Something very odd happened yesterday. Yasmin Alibhai Brown wrote an article I agreed with.

[Berni]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/rotherham-child- abuse-scandal-apologists-misogyny-and-double-standards-96924 97.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/rotherham-child-abuse-scandal-apologists-misogyny-and-double-standards-9692497.html)

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

I need a little lie down now.

[Berni]

However, in lefty circles, you're only allowed to state self-evident truths on issues such as this if you're the right (ie non-white) colour.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

When it happened in Belgium it brought the government down. Surely this should be the perfect opportunity to bury the leftist nonsense for a generation?

[Berni]

Equally, the sad truth is that these girls are simply seen as disposable by most of society even now, so there is no groundswell of public outrage because the victims were from a class with no voice and no ability to organise.

What is already happening is that the media and governmental institutions - led by the Beeb, of course - are paying brief lip service to the race issue and swiftly moving on to the institutional failures which, while outrageous, are merely symptomatic of the wider problems associated with the political culture. The local scapegoats will be made examples of in Rotherham, but nothing will fundamentally change.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

We should publicly flog Owen Jones for this.

[Berni]

about class, misogyny and the failings of public officials, but to suggest it's about race is to miss the real point. The whataboutism going on is disgusting. 'Most sex offenders are white.' So what? "What about the Catholic Church?" What about it? "What about Jimmy Savile et al?" What about them?

Anything to avoid the real, dirty issues at the heart of this: namely that the perpetrators were from a repellent culture that regards girls and women as second class and white girls as barely even human; that the race and religion of the perpetrators made it politically expedient to cover up their crimes; and that the race and class of the victims made it easy to cynically ignore their plight and even to threaten those who dared to raise their voices. And ultimately, that this culture is a direct result of a hyper-sensitivity to any racial issue that has made it impossible to state any uncomfortable truth about a minority ethnic group.

[Classic Jorge]

Saying it's a "perfect opportunity to bury the leftist nonsense" when it's clearly a failing of society is just crass imo.

The famously not at all "leftist" South Yorkshire police, the same people who were instrumental in strongarming through the miners strike and covering up the political meddling in the Hillsborough tragedy are just as complicit as the pisspoor local authorities in this.

[Berni]

from the left's promulgation of a pro-multicultural and - by default - anti-white agenda? The police know very well that any attempt to investigate a situation that runs on racial lines will see them accused of racism like a f**king shot. They know that that easy accusation sticks like **** to a blanket and can destroy a career. So they shy away from it. And girls carry on being raped.

The left needs to face up to its responsibility here. Until it does, every bit of hand-wringing is just crocodile tears.

[Classic Jorge]

...like they were in Rochdale.

The nub of the problem was, and very much still is, the refusal of the police to take these cases to the CPS

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

and should be exposed as such.

[Berni]

Left to themselves, these cases may well never have got anywhere near a court precisely because the police were scared that they were too politically sensitive and they were terrified of being accused of racism. Ann Cryer, the Labour MP for Rochdale, said exactly that about the Rochdale case.

So where do you think that terror of accusations of racism came from exactly?

[Berni]

impossibility of saying what needs to be said or doing what needs to be done. That was inevitable and needs to be addressed, but I fear it's too deeply rooted.

[Classic Jorge]

c'mon, b, this **** is beneath you, surely.

I'm sure race was a factor but I'll wager many people whose leanings are to the left, including me, would agree with you that it shouldn't have been.

It also completely ignores the whole idea that the police just didnt give a f**k, which is far more likely a pressing motivation.

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

teaching, academia, the media, etc, etc, etc. THAT F*CKING 'LEFT'.

And saying it shouldn't have happened isn't good enough, I'm afraid. Responsibilities need to be faced. Every c**t who's ever asked someone to 'check their privilege' or laughed at 'Muslamic Rayguns' needs to take a long, hard look in the f**king mirror and acknowledge their culpability in creating this disgusting mess.

[Classic Jorge]

And to think you mock owen jones and his mates for doing the exact same thing on the other side of the coin on a pretty much daily basis.

I've worked for the civil service and with local government and to say it's rammed with the red wedge is just ridiculous. Yes there's a touchy feely *******s culture around stuff like 'dievrsity' but to suggest they have the power to stop police doing their job is quite frankly *******s.

In short, it might be part of the problem but to say it's THE problem is madness.

[Berni]

that is to blame. It doesn't have to be active. Indeed, the passive acceptance of a culture wherein racism is the ultimate thought crime to be avoided at all costs is exactly the problem. Touchy-feely bull**** about 'diversity' (usually meaning the preference of cultural and ethnic difference over the cultural and ethnic norm) is just one manifestation of the whole thing. And because that culture is imposed across the board and even enshrined in law in places, yes it does and has prevented the police from doing their jobs. The police know that the accusation of racism against them is a dog whistle for the critical mass of institutional forces of the apparently soft left to be immediately arrayed against them and potentially destroy their careers. So they run scared of it.

Well this is where it's got us.

