Monty - you asked the other day if I thought Big Ron and Dave Whelan should have kept or lost their

[Ashberto]

jobs after I apparently said that people should not lose their jobs because of their opinions, or something. I can't remember the context of what I said but yes, that is broadly my position.

I don't care whether Whelan is the chairman of Wigan or not, but I certainly wouldn't be demanding that he gets hounded out. I can't stand these Twitch-Hunts, tbh.

As far as Big Ron goes, anyone who drops an N-bomb into a microphone is what is known in some quarters as a f**king thick c**t who is evidently unqualified to be a broadcaster. Of course, the irony of all this is that Atkinson did more for black footballers, and perhaps by extension, black people in this country generally, than most of the professional anti-racists put together.

Should Keys and Gray have lost their jobs? Yes, because they were **** anyway. Should they be denied the chance to work again? No. If someone else wants to employ them and their audiences wish to listen to them then fine. Same goes for Big Ron. We also have to ask ourselves whether Andy Townsend has been a good thing. Not for me, Clive.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

'Be careful what you wish for', I said. We lost the joy of Ronglish and got Andy f**king Townsend :cry:

I liked Andy Gray, in general. 'Tek a boo son', and so on. He could occasionally find le mot juste.

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

What was he thinking? He used to be so bright eyes, not like him to not be in the wide awake club.















I blame the samb...........oh ****, I've not pressed the post button yet

[Monty91]

schadenfreude over anyone whose opinions you find reprehensible suffering any level of cummupance, however extreme or mild.

[Monty91]

[Ashberto]

[Classic Jorge]

[Monty91]

Obviously this will depend on the nature of their thought crime, so perhaps you could draw me up a sliding scale?

Nazi sympathisers - spat at in the street
Billionaire fashion designers and objectors to IVF babies - drop in revenue

...?

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

It is for me, Clive.

It might well be a good feeling to try to deny yourself.

[Monty91]

suffers a particularly nasty injury.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

I would be happy that the consequences might weaken Chelsea, but delighting in harm on another? Not for me Clive.

[Classic Jorge]

[Monty91]

perhaps on her way to pick up an award for journalism?

[Ashberto]

Perhaps a leaflet campaign saying "Down with that sort of thing".

But seriously, you touched it with the label "thought-crime". There shouldn't be any such thing outside of dystopian sci-fi novels, and anyone who would criminalise people just for their thoughts definitely deserves cancer.

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/3NHmOfwI1Kw/hqdefault.jpg

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Get to f**k.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Despite evil Dave's football tax.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Twitter. Thoughtcrime is a fully-fledged offence, to be rooted out and punished as a priority.

[Monty91]

but you also oppose citizens who may wish to apply their own retribution in the form of a twitch-hunt or whatever else.

My point is, if you are truly consistent in your view, you yourself would not be allowed to take pleasure in anyone whose opinions you don't like experiencing any kind of comeuppance.

Surely we should all retain the freedom to be unpleasant to people we consider c**ts out of pure, petty, malicious spite?

[Classic Jorge]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2435751/Red-Eds-pled ge-bring-socialism-homage-Marxist-father-Ralph-Miliband-says -GEOFFREY-LEVY.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2435751/Red-Eds-pledge-bring-socialism-homage-Marxist-father-Ralph-Miliband-says-GEOFFREY-LEVY.html)

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

and pointing out, quite pertinently, that the father of a potential prime minister was a dangerous believer in an a system of authoritarian dictatorship.

[Ashberto]

to sort of, erm, counterpoint the surrealism of the underlying metaphor, or something.

Anyway, she pretended to be shouting by a sign saying "silence". In the ensuing outrage she lost her job. She might have been silly, and even offensive, but she shouldn't lose her job for it.

http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/article_large/hash/b7/33/b73326376e226836a043d2ea86b92800.jpg?itok=QTDqVmVF

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

mainstream. Their forebears, the National Socialists and the Soviet Union, were also masters of propaganda.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

I'd quite like to know before that, you know, that he hates the country he governs.

[Ashberto]

You're asking where I stand on a hypothetical twitch-hunt against twitch-hunts? A meta-twitch-hunt?

This is a man with one post and zero followers on Twitter you are talking to here.

[Classic Jorge]

He's hardly some sort of dangerous fifth columnist, he was a very well thought of academic who was vey critical of soviet governments.

Also, if you're being all godly, how about some good old fashioned "sins of the father.. " stuff?

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Classic Jorge]

How is the current culture in any way "left"? It's liberal at best, and even a cursory knowledge of the world in general would tell you that liberalism is not the preserve of the left or the right.

[Classic Jorge]

We've all got our hobby horses, C.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Perhaps a period of re-education could return me to the Truth?

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

consistently manage to ignore.

Still, if mass slavery torture and murder is the same as Ron Atkinson using an offensive word, you must be right.

[Classic Jorge]

It's like me saying capitalism is evil because people fighting in it's name dropped nuclear bombs on people. It's simplistic to the point of being moronic.

[Monty91]

or individuals, for holding an opinion.

I'm asking if you personally manage to live up to your own ideals in this regard.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

but it's generally agreed that dropping the atomic bombs saved anywhere from hundreds of thousands to millions of lives, probably mainly Japanese civilians.

Nasty old capitalism, eh? Saving all those lives. *******s.

[Monty91]

people than the firebombing of cities, which would have continued had they not dropped the bigg'un.

[Ashberto]

doesn't clash with these principles we have established because I didn't hate him for what he *thought*, but what he *did*.

Also, I just don't get hung up on this stuff like you do. I don't particularly live for Schadenfreude, other than for the misfortunes of rival football teams, and I don't go around telling Arsenal fans who little bit do not support AW that they are not allowed to emjoy any success we have under him.

[Classic Jorge]

And, of course, history is always written by the winners.

The fact remains, only a moron would blame capitalism for that, even though it was a capitalist government that did it.

[Monty91]

as would having your multi-billion pound business damaged for objecting to IVF babies or losing our job because you were careless enough to let a potentially offensive photo of yourself appear in the public domain.

I'm still left wondering what your parameters are. Are you claiming to never experiencing a sense of pleasure derived from the misfortunes of someone whose opinions you despise?

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

****s and giggles.

What any of this has to do with the evils of Marxism escapes me though. Perhaps your what's outsert was intended to change subject.

[Classic Jorge]

Marxism is not inherently evil, read Capital ffs It's not Mein Kampf

[Ashberto]

Most of the people I dislike are because of what they have done, rather than what they thought or said. Obviously I don't know what they think unless they say it. And even then they might not mean it. (See certain controversial characters on AWIMB, for example).

[Ashberto]

Leninism at a pinch, as he introduced the dictatorship. I'm fairly sure Marx didn't intend the transformation of the means of production to go the way it did. He was into the liberation of the human spirit, rather than its enslavement.