PDA

View Full Version : Different Take On Jarvis Not Going Down



zimgunner
04-16-2014, 01:06 PM
My American friends' chief gripe with soccer is that there is too much diving. And I agree with them that it is a major problem. But the fault lies not only with the players but with the officials.

Players are guilty if contact is non-existent, manufactured, or dramatized. But yesterday Sagna was clearly late and clipped Jarvis after he had got to the ball. Refs will never call an incident like that unless the aggrieved player goes to ground -- although nothing in the rules says that a foul must include falling over.

Jarvis did not hit the turf -- and I guess he deserves some credit for that. (Although we don't know how much of his decision was based on fairness and how much on believing that he could easily run down the ball and ping a cross into the box, which was Fat Sam's game plan, if it deserves that term.)

But can we blame players for going down in such situations? I think not. The current regime amounts to a tax on players who attempt to stay up and continue the play, and why should players voluntarily shoulder that tax?

I think what football needs is a modification of the advantage rule. In other sports, like rugby, advantage can continue well after the incident in question and the ref will call back play sometimes a full minute later.

In football, advantage disappears within seconds. If the advantage period were a little longer, players would have more incentive NOT to hit the deck as soon as they felt contact, and the game would be better for it.

Ashberto
04-16-2014, 01:39 PM
Thankyou for your thoughts.

zimgunner
04-16-2014, 01:41 PM
You are a scholar and gentleman and there aren't many of us left.

redgunamo
04-16-2014, 01:52 PM
It's not like rugby where there's a big difference between a penalty and a converted try, for attacking team and defending team alike.

Last night, in either scenario, the best West Ham could've got was a goal.

zimgunner
04-16-2014, 02:25 PM
What I meant was that if the player who feels contact goes down, his team has a 80-90% chance of scoring (that's the average penalty conversion rate). So unless he feels that he has an even better chance of scoring after staying up (which is unlikely and wasn't true last night), he will go down.

That's the skewed incentive. It would be unskewed somewhat if advantage was extended because then the player could carry on and attempt to score in the knowledge that the ref could always bring it back and award the penalty if he did not score.

Extended advantage eliminates the downside for the attacking player in the box considering whether to go down.

gco40203
04-16-2014, 03:58 PM
You are right but the problem is that we and the players don't know if a penalty is due to be given so they have to make a choice ie go down and hope yes or carry on and try to get to the ball. In yesterday's scenario I can see no advantage to Jarvis for staying on his feet. At best he could get to the ball, make a cross and maybe something good comes from it but if he goes down and he gets a penalty then very high chance of a goal.

Absolute credit to the guy in these days of diving but actually by being honest he highly likely done himself out of a penalty. And this is why players dive because refs are not tough enough. Its like all that pulling and shoving in the box at corners. If that happens in open play it almost always is given as a foul but refs bottle it when it is in the box. Give them as penalties everytime and then players would soon stop that nonsense.

David Pleat AHADF (Royal Welsher and monkey lover)
04-16-2014, 04:01 PM
As there was no advantage.