This may well be the most profoundly depressing election for some time

[Classic Jorge]

In fact, I don't think I can remember a more depressing one since 1992.

Nobody feels engaged in the process and the general consensus seems to be that they are all liars and frauds. Still, at least the xenophobic parties seem to have run out of steam, that's a plus, I suppose.

[Berni]

What f**king process? You turn up and vote. Or you don't. That's it. It's not complex or life-altering, it's just a part of the routine of civil society, like paying your taxes or separating your recycling. All this dewy-eyed bull**** about engagement is just that. I've been voting since 92 and I'm struggling to think when this golden period of engagement was, to be honest. I've certainly never known an election where anyone felt particularly different. If anything, this one is more interesting than previous elections, since it's less binary.

If people don't 'feel engaged' in it, it's because they're too f**king thick, ignorant and/or have their heads too far up their own arses to realise that elections aren't all about them. Pricks.

[Monty91]

isn't *entirely* up my own arse, imo.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

I have never voted either.

No interest.

[Classic Jorge]

There are no party stands in market squares, I've not even had a leaflet.

It sort of feels like there's more of a disconnect than there used to be, at the very basic level people have gone from "I'll vote for X because..." to "I can't be bothered to vote, not for any of them anyway".

[Snin]

[Berni]

However, if you start blaming the political process for your own idleness and apathy, I will take issue with you. It isn't politics' job to interest people. Politics is just there, affecting your life whether you like it or not. For most intelligent people, that fact is enough to make them interested in it. It doesn't need to attach bells and whistles.

[Monty91]

I have a healthy interest in politics.

[Classic Jorge]

Better?

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

On your doorstep? And that would constitute 'engaging with the process'?

I'm speechless with wonder at this.

[Berni]

or ignorant to take an interest.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Snin]

hear from gets my vote..any cnut who speaks ot me or knocks on my door ..gets a straight no and off my list right away..i can make my mind up myself without some geeky student right on twunt trying to f**king talk to me or wave a cnut ing leaflet in my face..why do you want this ****e J ??! its f**king bollo0cks

[Snin]

worthless ****es get benefits anyway..they can buy what they cnuting want and still have a bigger tv than me..workshy cnuts

[Classic Jorge]

Which is usually exactly the sort of sanctimonious **** I get when I mention that I can't be arsed.

Presumably those same people also fought and died for your right to exercise your own free will and vote for whoever you want to, or not, or were they specifically fighting for a clucking, moralistic, passive-aggressive society of dutiful judging ****ers?

[Snin]

[Monty91]

I don't blame anyone. I simply prefer to remain a dispassionate observer when it comes to elections.

I'm aware that if everyone chose the same, we would all be f**ked. But then you could say that about loads of stuff.

[Hillary]

live in a marginal. Never saw hide nor hair of them previously. Living in a safe seats has its positives...

[Berni]

For me, it seemed like a heartening vindication of the democratic process where, in defiance of the polls, the British electorate got to the ballot box and thought 'Sorry, but there is no f**king way I'm voting for that ginger Welsh gob****e" and did the right thing.

[Snin]

worthless..useless cnuts

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

I would imagine if I had any interest in the former then it may feed a desire to do the latter.

When I was younger voting was based on your religion which I saw as pointless. When I then moved to London I was never on the ER so could not vote so reached a stage where I just had no interest or 'engagement' as Jorge may suggest.

Now I think they are all just liars each as bad as the other so cannot be bothered. They come to my door and on occasion have literally been told to "f**k off", but only when they refuse to accept my original statement that I have no interest.

I don't even bother with meaningless ****e like Presidential Elections here.

[Classic Jorge]

The point is that these people are party volunteers, canvassing is the first step on the rung to actually having a career in politics - unless you go the PPE/SPAD route - and there seems to not be anybody on that ladder now.

[Berni]

about the duty to vote. If democracy means anything, it means the right to opt out, surely?

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Register at my old man's house and tick the Catholic boxes when the time comes.

[Classic Jorge]

1992 was pretty much the first time I realised that the country was jam packed with c**ts, though the previous couple of elections really should've been a tiny clue.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

pushing leaflets through letterboxes wearing a polyester suit :shudder:

These people will never in their lives see a real lady naked.

[Classic Jorge]

And before you tear off on your denunciation of me as a communist who simply doesn't understand the value of a private education I'd like to point out this goes for the leaders and the top boys in every party even close to power.

[Monty91]

pale

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

But then I'm weird, me.

[Berni]

:hehe: Probably my favourite moment in British politics ever, this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ROKXlvYMKQc

[Classic Jorge]

The Lib Dems won't come near me after an incident in 2005. They put a sign up in my garden for their candidate without asking so when they canvassed me I marched them from my door back to their Nissan Micra and forced the rather too big sign into the car.

[Classic Jorge]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Or something like that.

As opposed to you simply not turning out on the day.

[Classic Jorge]

See, we were doing an event at the arena and I did that to test the sound. Nobody got it

[Berni]

to vote in the first place. I'd set the hounds on them if I had any.

[Monty91]

[Classic Jorge]

Or does that mean something would need to change and therefore it is bad and wrong?

[Berni]

And that's before you factor in just what a c**t he's making of himself. :hehe:

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

elections as protest votes, which by extension would be considered votes for the CPGB.

Sadly, this cunning plan failed to impress the legislators.