[Classic Jorge]

...and then make a mess of fabricating a flimsy case against him knowing they'll be backed up by the courts and exonerated on all counts. But they are, at the same time, too scared to bring against an organised gang of *****philes from what is essentially the same culture who have been vilified and called terrorists for the last decade?

Call me a doubting Thomas here but something doesn't quite add up.

Fwiw, I agree with a lot of what you say about this diversity crap being just that, and I've had first hand experience of being actively discriminated against because I was a white male, but it's madness to lay the whole blame at the feet of a tiny, tiny part of society like your Harpersons and the gang.

If the police are too scared to do their job, and that's a pretty big if, then we need to ask questions about their lack of balls in this specific case, not let them off scott free and blame an amorphous mass fabricated largely by right wing tabloid hysteria.

[Berni]

political pressures applying to it. Completely different racial and cultural question, completely different city, completely different police force. Not relevant at all. Oh, and you're bringing your bias to the questions related to that case, but that's not really relevant either.

And yes, we do need to address this issue of why they're too scared to act. That's exactly what I'm suggesting. But it needs to be addressed in terms of why that fear exists in the first place. And that question takes some real courage to answer.

The left is not dreamed up by tabloids, j. It pervades everything in this country. Remember, the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing us he didn't exist.

[Ashberto]

[Classic Jorge]

...single parallel, no matter how valid?

The crucial difference is that you want to look into why they were too scared to act, assuming they were both too scared to act and prejudging the sole reason to be a massive leftist conspiracy.

I would rather not prejudge everything here, take into consideration the reasons why the police and the local authority were, at best, negligent and repeatedly so for over a decade.

I imagine just as bigger reason is that the police, and probably to a lesser extent the LAs, thought these people weren't worth helping, by and large, and that it was a can of worms they'd rather not touch as it wasn't 'real people' being affected. More likely the Untermenschen people, largely on the right, are more than happy to write off and at best demonise.

Along with the diversity nuts and the privilege checkers there's also a massive, massive responsibility from the people who see people in far-flung provincial towns from a **** home as some sort of Dalit underclass beyond contempt.

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

Oh, and it's not a conspiracy. It's worse than that. It's a lazy consensus.

You want to find any reason to explain these things other than race and its attendant complications.

Occam's Razor, old chap. Useful thing.

[Classic Jorge]

And yes, I agree that Occam's Razor is a perfectly valid argument but I'm also saying it's more likely than an elaborate leftist conspiracy that the police just view these people as beneath contempt and that's probably the biggest factor here.

In short, we both have simplistic arguments based on prejudices we hold, it's just I would like it to be dealt with in a more wide ranging way as that's surely the best way to get to the heart of the problem and subsequently deal with it.

Looking at the people in power I admit that your favoured route is infinitely more likely to be the one they go with, it's just that it's also infinitely less likely to deal with the problem for the reasons outlined in the posts above.

[Ashberto]

that bears no resemblance to what the left originally stood for.

Once the working class was finished as a political force in the 80s, much of what remained of the left rallied around things like multiculturalism, which is a profoundly un-socialist concept because it divides rather than unites people. What it does offer, though, is a sense of authority for those who task themselves to enforce it, which is why it has infused the whole establishment.

This may or may not be what Jorge has been trying to say, but I think it's what he ought to be saying to distance himself from the people who have brought us to this point.

How can a policeman say that a 12 year old being gang-raped was consenting, and arrest her for being drunk? Did I even read that? Did the newspaper make it up? I find it all too horrifying to contemplate, but just blaming it all on the left seems a bit too easy imo.

[Ashberto]

[Classic Jorge]

Look at Gove's Trojan Horse affair, and the chapter in his Farenheit 7/7 book, or May's stance on deportation for instance. Not to mention the recent limitations on Visas from countries like Pakistan and Bangladesh.

I think the press stuff goes more or less without the need for any examples.

[Classic Jorge]

And it really, really would have no bearing on the negligence of a police officer as they arent the most delicate or PC - if you forgive the pun - of flowers anyway.

[Luis Anaconda]

is seriously undermined when spout utter ****e like that

[Classic Jorge]

If the powers that be were really cowering in their ivory towers too scared to say boo to a brown goose then that case would have gone very differently imo.

[Ashberto]

Quite an important distinction, I think.

[Classic Jorge]

I do think there's a certain element of people who think, or more accurately assume that, all islamic people are islamists though.


*alright, it might've been but I'll put that down to rhetoric :-)

[Ashberto]

Just as easy to say that if these were middle-class kids being abused the police would never have let it happen, therefore this is all about anti-working-class attitudes in the police, and the establishment generally.

Hence, those who constantly denounce working-class people as scum on the internet might need a long, hard look in the mirror too.

[Classic Jorge]

it's now 'the simplest point is always the easiest to argue in favour of on the internet'

[Berni]

[Classic Jorge]

http://www.awimb.com/fudforum/index.php?t=tree&goto=3546 062&rid=293&S=37861d81e7e6427c1d0ddebfaa4f4a84 (http://www.awimb.com/fudforum/index.php?t=tree&goto=3546062&rid=293&S=37861d81e7e6427c1d0ddebfaa4f4a84)

:hehe: