I am thinking about leaving the country again.

[Pat Vegas]

[Billy Goat Sverige]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

You have a wife to consider now.

[Snin]

[Pokster]

[Pat Vegas]

I know I am a bore, moaning about being stuck with this type of job. etc. But there really isn't anyway to fix that. I am not young anymore.

[Pat Vegas]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

I'm not unsympathetic, f. I just believe that we live in an age when it's made far too easy to forget that, ultimately, things aren't necessarily fair, and the only person who can deal with your issues is you.

For what it's worth, I prescribe deciding what you would like to do, then doing it. It might not be easy; it might be bloody hard. But it's better than sitting around feeling impotent.

[Classic Jorge]

[Snin]

hup n coming new tech busienss you can throw yourself into and stop moaping about imo.. if you end up in spain or italy or somethnig the best you can hope for is the handyman / pool cleaner with a ponytail and cut off denim shorts imo and alcholic depressive by late 40's with an occasioanl affair when teaching some old milf the guitar

[Snin]

the downside of those programs is you can tell they had sacks of cash to start and can always go back :-)..escape to the wild it was i think..the motorhome they bought to live in was like an off road lorry..worth than most peoples houses :-)

[Brentwood]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

I think it was Tonga anyway.

Being cynical I couldn’t help but think that certain aspects of the program did not add up. I also thought while what they did seemed cool enough it was terribly selfish with regards to their children.

[Snin]

[Pokster]

[Snin]

:hehe:
https://thehuntressvstheheadline.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/faafafine.jpeg?w=497

[Billy Goat Sverige]

Although i'd give Italy a swerve with all those immigrants rocking up.

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

[Billy Goat Sverige]

to europe does it? Or is all immigration the same :rolleyes:

[Classic Jorge]

I mean, well done Sweden and all, but it's hardly a place of pure nordic races.

[Berni]

knocked up one of the native women. You will then take advantage of their generous welfare arrangements.

Doesn't sound great when you put it like that, does it? ;-)

[Billy Goat Sverige]

point that i think Swedish people are f**king retarded. They recently had to treble the amount of places (200 to 600) at immigration centres because of the amount that they're letting in, and the Swedish general public on the news responded with "we have space" when asked about the amount of accommodation available :-|

[Pat Vegas]

[Berni]

It will be fun to watch the facade of Scandi tolerance crack, though, when people start to feel less wealthy and blame it on immigrants (as they always do).

[Billy Goat Sverige]

to a bank/estate agents and the people in the estate agents decided to create a job* for her instead of keep putting money in her cup every day. All i could keep thinking about is how Daily Mail readers would react to a story like that in the comments section :hehe:

*They have her stapling paper together and they communicate via google translate :-|

[Berni]

out of the Mediterranean, though.

[Classic Jorge]

All that "Mine! Get Out! Mine!" stuff will subside sooner or later and you'll realise that by sharing just a little bit you're actually helping a lot.

Social Democracy :cloud9:

[Berni]

Every street near the station features some bint in a headscarf trying to sell you a copy of 'Roma Life' quite aggressively.

[Classic Jorge]

Though you have to admit that the idea of a reverse viking invasion is funny

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

At the moment I'm sharing better than 50 pc. Is that not more than a little bit?

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

It's like f**king Bucharest these days.

[Pat Vegas]

I will be known as the fixer.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

a shortage. Even where i am up in the north there's a waiting list for rental apartments.

The facade is already cracking amongst the younger population by the way. They'll never say it publicly, but behind closed doors you hear the truth :hehe:

[Berni]

slightly austere, frugal and - dare I say it - protestant, northern European country that shares those values of hard work, contributing to the common weal and co-operation.

When you start f**king up the cultural mix by including large numbers of people without that cultural background, the whole thing goes to ****. Which it will.

[Classic Jorge]

Maybe we should relax a bit and stop directing our ire at people that need help.

[Berni]

Found this nice restaurant in Hertford on Friday, by the way. Called Lussman's. Your pal Giles Coren likes it. We must go next time you're up here.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

And they're always f**king each other, no? They should have filled it up by now.

[Classic Jorge]

As I've explained before, a large percentage of benefits goes on things like tax credits so maybe you should object to companies that refuse to pay a living wage to employees safe in the knowledge that government will subsidise them.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

I'll look forward to it.

Don't forget we must perfect the rotisserie doner this year.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

It was the socialists what done it.

[Snin]

[Billy Goat Sverige]

with 3/4/5 kids.

[Berni]

Scotland or Wales, so immigrants aren't going to go there, I'm afraid.

Also, with its history as a seafaring and trading nation, Britain has always been much more diverse culturally, racially and religiously than places like Scandinavia, so that comparison doesn't stand up, I'm afraid.

[Classic Jorge]

They can choose to pay people what they want, or they can choose to have the state subsidise their lack of morals.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

They're very permissive, apparently. Or that's what we were told in the 1970s, anyway.

[Berni]

children, so they don't.

[Snin]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

It was the socialists who engineered this welfare dependency in search of a committed vote base. Look where that's got us.

[Snin]

imo ..he can buy himself a hotel or cafe or anything with cash in hand in the upcoming firesale imo.

[Classic Jorge]

Also, it does seem you're saying our historical diversity makes us less likely to be able to accept immigration. Forgive me if I've misconstrued.

[Monty91]

per chance?

[Classic Jorge]

Given that 4m people claim tax credits and labour only got 9m votes etc etc

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

I mean, usually everything the f**kers touch turns to gold, doesn't it?

[Berni]

And you're wrong. If you don't count island states, city states, etc, England (NB England, not Scotland, Wales, NI etc) is the fifth most densely-populated country on earth. Don't believe me? Here's the info from a left-of-centre source for you.

http://www.tavinstitute.org/infographics/

So stop ignoring facts in your attempt to paint me as xenophobic.

[Classic Jorge]

[Pokster]

place called India

[Berni]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

:shrug: Once the whole population is dependent on the State, embodied by the Party, they won't be able to afford to vote for anyone else lest they lose their benefits, the appalling consequences of which may include 'having to wait 6 months to upgrade your iPhone'.

[Classic Jorge]

I'm not so sure individualism is incompaable with compassion though, that's a totally subjective reading.

Just an idea, maybe we should look at diversifying our economy, given there's depopulation in large parts of the country.

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

I'm pointing out the fact that economic immigrants go where the money is. And the money is in England and always will be. Thus, you have to be realistic enough about immigration to say that, given that fact, is it reasonable for such a densely populated country as England indisputably is, to keep absorbing immigration? That's not xenophobic or racist, it's simply a question of how long you can keep pouring liquid into a vessel of a fixed volume. That is a valid question. Dismissing such a question as xenophobia or racism is utterly unhelpful and ultimately self-defeating, since it simply fuels anger and resentment that eventually does turn into racism or extremism on the part of those who are shouted down as 'racist'.

On another note, I wonder if, given how much you admire the Scandinavian systems that cater for small, sparsely-concentrated populations, whether you give any credit to this country's remarkable capacity to create such a high standard of living, freedom and political stability for such a large number of people despite being so enormously overcrowded?

No? Thought not. :hehe:

[Classic Jorge]

Especially when, on balance and as illustrated by the tax credits points below, immigration and asylum is a tiny part of the welfare spending. Not to mention one which is shrinking year-on-year.

The problem remains that we are basing an economy on financial services and propping it up with an unsustainable housing bubble almost entirely focussed on one, very overcrowded, corner of the country. If the economy was more well balanced, and central planning would play a large part in that, then the pressure would be evenly spread around much less densely populated areas and the problem would dissipate.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

You want tractor factories and turnip farming on a heroic scale, don't you? :-(

[Berni]

from London and towards the regions, yes? Presumably this will be achieved by taking the money made in...ermm...the South East at other parts of the country until the South East is as poor as the rest of the country? Is that about the size of it?

glwtpimo

[Classic Jorge]

When you consider how many levers the state has at its disposal to augment the economic balance of power away from the south east - not to dilute its power but simply to eleviate some of the pressure on the infrastructure, buying some time to develop more - you cant help but feel it's a missed opportunity from successive governments.

That's the advantage of the 'big state' that people who are so in thrall to free market fundamentalism so often miss. It's like garden trellising, build it in the right way and train some seedlings around it and in a few years time you'll have a grape vine.

[redgunamo]

She can't be bored with you already surely :-(

[redgunamo]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Such crimes against humanity may be run of the mill to you old Stalinists, but to those of us who feel compassionate about our fellows, this sort of behaviour is abhorrent.

And don't get me started on starving Kulaks as a leisure activity. It's just not on, j.