[Classic Jorge]

Even the mentals who daub abuse on their ballots are considered more

[Berni]

There are lots of individual bits and pieces that require updating or alteration from time to time, but this 'system' you speak of is unknown to me. I have a strong suspicion that, when anyone talks about wanting to change 'the system', they are being monumentally simplistic and probably have no idea how complicated things are.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Your politics appear to me solely negative. Just moaning about how **** everything is isn't engaging, you know. It's ducking out.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

The second point of which is then on occasion used to point the finger at local authorities about errors and accuracy in the ER collation process.

[Classic Jorge]

I don't think identifying tweaks, bottlenecks and changes in the process is simplistic. Talking about "the system" as a whole might be but those are my subjective ideas.

I was wondering whether you had any, or whether you were really, really happy with the way everything works and thus just wanted to blame people for not taking part in it.

[Classic Jorge]

..solutions. I propose plenty of solutions.

That's usually the point you call me a stalinist and claim that I want to knock down parliament and build a scale model of the kremlin instead, remember?

[Berni]

honest. Not least in that I'd remove the franchise from a significant portion of the population. :shrug:

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

That's how these things work.

I'm happy to point out flaws where I see them, but I see good stuff overall as well.

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

[Classic Jorge]

Still, I guess it's preferable to genocide.

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

They're literally midwifed between systems right the way through to the cabinet via a nice, safe seat.

[Berni]

concerned.

Ideally, though, I'd make the voting age 25 and insist that only those who are net contributors to the common weal could vote - and that only after a basic test on poltics and history. Everyone else could properly f**k off.

[Classic Jorge]

You'd be worried if there were no young lads playing for the colts (is that what they call it) team at your cricket club

[Berni]

[Berni]

It's amazing Peel, Palmerston, Disraeli and Gladstone managed, really.

[Classic Jorge]

You and I might be a lot closer than you think though I'd stop the over 60s voting.

[Berni]

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

['Neg]

[Berni]

This pernicious myth of the need for public engagement just leads to populist pandering to the ignorant and stupid.

[Classic Jorge]

Though that didn't help Miliband, who went to a state school but also took the Oxford>SPAD>safe seat>cabinet route to the top.

My point isn't what school they went to, it's their lack of contact with the real world that's worrying.

Look at them all, none of the f**kers have the faintest idea how to converse with real people.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

And passengers don't get to decide what route the ship takes.

[Berni]

those awful plebs are looked after (often in spite of themselves) nand have food, roads, houses, utilities and all that other ****.

Representing the public is the least important thing a politician does.

[Classic Jorge]

It's also simply not true as it ignores all the people who don't have bottom line jobs - Nurses, Firemen, Teachers - who make an enormous contribution to society.

[Classic Jorge]

It's precisely this sort of overly simplistic, macho, wrong-headed ethos that's got us into this mess.

[Berni]

that - even without excluding those without money from the franchise - they tend to exclude themselves. What more proof could you need that money - either in its presence or absence - is what drives political engagement?

[Berni]

how government works. They're all cogs in the machine of government.

[Classic Jorge]

And that it's in nobody in power's interest to try and include them again.

[Classic Jorge]

MPs are there to represent the people. If they aren't then we need a system where they do.

[Snin]

[Berni]

remained pretty steadily at between 70 and 80% between 1945 and 1992 (only spiking in 1950 and 51 in its desperation to get rid of the oh-so-wonderful Attlee government, interestingly). Where it fell off a cliff was after 1997 under the Blair government, during which Labour's assumption of Tory clothes was so complete as to render party politics largely meaningless.

In the last two elections, it has actually risen as the cut-and-thrust of party division has returned (and one would expect it to do so again in this one).

http://www.ukpolitical.info/Turnout45.htm

[Berni]

The last thing anyone wants is the people's views being represented.

[Berni]

Cameron is an Etonian, but is far more personable and urbane than any Labour frontbencher you could name. British public schools wouldn't be as successful as they are if they turned out the sort of personality-free robots you seem to suggest.

[Classic Jorge]

What NuLabor did to the working classes in this country was almost as bad as what thatcher did before them.

That's why they'll never, ever get my vote

[Classic Jorge]

I didn't put it down to their schooling, it's more down to the fact they've been schooled since day one to do what they do. They've got no life experience at all, in fact Cameron's short stint in PR for Carlton is literally the only "real world" experience between any of the party leaders.

Call me old fashioned but I find polymaths interesting, specialists are unbelievably dull. And there's a reason for it.

[Berni]

more engaged the voters are.

In other words, this stuff about how people want more consensual, less Punch-and-Judy politics is just so much *******s. People like having a team to root for that's significantly distinct from the other.

[Classic Jorge]

And if that's simplistic so be it

[Classic Jorge]

Elections are just the wimbeldon of party politics. A real measure of engagement would be the amount of party members and donations adjusted for inflation but I don't have those figures. I am happy to take a guess and say they're f**ked* though.

*f**ked apart from massive donations from shady tax exiles over here who pay 200k for bronze busts of thatcher, of course.

wd the capital flight and loose non-dom tax loopholes imo

[Hillary]

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

Here's Connie a bit short on clothes and - if I'm any judge - gakked off her tits.

http://img28.fansshare.com/photos/konniehuq/konnie-huq-hotpg-961968631.jpg

[Classic Jorge]

Of course, back in the day it was all about the acid.

Look at him there, off his tits on blotters.

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/bp_simon_goldie.jpg

[Berni]

[Classic Jorge]

[Hillary]

Angie Bray is much more personal (as told to me by a Labour voter).

[Classic Jorge]

[Hillary]