Bloody hell, this holocaust stuff is a bit of a tough sell, isn't it?

[Classic Jorge]

Do you think we're ever going to be allowed to forget World War Two?

I mean, I feel your pain and all but I was born more than 30 years after the f**ker and I've been constantly subjected to it since I was a lad.

Some time off, or at least concentrating on another horrific part of human history, would be nice.

[Berni]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11372201/Stone- Roses-star-Ian-Brown-taught-to-masturbate-by-Fred-the-Weathe rman.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/11372201/Stone-Roses-star-Ian-Brown-taught-to-masturbate-by-Fred-the-Weatherman.html)

[redgunamo]

[Snin]

[Berni]

with this written on his shirt at the weekend. :-(

http://i4.gazettelive.co.uk/incoming/article7589516.ece/alternates/s615/JS43710407.jpg

Straight on to the Board of Deputies, I was. I asked to speak to the man in charge, but that just seemed to confuse them.

[Snin]

aushwitch, etc etc this stuff is getting seriously overplayed..it never used to be as big when i was a kid..its almost like they want to distract us from actual news or summat

[Berni]

[redgunamo]

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

past, we'll bring up generations of comfortable, smug cretins, so insulated from actual hardship and actual evil that they will fail to appreciate just how good they have it and lack the understanding that this privilege comes at the cost of fighting for it.

Oh.

[redgunamo]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

[Berni]

changes accordingly, though.

You can see where they've gone wrong there, can't you?

[redgunamo]

[Classic Jorge]

I'm starting to suspect it's not really about "learning from our past mistakes" at all

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

met by a wall of moral and physical cowardice.

I rather liked this picture, though.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/IAF_F-15_over_Auschwitz_extermination_camp.jpg

[Berni]

http://www.moonbattery.com/che-guevara-communism-killed-tshirt.jpg

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Does this mean ****'s about to happen? Or **** didn't happen?

[Classic Jorge]

It was more that every superpower was deeply f**ked and morally bankrupt. I mean, just look at the freedom loving, bountiful and equal society russia has become now it's embraced the wonders of capitalism.

I think the clue might be that it's Russia, it was like that under peter & catherine and it'll be like that under whoever replaces putin.

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

Must just be a coincidence, eh?

[Classic Jorge]

"Hoping that Paulista is a right dirty *******, full of elbows and ****housing"

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

That's the problem.

[Classic Jorge]

Cuba's changing, jesus even the US have made up with them.

North Korea are just North Korea imo. Impressively hacking into all sorts with their ZX spectrum.

And lets be honest, dodgy stuff is not solely the preserve of left wing countries.

[redgunamo]

[Snin]

:-)

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Pat Vegas]

[Berni]

As a result of which, they're much richer and kill far fewer of their own citizens these days.

Coincidence again? :rubchin:

[Snin]

as are/ were Gambia, liberia, algeria.. are El Salvador, Chile , Argentina, Grenada, South Africa, Rhodesia, , etc ..lovely freedom loving chaps

[Berni]

[Snin]

its not a communist or a capitalist thing..no point in trying to dumb it down to that..its all about power, ****housery and c**thousery on all sides so no point in trying to make out any system is great tbh

[Classic Jorge]

Remind me how that's working out for everyone again, perhaps they just need freer markets

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Bulgaria, and Yugoslavia.

[Snin]

lots of them..i dont thimk left or right wing or psedu politics or beleifs makes feck all difference..none of you are right or wrong..its just a big ol power cluster f**k so why cnut about spouting pointless politik *******s

[Berni]

citizens to death - was simply rendering them all equally poor.

[redgunamo]

Yeah, I know http://www.awimb.com/images/smiley_icons/ohwell.gif

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

[Jorge Likes Snails AND oysters]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

You couldn't make this **** up.

[Berni]

murderous and discriminatory. I was arguing that, given which, it sure has managed to murder and discriminate on a gigantic scale whenever it's been tried. It is a fundamentally anti-human doctrine that attempts to mould people to fit it rather than mould itself to fit humans. Because of that, it has to kill and coerce.

That has absolutely nothing to do with saying that only communist states kill people - which is what you seem to think I'm saying. Are we clear? Good.

[Berni]

The place that everyone is trying to get into so that they can complain about all the inequality, presumably :hehe:

Go figure.

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

it never happened.

[Berni]

[Snin]

plus i dont like idea of all working on some big colourless project / factory autoron *******s.. i was just pointing out all power corrupts and all governments / systems can be cnuts plus need to have a very large base of stupid trodden on people to work..otherwise we all starve..**** happens ..survival of fittest but chuck in some niceness for the good ones

[Snin]

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Cambodia, in Red China were comparable to anything in the West? Do you honestly believe that there is a comparison to be drawn?

