I must say, I'm not quite as hard-line about the whole thing as yer Berni's of this world,

[Monty91]

but listening to Radio 4 this morning, I found myself disgusted at how much air time was being given to the question of whether the new 'Charlie' front page is offensive to Muslims.

I can't help but think there is literally nothing less important right now, Geoff.

[Berni]

seriously needs to f**k off and take a long, hard look at their definition of 'offensive'.

[Snin]

charlie f**kers need shooting again imo for just being stirring little speccy student politics naive ****s ..they grate me more than ISIL at the moment..pompous little french cnuts..they even sacked a journo few years back for not apologising for doing a cartoon that someone found offensive to jews..double standard smug cnuts..shooting too good for them etc

[Snin]

a cnut..**** mag stuck in 60's , 70's bollox..whole things getting me pretty annoyed tbh... i turn off news when ver they talk about it now tbh

[Monty91]

for raison d'etre is) is to mock religion saying that they forgive the terrorists?

[7evens]

have a limited conscience towards leaving the odd door open, so to speak.

In days past where IRA activists also represented a tiny minority but there was no shortage within local communities, pouring on to the streets whenever one of them was laid to rest.

Perhaps a bit more PR condemnation from prominent Mullahs may not go a miss here and there.

[Berni]

name.

Of course, he wouldn't actually have cared, since he was a raving paranoid schizophrenic who had more people killed than you've had hot dinners.

[Snin]

so why the f**k should they ? anyway have you seen pics of those charlie cnuts ? ..smug prats

[Classic Jorge]

[Monty91]

[Berni]

If they can't then they can f**k off.

[Snin]

ing it by showing even Mo doing it...they think all the the je suis politicans are cnuts for saying je suis charlie..they think we are all cnuts but they happy to print 3 million **** mags and coin it in off the back of the blood of there fellow ex workmates

[Snin]

and if they cant and ban people questioning it they should f**k off?

[Berni]

However, they did so in as non-inflammatory a way as possible. I think it was reasonably well-judged.

[Ashberto]

cartoon.

[Berni]

Stop trying so hard to get a reaction.

[Monty91]

which does feel a bit like a cop-out.

[Berni]

Merely depicting him is a grave offence. And depicting him in a scruffy cartoon form is even worse.

[Snin]

argument..its simplistic tripe..this whole f**king story is pretty irrelevant compared to whats going on around the world and its being blown by the media into a nauseating **** storm of cnutishness.. and in fact on that basis .. Im out of this one, ill leave it to you other dragons

[Ashberto]

it is a flattering depiction or not.

[Monty91]

for depicting him taking a **** on the Koran than in the way the Charlie lads have gone for.

[Ashberto]

it's about the whole culture of going out of ones way to get offended about things, demanding things get banned, and restrictions of freedom.

[Monty91]

for depicting him in any other way than overtly mocking or critical, either of himself or Islam?

[Berni]

Because it poses the crucial question: 'What are you actually getting offended about here?'

If you showed a scatological or deliberately provocative image, it is much easier to dismiss as being motivated by hatred and therefore reprehensible. It would diminish the moral high ground.

[Monty91]

[Monty91]

Still, it arguably doesn't press home the point that even if someone *did* depict him taking a **** on the Koran, they still shouldn't be killed for it.

Small steps, I suppose.

[Ashberto]

while taking a nice little swipe at Family Guy in the process. Their own network ended up censoring the image, but they got away with depicting Mo in Super Best Friends because no attention was drawn to it.

http://richardwritesreligionandspirituality.files.wordpre ss.com/2013/03/south-park-super-best-friends-depiction-of-muhammad.jpg

[Rich]

I know that they want to force their culture on us but we don't want it.

This is not a muslim country so we will not adhere to muslim practices. If they think that we are going to pander them then I suggest they bloody well f**k off out of our country.

[Berni]

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/b8/b83ef345d16a11669ade7d65aab75c34af40ae90df311b9263 ce5aadd3f01b11.jpg

[Classic Jorge]

I'm preaching convivencia here, it's amazing how controversial people think this is.

[Luis Anaconda]

[Berni]

[Ashberto]

"There can be no peace or coexistence between the Islamic faith and non-Islamic societies and political institutions" - Alia Izetbegović.

[7evens]

It may not seem fair but the onus is to surely appease the overwhelming majority who live around you.
This type of stuff is meat and drink to the EDL and assorted thugs. There's a bigger picture here surely. Who wants to see escalation and innocent muslims getting the crap kicked out of them by the mindless element ?

