I see the UK establishment press have coordinated hit pieces on UKIP

[Chief Arrowhead]

Farage has them running scared, doesn't he. I see they are freely pulling out the racist card. Sounds familiar as that is the tactic here as well if "progressives" are losing the debate.

[Classic Jorge]

Secondly, literally all of UKIP's policies are predicated on xenophobia.

Have you seen any of their policies and how poorly they fact check? They make the tea party fruit loops look sane in comparison.

[Berni]

ultimately meaningless nonsense and dresses like the owner of a second-hand car dealership.

I have many issues with Europe and its role in our lives, but UKIP's only possible role in dealing with those issues is as a catalyst to force others into action. Per se, they are a joke.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

They are addressing concerns that some sections of the population have. The mainstream parties would probably do better to address those concerns rather than demonise the grumpy old men of UKIP.

[Alexism - Atheoist]

and now the data are in and only the top 1/1th of 1% have seen significant gains of income, and boy have they!

We said deregulation was penny wise pound foolish and would cost us more in the end...Enron, Arthur Anderson, S&Ls, and the mother of all financial collapses later we are proved correct there as well - and this isn't to mention the lax regulations leading up to the BP spill.

We said not investing in the future (education, infrastructure, new energy) was foolish. Now our energy efficiency is 60% whereas Germany and Japan are in excess of 90%. Our children are woefully under-prepared for global competition.

We said "free trade" would simply ship jobs offshore and then degrade salaries back here. Destroying unions would also shift wealth from middle class to the owners.

Progressives said equall rights for all - women, gays, minorities...history is proving us right there too.

I am very curious...what have the conservatives been right about Chief? Anything at all? Freedom! Yeah. And ummm Loving America DAMNIT! yeah...anything else?

[Ashberto]

in the market for a party that says something different.

[Rich]

[Classic Jorge]

They demoed in Bradford this weekend, handing bibles out at mosques, inexplicably "invading" the labour party headquarters and - when the mayor wasnt there - they went round his house and forced their way in terrifying his kids and family.

Also, it's probably also worth pointing out that as an anti-establishment figure a former stockbroker from Surrey who has been a member of the European Parliament for the last fifteen years is a very strange choice.

[Ashberto]

avoids the issues and shuts down what should be a genuine political debate.

Europe: Do you really think that everyone with issues with the EU autocracy is xenophobic, given that there are important matters around democracy and accountability at stake?

Eco: Is it xenophobic to be sceptical about Eco-zealots?

Immigration: Can there be no debate about manageable levels of population movenment, in the light of a housing crisis and economic turmoil, without because accused of simply hating furriners?

War: Is it really xenophobic to wish to reverse the bellicose militarism of all the main parties? Quite the reverse, I'd say.

[Chief Arrowhead]

What I hear him saying is that the path now chosen will result in the EU bureaucracy determining the direction of immigration policies for the UK and that is not in your best interest. People from poor EU countries will take UK jobs, are taking them at present. This burdens your welfare system. He is saying that you must break from the EU to regain control of your borders.
Xenophobic I'd just a fancy term for racist. How about debating the issue? Why is present EU policy a good thing?

[Alexism - Atheoist]

[Supermac1976]

http://www.anorak.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/farage-****.jpg

[Chief Arrowhead]

Name calling is a sure way to know you are losing.

[Classic Jorge]

I dont think everyone with issues about europe is a xenophobe, I think they are though. I dont think everyone sceptical about enviromentalism is either, I do think they are funded by some pretty large haulage companies as well as some people with quite a lot of petrochemical investments though.

Quite a lot of their immigration scaremongering has proved to be just that, and I also think you know I'm in favour of free movement, we also get a lot more out of it than we are disadvantaged.

Lastly, I'm not sure UKIP are anti-war, they want to review trident with a view to doing exactly the same thing but with a british company. So basically ****ty and xenophobic. Though they do seem to have changed nearly all of their non xenophobia based policies after the 2010 election. They seem to be wanting to up defence spending to pre-2010 levels.

[Chief Arrowhead]

[Classic Jorge]

Freedom of citizenship (ha! we're subjects) inside the EU is a good thing, it makes us more cosmopolitan and internationalist as a country (look at marve, fash and billy, for instance) which increases opportunity. Also, it's fantastic for business as they have a massive, and massively more flexible, labour market.

[Mo Britain less Europe]

[Ashberto]

[Classic Jorge]

[Rich]

[Ashberto]

and supporters, but by themselves, policies around Euro-specticism, Eco-specticism and even reducing immigration are not necessarily xenophobic.

I've always been in favour of free movement of labour but I think there should be more of a debate about immigration than is allowed among the main parties.

[Classic Jorge]

We dont need a nuclear deterrent, nobody has invaded us since 1688 and even then we asked them to.

In fact the last country to invade british sovereign territory was the ones we're supposed to have a special relationship with.

[Classic Jorge]

I've never even called you a xenophobe

[Ashberto]

We don't want your furrin politics in our thread :shout:

[Alexism - Atheoist]

Doing y'all a favor.

You're welcome.

[Ashberto]

[Classic Jorge]

[Ashberto]

[Classic Jorge]

I'd imagine, if it wasnt such a no-no to be seen as downright racist, then they would also be that.

[Classic Jorge]

...than a rapidly failing superpower.

Most of UKIP's policies are lifted straight from the tea party mentalists anyway.

[Classic Jorge]

And, as a massive, wonk eyed racist he should know

[Supermac1976]

by not turning up.
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/where-have-ukips -absent-meps-really-been-8160595.html (http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/where-have-ukips-absent-meps-really-been-8160595.html)
:rolleyes:

[Mo Britain less Europe]

[Supermac1976]

Or so I've been told. :hide:

[Chief Arrowhead]

"I am very curious...what have the conservatives been right about Chief? Anything at all? Freedom! Yeah. And ummm Loving America DAMNIT! yeah...anything else?"

At least I have cowed you into not calling me a racist. But nobody can ignore the implication that I must be myopic and just plain stupid to have my opinion. Everyone knows that blaming America for the ills of the world is the nuanced view, the educated view. One must, in fact, willingly impugn the united States to present oneself as educated. therefore, heve an opinion of the United States as the hope for freedom in the world, being stupendously grateful for the concept of American Exceptionalism ... that by corollary makes you uneducated and stupid.

So you unwittingly provided exactly the sort of intimidating rhetoric that Progressives use all the time in a quest to stifle debate.

[Ashberto]

but now it looks like you are saying that it is racism after all.

[Bergkamp's Brain]

unfortunately (for him) his operation is based around one policy and it is attracting far too many extremists.

[Classic Jorge]

[Alexism - Atheoist]

1.) You said conservatives were winning the debate forcing libs to resort to bullying and name calling...I respond with a factual list of fundamental issues and point out how liberals arguments seem to have been borne out by reality.

And of course you don't address the facts. As usual.

You play the victim card! Poor conservatives, always so bullied. Boo frggin hoo. You said I supported Al Qaeda because I said Iraq was a stupid war. (Remember that? Another thing liberals were proved right about.)

2) Name 1 single instance where I impugn the United States. Another cowardly dodge to avoid the fact that what I am impugning is your ideology. Don't hide behind Uncle Sam. Address the facts I put forward. Answer the question I have posed to you many times - what has conservativism been right about?

3) Name one time I called you a racist or a homophobe. While there ae very strong elements of both in the Republican Party, I don't paint with a broad brush and since you never saw you as either I never called you as either. So no, you've never cowed me - in fact, you made me resolve to not let your lame political posts go unanswered (much to the joy of the rest of the board.)

4) "So you unwittingly provided exactly the sort of intimidating rhetoric that Progressives use all the time..."
If you're intimidated by facts, then it's probably a sign your brain is trying to tell you you're in the wrong here. There's no shame in saying, "Well, Conservativism sure didn't turn out as promised, time to change my opinion." Just sayin like.

Here's a smiley face so you won't be so intimidated. :-)

[Classic Jorge]

I read a fair bit of the telegraph, until I get kicked off for going over my paywall limit, and they are forever praising your boys.

I love your culture, high and low, and have many american friends but your government are proper *******s - or at least ruthlessly act in their own self interest only governed by a suspect set of very loose morals.

They arent as bad as our lot, mind. Just a hell of a lot more powerful.