I'd say that you seriously need an education, but I despair, really.

[Classic Jorge]

The point, my original point, is that marxism isn't an innately evil ideology, no matter how much you don't agree with it.

[Berni]

in the ways human beings behave. That starts as locking people up for not being prepared to go along with the system, progresses quickly to killing them and anyone else who has slightly different ideas about how to redistribute wealth and soon enough moves on to locking them up, torturing them or killing them for asking if it's fair that the guy at the top gets a dacha in the country while I have to live in a concrete ****hole in Minsk. Or writing the wrong book. Or saying the wrong thing or speaking to the same person.

The point is that such a belief system can only be imposed and maintained by brutality and fear. So to say that it is not inherently murderous is actually wrong.

[Snin]

Saudi are pretty highly cnutish tbh... oh and also Iran under Shah, Iraq under Sadam ( who was our man remember) and Gadhaffi ( was ours on and off) ...so not in general but we did hang out with quite a murky bunch of cnuts

[Snin]

apart from that carry on

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

economic system because they require compulsion. scumsm, communism, they all end up with some poor ******* having his testes coshed. What we have is far from perfect, but unless we appreciate how lucky we are and how good the good bits are, we're open to letting in some kind of extremism or other. And my sac can do without the coshings these days.

[Berni]

murderous in order to be imposed. It is not a coincidence that communist countries have to have such large numbers of secret and non-secret police, that they do not have jury trial or strong judiciaries that are able to stand up to government, that they all have much larger armies than might seem logical; that they have to restrict freedom of thought and speech - it's because all these things are necessary if you're going to impose such a system. It wouldn't work any other way, so in that sense the ideology - by virtue of being anti-human - has to be murderous.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

That's fine, it's just hard to concentrate on two things at once.

[Berni]

THAT ISN'T WHAT THIS ARGUMENT IS ABOUT

[Snin]

being that my semi marxist dad made his millions creating the patient record system for the Saudi military in the 70's / 80's ..beating ICL and others to the project.. he had to attend a few casual stonings and such like to socialise ..lovely people.. I remember him saying back then the that saudi Sunni Whabbis were the most dangerous thing in the future ..but best take the money first :-)

[Classic Jorge]

Humans kill, rape, murder and steal all the time. Should we use that as a template for a free society?

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

and destroyed Whabbism. But we lack the *******s.

[Snin]

just the communists who have that system, as the ones I mentioned are / were capitalist to a degree thats all.. as you said it was only the commie ones...i have probably missed point aGAIN MIND YOU as i dont really listen x

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

human beings, of course.

However, you would surely accept that there are different degrees of such things and that 18 months in the Scrubs for breaking and entering is rather different to 10 years in a Siberian gulag for writing a book?

[Snin]

[Berni]

[Berni]

Having lots of money isn't the same as being capitalist.

[Classic Jorge]

[redgunamo]

http://www.uaeinteract.com/news/article_pics/uae-63777.jpg

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

No one can be this stupid.

[Snin]

inm saudi who kindly charged no tax stored it with the swiss gnomes at very freidnly rates then those supposedly capitalist tories between the swiss and themselves in 80's suddenly took over 50% of everything he brought back into uk..theft pure n simple. all governemnts as bad as each other.

anarchy is only solution :-)

[Mo Britain less Europe]

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

Which is why pretty much any governmental ideology or system is evil

[redgunamo]

People You Care About v People You Don't, for example.

[Berni]

of the most evil regimes ever inflicted upon man, there's nothing I can do to stop you, I fear. I could point out that your argument is morally and intellectually bankrupt and that even to draw the comparison you have is to belittle the suffering of untold millions of people and thus pretty repugnant, but why should I bother? f**k it.

I only hope that in your heart of hearts you know you're talking *******s.

[Berni]

[eastgermanautos]

[redgunamo]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

People openly propound this ****. In time it will become accepted as reality.

[Classic Jorge]

I'm not saying one is and one isn't, I'm saying the both are, they all are.

How evil just depends on where you're standing and how close you are to the edge.

[eastgermanautos]

[redgunamo]

After all, presumably there's a reason you choose to live in Yorkshire rather than Yemen?

[Berni]

[Classic Jorge]

Yemen!

http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/Pork-Pie-Desmonds.jpg

[redgunamo]

But you can't go through life holding other people responsible for your life, your decisions, though, can you. You're not a woman, after all.