Sorry, but Lady Jenkin said that one of the reasons the poor are going hungry is that they can't

[Berni]

cook and instead spend their money on crappy, overpriced, processed food and ready meals.

Cue outrage.

But...ermmm...she's absolutely, 100% spot on, isn't she?

[Classic Jorge]

She's also on the committee that refused the new catering arrangements for the lords as it endangered their 260,000 champagne budget.

[Berni]

There are constant functions taking place in the House of Lords to encourage and support UK business and industry - I've been to several and so, I imagine, have you. Of course they need a f**king Champagne budget. Let's not be so childish.

[7evens]

cheaply these firms can prepare food at hideously low prices and with the minimum effort required.
On the odd occasion that I can't be arsed to cook and have nipped out for a microwave dinner, I've often thought how much it would cost to buy the raw components and do it myself.
On cost alone, it's a total no brainer :shrug:

[Classic Jorge]

And I'd probably also suggest that "the poor" are also going hungry as they're having benefits removed by JC staff, who are incidentally on bonuses to do so, wrongly in some cases.

The fact remains it's a monumentally silly and electorally unhelpful thing to say which only goes to reinforce the pretty valid impression people already have that the tories are happier seeing people starve than compromise on the quality of their sparkling grape beverages.

[Berni]

ingredients - mechanically-recovered meat, skin, fat, connective tissue etc - and using cheap additives (sugar, salt, flavour enhancers, thickening agents, rusk) to bulk the thing out and make it taste acceptable. In terms of health and nutrition, they're appalling value.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

A simple inability to do so or unable to cope with the costs of running certain utilities?

Any person can cook to a degree.

[7evens]

Take a look at these.. 89p for a variety of prepared meals ?

http://groceries.iceland.co.uk/frozen-meals-for-one

There's more issues here than just knowing how to cook.

[7evens]

the point about the poor not knowing how to cook.

I'd imagine that went down about as well as the porridge.

[Berni]

Very little of that is stew. It's mostly cheap carbohydrate.

[Berni]

cereals they cannot afford and which are bad for them

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

than actually pay attention to the fact that the woman was absolutely correct. Thus, it becomes impossible to improve anything because people are so keen to be clever and take cheap shots that saying anything true and useful becomes politically impossible. Sad.

[Snin]

until they can afford to feed , clothe and educate them, as we dont need more poor uneducated kids now we have eastern europeans to do our menial jobs for lower pay and much better standards.
unfortunately the poor know they pick up more benefits for having kids so have them then feed them cheap **** and spend the benefits of fags , booze and widescreen tv's and the kids just clog up our benefits and prisons..

[Brentwood]

It might not be the most exciting breakfast in the world, but still preferable to using a food bank

[Snin]

then do mid level work on the side or run a nice little home business so they can be home for the kids in the afternoon

[7evens]

to the percieved comfort of their social gatherings while sipping on champagne.
As an example. If the old bird put in a regular shift at St Botolphs and used her influence to help and communicate at the right level, she'd probably get a far better reception.

[Snin]

im hoping with interest it should be Champagne by NYE imo I'll pop back in and ask how my investment is going

[7evens]

I saw a piece this morning that construction firms are having to pay portuguese brickies a grand a week to fulfil construction contracts.

[Berni]

advice from people who know better than you do. What the poor 'warm to' is entirely irrelevant. Clearly they do not know best and should learn to do what they're told and maybe they wouldn't be so f**king poor.

I fail to see why good advice should only be heeded if accompanied by empty gestures. Besides, there'll always be some chippy c**t on hand to say why the person giving the advice is a hypocrite. This is the problem: people are so obsessed with pont scoring that nothing useful ever gets achieved. It's a recipe for inertia.

[Dorset Gooner]

[Snin]

Now :-

um monte de dinheiro

http://toomuchsandformytruck.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/portuguese-builder.jpg

then :-

Loads ah money

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Money/Pix/pictures/2008/11/11/loadsamoney460x276.jpg

[Rich]

that their opinion is worth as much as Lady Jenkin's opinion, though.

Had they been taught that some people know best then there wouldn't be any outrage and things might change for the better.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

[Berni]

[Snin]

or also good for flapjacks plus the poor could buy cheap beef mince, mix in some oats to bulk it, some fine diced onion, pepper n salt and an egg yolk and make there own nutritious tasty burgers imo

[Snin]

of the ****, spend more money on the **** and get fat on the ****

[Classic Jorge]

The very thought these people think their opinion carries anything like the same weight as this woman's is frankly ludicrous.

[Berni]

going to need about four of them to make your daily calorific requirement.

[Classic Jorge]

They seem happier kicking them than helping them. It is, after all, the british way.

[Snin]

so 4 of those followed by biscuits, chocolate, crisps, etc, full fat coke..poor but fat f**kers

[Berni]

That is not demonising anyone. Simply stating a fact that, if properly addressed, could make a big difference. Instead she's shouted down because of who she happens to be.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Must be a welsh thing.

You probably eat corned beef too. Dirty *******.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Weekends only as I am a man of leisure.

And when hungover midweek, obviously.

[Classic Jorge]

And her a PR consultant too. Bad PR from a bad PR lady.

She wasn't trying to help anyone, she was speaking at the release of a report into a parliamentary inquiry and was basically there to put the government's side after the kicking it'd received from Welbz the day before.

Unfortunately she seems to have scored a Frank Sinclair-esque own goal.

[Rich]

who she is probably makes it a bit hard to take for the poor. But if we ignored who she was and simply took her comments at face value, I think we could all agree that she is quite correct.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

unhealthy ****, or that they were able to prepare wholesome meals from scratch at the same, or lesser cost? Because that's the question.

You appear not to give a **** either way, as long as you can make glib remarks about someone's class. :shrug:

[Berni]

I'd honestly love you to tell me what was so crass about what she said.