[Berni]

[Ashberto]

Shawimb

[Berni]

[Monty91]

"Mecca?"

"No, she went of her own accord."

Just made that up, I did :cooper:

[Snin]

people only do it for meeja..both sides..ban all religion and all media..everyone happy ..WD Taliban imo had right basic ideas..ban tv etc :-)

[Rich]

British population in Kabul and we started attacking their population because we didn't like the oppression of women there?

It's their culture so they are welcome to keep it. But we have our culture so will not be told that we cannot do things because it offends people from other lands.

To be honest, I find their attitude towards us absolutely disgusting.

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

Pretty much as we didn't like their culture.

[Berni]

Although that would require everyone to know what the Haj is, I guess.

[Luis Anaconda]

[Classic Jorge]

I can't help it if you're all behaving exactly like the people you're all hopping up and down to decry

[Berni]

against the encroachment of a theocratic ideology. The Enlightenment doesn't just mean 'Being nice to everyone', you know?

[Monty91]

[Rich]

fact that al qaeda had terrorist training camps set up in the country and weren't too keen on the terrorists that were coming over here after being trained there.

I do take massive offense of their culture. However, if they practice it in their land I have no right to question it.

In the same way, they have no right to question our culture in our land.

[Berni]

However, what they may not do is impose their ideas on us.

[Classic Jorge]

Freedom of worship, freedom of expression, freedom of speech, freedom of association, that sort of thing.

[Classic Jorge]

It's almost as if you're guilty of employing double standards on this sort of thing.

[Ashberto]

changing, after all.

I expect redgunamo's explanation would be as accurate as any. (Good for business)

[Snin]

them as well..same with syria, libya..lots of places..when we dont like there culture we bomb them to the stoneage, put in embargos, starbe them then shoot them and finally give them an even worse more corrupt gov.. i think we get off pretty lightly with a few journo scribblers being shot tbh

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

Bentham - who was just as much a product of the Englightenment - quite rightly described the concept of natural human rights as 'nonsense on stilts'. What the enlightenment actually gave us was the careful and thoughtful protections of law based on reason rather than religion. The diametric opposite of what Islam preaches, in other words.

[Snin]

[Classic Jorge]

[Ashberto]

a territory which Mr Izetbegovic and allies (Iran, Saudi Arabia, USA, Britain etc) wanted to create as the first Islamic State in Europe ....

[Ashberto]

[Ashberto]

Come now. Stop being silly.

[Classic Jorge]

Point being, before we get all agitated about people attempting to impose their political ideas by the sword we should check our own conduct.

[Berni]

Our freedom of speech, freedom of worship, freedom of association, etc are all antithetical to Islam, just as it is antithetical to us.

You will certainly find nothing but loathing for Islam among the founders of the Enlightenment, from Jefferson and Adams to Voltaire. And with good reason.

[Ashberto]

society over a backward, superstitious and mediaeval one.

The fact that some off us no longer have the self-confidence to assert this is the open door at which the theocrats are pushing.

[Ashberto]

on spurious grounds I think I'm in a position to recognise a justifiably defensive robust position when the need arises.

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

Similarly with religious beliefs. Believe what you will, but if your beliefs start to impinge negatively on others, then they must be controlled. That is where Islam is.

[redgunamo]

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

society, then I'll be sure to subject them to similar scrutiny.

[Snin]

FACT

[Classic Jorge]

[Snin]

are endangering us all

[Berni]

[Snin]

no point in laughing as its true..simple fact

[Luis Anaconda]

[Berni]

So I can't be bothered. There's no point anyway. The whole 'delusional whackjob' thing means I might as well try and persuade the homeless bloke outside the local shop who keeps shouting that the Post Office keep opening his letters that he's being a bit silly.

[Berni]

[Luis Anaconda]

and itos tbf as well

[Ashberto]

Moaning about Jihadis blowing us up because our ways offend them is justifiable though. Which is what I am doing.

[Ashberto]

If someone says that 2+2=5 we shouldn't pretend that they might be right just to be nice to them.

In our way someone can pick which religion they want and practice it freely as long as it doesn't affect the freedom of others. In their way we either convert or die.

But maybe their way is ok?

[Ashberto]

[Ashberto]

Sometimes I suspect that you're not taking this debate seriously.

[Ashberto]

Islamic Terrorists Or State

[Snin]

no one near does it make a noise ? awimb is a little corner vacuum of bollacks I assumed ? I didnt realise people actually took this **** seriously ? NOW im scared tbh

[Ashberto]

:wave: