well said ray parlour

[gco40203]

"I know the Champions League is important and great for the club financially but you don't want to be a professional footballer to make money for your club," he said. "The whole objective is to win.

"If at the end of your career all you've got is coming fourth eight years running - what is that?"

[Dorset Gooner]

[Rich]

His opinion is of literally zero relevance.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

is well qualified to talk about, what with him having had a successful career as a footballer......

[Monty91]

is because by doing so it will give us the best chance of growing as a club and WINNING the big trophies.

Mazeltov. You share the same intelligence levels as Raymond Parlour.

[Luis Anaconda]

than you did captaining your school team, r. He is also a lovely man as I found out when I played cricket against him

[Billy Goat Sverige]

*Might not, probably will.

[Monty91]

is more important than winning things.

[Rich]

consequences of not finishing in the top four would be.

He is speaking from a player's point of view. Not an Arsenal fan's point of view.

Anyway, it doesn't come down to choosing one or the other, thankfully.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

[Monty91]

Not least by possibly keeping hold of that Suarez fella.

[Supermac1976]

[Monty91]

[Luis Anaconda]

agreed that he is more qualified to talk from a player's point of view which is exactly what he was doing. So calling him a thick c**t for doing so is a bit silly. Rather good fielder he was, didn't know which end of the bat to hold

[Nicosia Gooner]

about your achievements

Based on what Parlour has achieved in his life so far and listening to him on TV / Radio I would say thick he ain't

However, reading your rubbish here says a lot about you

[Peter]

You might care about the growth of the club. Why should the players?

I have tried to explain this to you for a while. Maybe our players want to win a cup even if you dont. Sagna, for example- why would he give a **** if we grow as a club? And for the others, if we dont grow they can leave.

[Rich]

could potentially seriously undermine us next season. Not to mention that we won't pay as high a wages because we are not a risk taking club so will become less desirable for top players.

This, coupled together with the huge cash injection Liverpool will get for their top 4 finish and the return of United, could well see us as the new Liverpool/Everton.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

haven't won anything. In that situation i'd say they'd prefer the trophy and tasting success.

[Peter]

Doesnt make them less important and i would imagine parlour knows more about whst motivates footballers than a stupid little c**t like you.

No offence of course.

[Luis Anaconda]

a comp which teams don't take seriously and choose to play their second choice keeper in it

[Rich]

I think that is rather misleading.

The players may well want that. But the fans should not, and for good reason.

[Peter]

For the title even more disappointing.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

[Monty91]

some would rather win the fa cup and others would rather finish top four. So we are dealing with a grey area here.

What I object to is this straw man dichotomy that says the people who would prefer us to finish top four put finances over winning things.

[Peter]

Also, possibly, you dont get to tell fans what they should or shouldn't hope for.

[Monty91]

That was a decision based on form, not sentiment,.

[Luis Anaconda]

I know you mean shouldn't in place of fourth ;-)

[Classic Jorge]

If for nothing else than their career prospects/earning potential.

I'd say the hierarchy of success for the majority of players would be:

Win CL
Win the league
Play in CL
Win the FA Cup
Win the League Cup
Play in the premier league

[Luis Anaconda]

More players would rather win the world cup than the Champions League therefore from a players' perspective international football is better than club football

[Monty91]

[Peter]

Ten years of qualification hasn't helped us grow as a club or win anything. All we see is the money rolling in. Admittedly, thst is because of pur unique situation but still, it remains the fact.

I am sure the players are torn between the two. Top four means bigger wages for them and a greater spotlight in the biggest competition. But i am sure they want a medal or two as well.

For the record, if i had to choose now, i would take top four over the cup.

[Luis Anaconda]

Diego Lopez League appearances 2013/14 32 Champions League Appearances 0

[Peter]

Oh well, nothing to see here

[Classic Jorge]

Mostly because of the wildly differing status of countries. Playing for Burkina Faso at the world cup could possibly mean more than actually winning it playing for germany.

[Peter]

Only the manager knows :-)

[Classic Jorge]

And pretty much enabled us to be where we are today

[Maravilloso Marvo]

[Peter]

How have we grown as a footballing power over the last ten years? Without mentioning money.

[Classic Jorge]

Obviously this differs from player to player, some will want to win things, some will be more bothered about earning money, others both.

[Peter]

I think we can assume the owners want the money. The managers and players would be torn to some extent i would think. Moyes has never won anything.

[Billy Goat Sverige]

contract and wanting to win things was he ignoring how important playing in the Champions League is?

[Classic Jorge]

I could be wrong here but it does sound like you're alluding towards your only metric being trophies.

[Monty91]

Given your lack of judgement there, how can you be certain we don't make a couple of others signings of that level that can allow us to really compete?

[redgunamo]

Shocking seens, LA.

[Maravilloso Marvo]

from player to player as well

[Peter]

Good god, its almost unthinkable :hehe:

[Classic Jorge]

[Monty91]

[Maravilloso Marvo]

[Classic Jorge]

[Monty91]

[Peter]

So you can hardly drop dead with shock if fans and outsiders view it as simply a money making exercise. I am not saying they are right, just that the obvious pointers seem to go thst way.

Of course it makes money. The problem is that we havent been using that extra income to improve the team. We have used it to strengthen our financial position. So it has been primsrily about money. Nothing wrong with that and we all know we needed the money in the short term.

[Classic Jorge]

The copa del rey is certainly not as important as the FA cup is supposed to be to us. It's probably closer to the importance of the league cup.

More to the point, we need to knock the whole two cups thing on the head.

[Maravilloso Marvo]

Why is that exempt and only able to be classified as "it will vary from player to player"?

[redgunamo]

the other year, were they.

This years final promises to be a tasty affair too.

[Peter]

How has ten years of cl income improved us as a team? It hasnt. And if thst srgument is put to fans you can see why they reject it.

That's the point. If the point of growing the club off the pitch is to improve the team on it, it hasnt worked.

If it isnt that, surely it is just sbout money? Whst else is there off the pitch?

[redgunamo]

[Classic Jorge]

It's a mix of financial/competitive and individual/team.

It was a quick riff on maslow's hierarchy of needs, if you're familiar with that then the footballing concept shouldnt be that much of a struggle.

[Classic Jorge]

Nobody was that excited about Valencia/Getafe a few years back

[Classic Jorge]

Obviously a fair part of that's to do with income generation.

fwiw I think the team has basically been sacrificed, probably to the tune of £30m a year on balance, over the last decade.

[Monty91]

Had Abramovich and the Sheik not turned up, do you agree we may very well have won a bunch of league titles in the last 9 years?

When you are facing such wealth, the very best you could possibly hope for is a plateau, which we have achieved.

[redgunamo]

[Ashberto]

It's odd how some people are too thick to understand this.

[Curly]

He is as much responsible for losing games as everyone else.

[Classic Jorge]

[Ashberto]

[redgunamo]

not certainly."

You cannot have it both ways.

[Monty91]

so why are you saying "we havent been using that extra income to improve the team"...?

[Peter]

I suspect that has hurt us more than their success on the pitch. Then again we have also benefited from it financially, getting huge fees from them for some of our players.

I think it is unlikely, particularly as united have comfortsbly out performed us each year until now. Our place in the top four would have been considersbly easier which may have made chasing the other competitions easier.

I think the background here might be thst many of us accepted thst cl qualificstion was essentisl to the club in the dark days, purely for the income. If those dark days have come to an end, and it appears st least the worst is behind us, then maybe i am not going to care about it so much. I still want it, desperately, but i am less likely to see failure to wualify as an utter disaster.

The bigger issue by far at the moment is wenger. If he leaves then we have far more to worry sbout than cl qualification.

[Curly]

Copa del Rey Mastermind followed by Copa del Rey It's A Knockout,live from the teams hotel covering their afternoon siesta

[Classic Jorge]

[barrybueno]

[redgunamo]

The trophy is "big" because the clubs contesting it are big. As many feel it should be with us also. Not least our manager, when it suits Him.

[Peter]

We used the income to strengthen our financial position.

Sorry...what dont you understand?

[Monty91]

[Classic Jorge]

[Ashberto]

He also knows a lot more about what footballers want than you do.

[Peter]

Had it now been the case, perhaps the fans would have seen the impact of cl qualification on the team and on our signings. Perhaps then they would appreciate the significance more.

The trouble is that although monty is right, and cl qualification should do all these thnigs, it hasnt worked for us because of our unique situstion. Maybe from now on it will work. Pity we are going to finish fifth :hehe:

[Peter]

Of course, being picky, for the last few years it was as much a choice as anything. There was the potentisl to hit the sugar daddy button had they wanted to. They chose ot to.

Thank f**k in my opinion, but a choice nonetheless.

[redgunamo]

once in a while.

What do you mean? Real and Barca have contested dozens of CdR finals. Is that because they feel it doesn't matter? Their fans don't care? Because it prevents them winning the European Cup or their league?

What?

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Wee Spanish c**t*.

*unless he gets one tomorrow

[Classic Jorge]

Pretty much the same throughout yerp, I think we're very much the anomoly here.

[redgunamo]

[Peter]

Particularly the romance.

[Monty91]

[Classic Jorge]

[redgunamo]

But we must understand that these clubs that apparently don't give a toss for their "cup" have all won it more times than we have.

[redgunamo]

More than us, at any rate.

[Peter]

Spurs aren't in it :-)

From now on, it might actuslly help us compete to win stuff.

But i want to win the fa cup as well. Just once. I wouldnt want to keep winning it, that would suck.

I honestly think it would give the players a big lift for next year. They might stop seeing themselves as losers.

[redgunamo]

Think on.

The financial doping lament would make some sense then.

[Monty91]

beeeelief that they are not losers is being top of the league for a large chunk of the season.

Irrespective of this, I too would love us to win it.

[Monty91]

[Peter]

Dont you want our players to be happy? :-)

You know we only just avoided whst would have been a fascinsting scenario. Had they not changed the rules that year we would have gone into the last two weeks of the season in 2006 with a choice- win the champions league or qualify for it next year?

Had it come down to prioritising the wigan or barca game, which do you think the club would have preferred to lose? Would you rather win the champions league or qualify for it mext year? Qualifying makes more money.....

Now dont tell me that wenger isnt desperate to win it. I think even he might have put personal objectives over those of the club.

[Monty91]

[Peter]

And the trophy actuslly makes the fa cup look quite pretty.

[redgunamo]

[redgunamo]

the league are exactly the same ones everyone gave us at the beginning of the season. In fact, exactly the same ones everyone gave these players before they even joined us.

Everyone, even footballers, knows when the decisive part of the season arrives, irrespective of your views about it when you happen to be top at Christmas.