I pride myself on my decent political knowledge but who the f**k is Liz Kendall?

[Classic Jorge]

The silly lady seems to think they lost the last election due to them not being Blairite enough.

I dont know anybody, left or right, who hears the name Blair and doesnt do a little involuntary sick in their mouth. Bueno aside, who flies into all manner of uncontrolable rage.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

1. Tony Blair
2. Um, that's it.

[Classic Jorge]

I'll wager it's somewhere between me and bueno

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

from a Labour government and was skilled at making them believe he was giving it to them. I disagreed with many of his policies, of course, but I don't hold that against him personally.

He seemed to me reasonably statesmanlike when he represented the UK globally.

I think he's over-vilified with regard to Iraq. I believe that we still don't know exactly what was going on behind the scenes.

[Ashberto]

An 'ideas' man who liked a holy war or two, but wasn't keen on details like facts imo.

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[redgunamo]

As PM though, he had to do as he was told :shrug:

[Berni]

Anyone who would puts their principles ahead of the welfare of this country and its populace should be nowhere near Downing Street.

[Luis Anaconda]

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Amerikan lickspittles? Something like that.

[Classic Jorge]

Which, I think we can all agree, hasnt been entirely successful.

[Berni]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

pretty successful. It's hard to say how much worse the effects of terrorism might have been if the US hadn't bombed the living piss out of Tora Bora.

With Iraq, as I said above, I suspect that there was something else going on to push Bush so hard into going in there. We'll probably find out in 75 years. In the meantime, it's hard to argue against the removal of a dictator such as Hussein - failing to have a robust enough exit strategy is another issue.

[Ashberto]

If any facts got in the way he'd just ignore them, get his people to make up some new ones and run with those.

A country run by pragmatists wouldn't have had a war for decades imo, providing they were stronger than the war-is-business brigade, of course.

[Classic Jorge]

And not even the good type that reduces a pretty young thing's self-esteem to the point she'll sleep with you.

[Classic Jorge]

[Monty91]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

What's so hard about saying, 'I don't know'?

[Classic Jorge]

Anyway, it's all very "judge me in May"

[Berni]

feet, there was widespread disarmament and rise in prosperity, etc, etc.

Ten years means f**k all.

[Classic Jorge]

[Monty91]

[Berni]

Seriously, have a look at what you just wrote, have a long hard look in the mirror and try not to cringe too much.

'The world moves much quicker now', indeed! For shame, j! :hehe:

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Berni]

the fact that we are effectively engaged in a global conflict with the muslim world and a first attempt to grasp that nettle. In a century's time, I suspect we'll just see them as the early skirmishes in a conflict that may still be ongoing at that time.

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

[redgunamo]

[redgunamo]