[Classic Jorge]

Just think how much money you could save relocating government beurocracies and central functions away from central london, for starters.

http://i.guim.co.uk/media/w-620/h--/q-95/0f9ccafe51dfe423d613abce96b531f2259c2938/0_113_4842_2904/1000.jpg

I'm suggesting a more balanced and diffuse economy, which would in turn make it more robust and resistant to specific downturns. I know it sounds like dangerous socialist rhetoric but imagine someone else saying it.

[redgunamo]

Or at least, their wives will.

[Snin]

think it would be best for the lazy toe rag..ive tried selling him on the idea of network/it flying drones and killing people..seems to have raiseda slight grunt but not sure if i can get him through the door...a press gang would be good

[Classic Jorge]

....commutes which dont run into hours.

If they last the first winter they'll live, if.

[Classic Jorge]

It's got Julia Swahahahahahahlalala in and everything
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/11/Press_Gnag_-_Spike,_Kenny_and_Lynda.JPG

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

where people want to live, to Siberia, I mean up north, where they don't?

Why not just be honest and build enormous camps and call them gulags?

[Berni]

do that, plus they're still paying for presenters to be flown up there and back from London every day. 11m quid was spent on temporary accommodation. Its executives' expenses rose 20 per cent and it still barely employs anyone local. And they still have no idea when they'll recoup the costs as it's still haemorrhaging money.

The whole thing was a massive waste of licence payers' money done at the behest of the Labour government and was frankly a disgraceful enterprise all round. No real business would have done it in a million years because the shareholders would have demand the heads of the board for such an appalling move. But the BBC can just piss away public money with no negative repercussions. Anyone pointing to BBC North as an example of benign central planning is out of their f**king mind.

[Berni]

raised in the South East, though. It requires gigantic levels of subsidy that actually have to come from somewhere.

[Classic Jorge]

A friend of mine has also just also relocated his whole business to Salford from near Leeds, employing 30plus people, as they've won a huge BBC contract.

Factor in the lease arrangements on the many properties that they've left and it'll start making economic sense in no time at all.

Obviously the Telegraph wont run those stories, unless HSBC ask them to, but it's done a huge amount to regenerate a pretty depressed area.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

I'd rather die.

[Classic Jorge]

[redgunamo]

I blame the parents.

[Berni]

the point, surely? Oh, and since when was it the BBC's prerogative to undertake acts of social engineering with licence payers' money anyway? I would have thought its duty was to make programmes well and cost-effectively, no? How does spending nearly a billion quid on a northern office do that, exactly?

[Classic Jorge]

I simply dont understand what's so controversial about stimulating the growth of a more balanced, more dispersed economy.

The BBC move was just one recent example to illustrate the economic benefits of doing just that, and eleviating the same massive overcrowding that's seen you effectively have to make your home in the north to boot.

What else are governments for if not to undertake "social engineering"?

[redgunamo]

The urban centres anyway.

[Berni]

I mean obviously that's a bad joke, but still. It's not supposed to be an arm or tool of government. Because (ho-ho) the licence fee isn't a tax, remember? It's just mandatory and you go to prison if you don't pay it...hmmm.

The thing is that the whole 'saving money' idea ignores the laws of the market. As wages in the area rise, so do prices of goods, services, housing, accommodation and labour - and so it goes round again.

In other words, there will be no savings because you are simply artificially driving up wages. The money just moves from one area to another.

[redgunamo]

means my sons picking my pockets while I'm enjoying a fatherly afternoon nap and skiving school and going treasure-hunting in the Caribbean with the cash.

It does sound well though, I agree with you there. So long as it's with *somebody else's* money.

[Classic Jorge]

That's the problem with unchecked free market capitalism, it leads to unaccountable monopolies which drive down prices to unsustainably low levels if left unregulated and ungoverned.

It's the state broadcaster so, whilst it isnt independent it is far more independent than, say, a company run by some australian magalomaniac or weird pair of brothers from a channel island.

[Classic Jorge]

[redgunamo]

By stealing someone else's if necessary. But that's not the point obviously http://www.awimb.com/images/smiley_icons/ohwell.gif

[Classic Jorge]

[redgunamo]

[redgunamo]

All that's more to do with the environment than the people themselves though; Scandinavia is a traditionally tough place to make a living. Put them in Bavaria or Nebraska though and they will breed just like the native rabbits.