I've no axe to grind either way, but it seems to me that the West is behaving rather irresponsibly

[Berni]

about Ukraine. We are, in effect, poking the Russian bear with a big stick and daring him to do something about it, knowing that the stakes could be as high as a full-scale civil war with the potential to draw in other nations. After all, if Russian tanks do roll into Ukraine, there's sweet f*ck all the EU or America is able or prepared to do about it beyond posture and use it to demonise Putin.

All seems a rather high-risk strategy just to aggrandise the EU and weaken Putin imo.

But then what do I know? :shrug:

[Classic Jorge]

....at least.

It'll be interesting to see what Pootypoot does now that the snowlympics are over though. It's just as well he's known for his thoughtful, considered and proportionate resp....oh.

[Berni]

way - make no mistake about that. But it wouldn't be pushing so hard if it didn't know the Yanqui were fully prepared to back them (rhetorically, at least). Hard to know what the endgame is here.

[Classic Jorge]

I can honestly see it fracturing right the way down the Dnipr.

Nice to see that the eastern europeans finally have a use for all of their grain alcohol though.

http://rt.com/files/news/21/f4/c0/00/protest-9.jpg

[Curly]

[Berni]

influence that I'm not sure Putin can afford to stand for while retaining his 'strong man' reputation. His whole schtick relies on a 'Greater Russia' quasi-imperialist network of client republics, so he's going to be unlikely to let anything go if he can help it.

[redgunamo]

We wish to remain in the cycle of the procedural; keep things moving. And more importantly, keep things where they are with our own power establishment.

Perpetual Diplomacy (or Perpetual War, as it used to be known) and a' that; when the Ukes stop shooting each other, we simply follow the circus somewhere else.

[Snin]

Russian provinces in the east and south that the Soviet leadership merged into Ukraine in order to dilute the fascist elements in western Ukraine that fought for Adolf Hitler against the Soviet Union. It is these ultra-nationalist elements with nazi roots, not Washington’s chosen puppets, who are now in charge of the armed rebellion in Western Ukraine.
Overthrowing the Ukrainian government means that the eastern and southern parts of Ukraine will rejoin Russia. The western part will be looted by Western bankers and corporations, and the NATO Ukraine bases will be targeted by Russian Iskander missiles or hopefully and what would be best would be if Russia just steamed in this week and took the whole place back and executed all these freedom loving facists.

[Berni]

and a consequent power vacuum is a good thing longer term. As for NATO membership, could NATO actually guarantee the security and independence of such a state? How far can NATO expand before it becomes meaningless?

[Ashberto]

I gather she says so in this clip, though I can't view it atm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=861DJLR4Cek

[Berni]

Brief acquaintance with what Stalin did to Ukraine in the 30s should give you a pretty clear idea of why Ukrainians would have fought with the devil himself to oppose Stalin. If you're not convinced, might I recommend this book?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bloodlands-Europe-between-Hitler-Sta lin/dp/0099551799 (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bloodlands-Europe-between-Hitler-Stalin/dp/0099551799)

[Curly]

Except offering bribes.... I mean... financial incentives?

[Classic Jorge]

Also, it's russia, it'll get very, very bloody

[Berni]

[Curly]

[Berni]

little but stand back, wagging their fingers and wringing their hands (if you can do both of those things simultaneously).

Like I say, that seems remarkably irresponsible.

[Ashberto]

pan-European love-fest. They are actual proper fascists. The liberally democratery types seem to have been pushed aside.

[Classic Jorge]

[Luis Anaconda]

only solution to everything is to just divide countries

or as Sir Humphrey put it

"It was a good idea to partition countries like India and Cyprus and Palestine and Ireland as a part of their independence. It keeps them busy fighting each other so we don't' have to have a policy about them."

[Mack]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/scaremonger ing-about-ukrainian-immigrants-to-begin-on-wednesday-2014022 483935 (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/scaremongering-about-ukrainian-immigrants-to-begin-on-wednesday-2014022483935)

[Berni]

are our fascists. :shrug:

Besides, Putin's puppets weren't exactly a knitting circle, so what difference does it make?

[Brentwood]

will start throwing petrol bombs and ****?

[redgunamo]

[Curly]

[Berni]

[Ashberto]

[Ashberto]

Apparently that's all that matress.

[Curly]

[redgunamo]

[redgunamo]

[Classic Jorge]

[redgunamo]

[Classic Jorge]