There was a chap on Sky news yesterday who said these cartoons are racist and offensive to all

[Pat Vegas]

Muslims.

Now this is an interesting view point.

As if the cartoons are making fun of fanatical types, We are usually told it has nothing to do with Islam.

Then on the tube this morning I saw a poster for a play called 'Bad Jews'

actually I can't be bothered anymore. the whole debate is just ridiculous. People should just say what they want.

[Berni]

But they don't give a f**k that their views offend me, so why should I give a f**k if someone offends them?

[Classic Jorge]

Though, dependent on just how seriously you take this sort of thing, so is the depiction of any living form.

[Berni]

[Supermac1976]

If not who do we report him to?

[Pat Vegas]

He is the token go to mouthpiece that the news must bring in anytime there something like this going on.

The other chap told him to shut up though :hehe:

[Classic Jorge]

what is it you find abhorrent about the muslamics, b?

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

society, for a start. Those views offend my western liberal sentiments.

And that's before we start getting into the minutiae of sharia law or the weirder and more savage offshoots of the faith. Views such as these deserve no respect in our society and yet we tiptoe around them. I think it's probably time we told them to stop believing in such ignorant, savage and barbaric nonsense, to stop spouting it publicly (which they do with virtual impunity) and stop teaching it to children.

[Berni]

race before anyone could be convicted or acquitted of accusations of racism, really.

[IUFG]

[Berni]

the concept of human rights, but tell anyone who'll listen just how little place there is for such a concept in their ideal society is one of the more poignant juxtapositions of our time.

[Classic Jorge]

Which isn't surprising as they take a fair bit of that into the mix, not to mention the surah and hadith (words and deeds of mohammed) which are surprisingly enlightened, sensible and liberal in places.

I've only read up a bit, certainly nowhere near as much as stuff like greek and hindu stuff, but it does seem that a lot of the cultural stuff about islam is more a societal interpretation of it.

[Berni]

Torah and the Bible are not all over the world slaughtering people and using those texts to justify it. Only the adherents of the Qu'ran are doing that.

As with most religious scholarship, you can pick and choose your verses. Some will make it sound reasonable and enlightened, while others will make it sound like the ravings of a violent schizophrenic. There are plenty of hadiths that say things that would curl your hair.

[Classic Jorge]

point being, I know a fair few muslims who are a great deal more liberal and tolerant than many of the views regularly expressed on here.

I also like how you've conveniently sidestepped the fact that a great deal of the devotees to the torah and the bible are doing their bit to maim, slaughter and oppress their fair share of infidels too.

[Berni]

What the bible says is irrelevant because there aren't several million people out there using it as justification for a worldwide crusade. There may be Christians and Jews fighting and killing, but there is no global military threat being posed in the name of the Bible or the Torah. There is in the name of the Qur'an.

And I can only tell you that you can either be an observant muslim or be tolerant and liberal - you can't be both. The dictates of the faith make that abso-f**king-lutely clear.

For the record, I also find many of the beliefs of Jews and Christians abhorrent, but since none of them is trying to kill me and mine, I'll let it go. The same cannot be said of muslims.

[Classic Jorge]

What do you think Israel is about?

And yes, you can be an observant muslim and be tolerant and liberal. In fact, Islam is a great deal more flexible on observance of all kinds than, for instance, catholicism.

I'm worried you appear to have become french this week though

[Berni]

And if you genuinely believe that the Israel question is about religion on anything other than the most amazingly simplistic reading, you're a lot less clued up on history and geopolitics than I'd have given you credit for.

[Classic Jorge]

I genuinely think a lot of the international support for israel is from the rightwing US nut jobs who believe that in order for the second coming to appear the jews have to be inhabiting the temple mount. It's not the whole issue, of course, but it helps massively.

[Snin]

[Snin]

and for people to twitter they will kill that feminsit over the money note ? but no they get arrested..it seems we are not so free at all ?..

[Berni]

they? You must admit that that is the case, surely?

And the religious thing is just a sideshow. The US supports Israel because it is both domestically and strategically vital for it to do so.

[Classic Jorge]

You know what struggle translates as, yeah?

[Berni]

adherence to some frankly revolting precepts.

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

It's true on one level, but covers a lot of other ****.

[Dr Headgear - Wannabe viking]

that don't believe the new testament is anything more than a useful morality story?

[Berni]