Poor people don't know how to cook - She's right. They don't.
"We have lost our cooking skills," - She's right. We have.
"I had a large bowl of porridge today, which cost 4p. A large bowl of sugary cereals will cost you 25p." - Absolutely correct.

So whence comes all this faux outrage exactly?

[Berni]

Honestly, one does long for the days when the C of E was 'The Conservative Party At Prayer'. They all seem to be raging Trots these days.

[Classic Jorge]

[Rich]

is talking about.

Quite clearly - they're wrong. Fin.

[Classic Jorge]

fwiw I agree with her. Unfortunately the perception of it will be that some sort of champagne quaffing marie antoinette figure.

We need more of this if we're going to save the country from another five years of tory ineptitude.

[Classic Jorge]

And also, she brought up class and so did Rich, before I even mentioned it. Take him to task if you're so sensitive

[Berni]

gets done because everyone's too busy calling her posh and out of touch. Very principled.

The real truth is that nobody's allowed to blame the poor for their own poverty. Ever. Even when it's absolutely their own fault.

[Classic Jorge]

I mean, who better to speak on such matters.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Classic Jorge]

People filled in the blanks and she lost her job.

Though this one is a life peer and therefore can say what the f**k she wants cos she's old money, biotch!

[Classic Jorge]

Is it the life in PR or the life of rarified privilege that you think gives her the experience?

[Berni]

snobbish about people with St George's Flags and white vans? Hardly the same thing, is it?

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

What qualifies a historian to speak of the Roman Empire? Has he lived in it?

[Berni]

I thought it was basic maths, but obviously my opinion only counts if I matriculated from than the School of Hard Knocks.

[Classic Jorge]

At least down to a greater extent of interpretation than what Jenkin said.

Point being, it's solely down to the perception of what has been said rather than the content.

I don't see what she said here that's snobbish.



http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/79167000/jpg/_79167164_79166701.jpg

[Classic Jorge]

I mean, she's obviously some very sharp and able PR person and has in no way got where she has purely on the basis she's from a good family.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Ashberto]

[Berni]

Everyone knows exactly what she meant by that image - including Ed Miliband, which is why he forced her out for it. You are simply being disingenuous to pretend you don't understand the meaning.

[Classic Jorge]

What precisely has she done to qualify her views? I'm interested to know

[Classic Jorge]

Maybe it's the act of someone who thinks like that, maybe it's the act of someone who doesn't give a f**k as they know they can't be sacked, maybe she made a genuine mistake.

I don't know. I do know that it's played terribly though.

[Berni]

However, you are studiously avoiding the question of precisely why she needs to have been poor to make pronouncements on how to save money.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

or been briefed on, but I suspect that she has taken these perfectly valid steps to learning about the issue. She may just have spent 20 minutes perusing The Guardian; this would give her a deep understanding of how everyone except posh people is starving in the gutter, dressed in rags.

[Berni]

true? Are you not being snobbish by agreeing with it?

I'm confused, j. Albeit not - it would seem - as confused as you.

[Classic Jorge]

Is it?

I'm suggesting she needs to have at least some level of experience of the situation for her opinion to be taken seriously. If she had some academic experience, some vocational experience or some voluntary experience then her opinion would be taken a great deal more seriously.

Surely you can understand that, can't you?

[Berni]

acquainted herself with the subject at least a teensy bit. And she can do basic maths. So those are two qualifications.

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

The essential point is that she was perfectly correct. Was that luck, do you think? Or because she is indeed qualified to comment?

[Berni]

Trust to propose that unprotected gay sex and sharing needles during intravenous drug use might not be good plans if I want to avoid AIDS.

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

with the the electorate thinking they are heartless toffs.

I think you'll agree that it's a crucial difference.

[Berni]

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

Oh no, never, you'd never do such a thing

[Berni]

not in the way that Thornberry's tweet so clearly was. At worst, it was clumsily put. But snobbish? No.

How others choose to spin it, of course, is a different matter.

[Berni]

It's this obsession with surface and presentation rather than the point at hand that's the real problem here, I'm afraid.

Also, she's not a spokesperson for anything. She's just someone who sat on a committee, heard a lot of evidence and gave an opinion.

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

If he speaks the truth, he speaks the truth. His bizarre political leanings do not alter the truth.

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

the party line - much to Labour's chagrin at times.

I would bear in mind his political bias, of course, but I would not dismiss him simply because of who he is.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Gays are often wonderful cooks. Have you tried Jeremy Lee's smoked eel sandwich at Quo Vadis, for example. Darling, it's to die for.

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

Pure, ignorant bigotry, in other words?

No, it's not in that league, j. Not by a long chalk,

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Berni]

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

'I know you are but what am I?'


Such a compelling argument.

Valdimir Iliyich would be turning in his grave, if they'd only let the poor bugger have one.

http://ciml.250x.com/gallery/l/lenin_1921-07_beim_3_kongress_der_komintern.jpg

[Classic Jorge]

But you are both as bigoted as me, and what's more you bloody well know it.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

The chip on your shoulder is so painful, you are living in a state of barely suppressed rage, which you express by viciously abusing a whole strata of people of whom, as individuals, you know nothing.

My views of the poor are based on experience. I was one of them.

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

I despise no man for being poor, nor do I have any shame in coming from such an environment.

There are aspects of 'the poor', as a group, which I dislike. I am perfectly capable of ranting about the appalling behaviour of a group of uneducated louts I have encountered; (you would call this 'a night in the pub') because I find their behaviour offensive, not, per se, because of their poverty.

The poor tend to be loud, uncouth and often smell. They have the most distressing taste on clothes, houses and cars. I object to these failings, not their poverty.

[Classic Jorge]