ece/ALTERNATES/s615b/A-poster-relating-to-the-2013-murder-of-Fusilier-Rigby.jpg

[Billy Goat Sverige]

[Ashberto]

White terrorists portrayed as freedom fighters.

[Ashberto]

when their domestic authority is under question.

The guff about 'National Interest' may or may not apply, but it hardly matters. Even Shakespeare wrote about 'problems at home - lets have a war with France'.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

It's a war B, not terrorism.

Tiocfaidh ar la.

[redgunamo]

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

[Classic Jorge]

Beyond visiting a mosque (which, lets be honest here, would be weird) I'm not sure the culturally ignorant welsh terrorist did much different.

[redgunamo]

It's just war, and you want to win :shrug:

[redgunamo]

There's never a shortage of people who just fancy a ruck. On both sides.

[Berni]

coherent than 'attack a brown person'.

[Classic Jorge]

They both acted on behalf of an odd, twisted ideology. It's just the muslims that are the terrorists, of course.

[Berni]

the framework of a global Jihad and an already-declared war on the west.

[Classic Jorge]

including ones which claimed many, many more british lives.

[Berni]