This film is all over my facebook feed, it's about what it's like being a woman

[Classic Jorge]

http://www.upworthy.com/a-french-film-showing-men-what-being -a-woman-feels-like-kinda?g=2&c=mrp1 (http://www.upworthy.com/a-french-film-showing-men-what-being-a-woman-feels-like-kinda?g=2&c=mrp1)

Of course, men are literally all patriarchal arseholes and women entirely innocent earth mother types.

Warning, contains boobies so probably nsfw but I reckon you could get away with it on the basis that it's pro-feminism.

[Mc Gooner]

[redgunamo]

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

To be honest, we are patriarchal arseholes. Even those of us who affect not to be.

[Classic Jorge]

I dont think we're all patriarchal arseholes, arseholes maybe but that includes women too.

Also, women make plenty of hay from being a woman, and why shouldn't they? As long as they don't all prattle on about feminism whilst taking advantage of it then fine.

It is funny that the person sharing this is rather beautiful, takes utter advantage of the fact but still stridently speaks out about this sort of thing all....the.....f**king.....time.

[Berni]

Women are disadvantaged and disenfranchised at almost every step. It bothers me.

[Monty91]

[Classic Jorge]

The real problem is power, you can apply all of the positive discrimination sticking plasters you want but they wont make any difference and, if anything, just divide the disenfranchised people who don't qualify for the special status.

In that sense it's the perfect thing for those in power to do, they can look like they are all right on at the same time as shattering any solidarity amongst those threatening them.

[Berni]

[redgunamo]

[Classic Jorge]

maybe we need some sort of asterisk system when we actually want to make a real point.

[Berni]

The real issue is that men and women have not evolved since their roles were defined completely by nature red in tooth and claw.

Men's attitudes are still predicated on a prehistoric paradigm and - rather than evolving over the years to reflect greater sophistication in human society - have in many instances hardened to create societal structures that by their nature oppress women. Marriage being just one pernicious instance.

[Monty91]

.

[Monty91]

"superior" to a person without those same advantages?

[redgunamo]

[Berni]

common with them and be more inclined to get on with them than with someone without those advantages, but that is merely subjective circumstance, it does not validate my preferences or prejudices.

[Classic Jorge]

I reckon it'd everyone's, personally. Not just men, who seem to be the target of this sort of thing.

The thing is, you'd have to question how effective feminism is at making this sort of shift, especially when it seems to spend most of the time chastising men rather than talking to them on a level and pointing out it could be a good thing for their mothers/sisters/daughters.

The feminist movement seems to do an excellent job of hardening men's attitudes towards women whilst calling for the exact opposite. It's a folly to expect that you don't need 50% of the world's population - and the 50% that apparently holds the majority of power, for good or ill - to succeed in what you're doing.

[Classic Jorge]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

We are all one. Men and women, blacks and whites, gays and straights.

The only reason to perpetuate these divisions is in an attempt to divide and conquer. Do you wish to divide and conquer?

[Dr Headgear - Wannabe viking]

You can trace the roots of patriarchy back to the stone age, but you can also do the same for most of the fundamental power imbalances that Jorge is addressing. The strong took the largest share of the spoils then, they do the same now. If you think it's possible to be feminist - to redress that imbalance - then surely it's also possible redress other imbalances?

For the record, that we have any form of cooperation, sharing, society etc. also comes from our prehistoric evolution.

[Berni]

and actions that do the damage with the intention of mending our ways. Without having those issues pointed out (let's be honest), we would continue on our merry way blithely ignoring such things.

To cast himself as the 'victim' or 'target' of feminism is disingenuous and unbecoming in any intelligent man.

[Berni]

class are irrelevant red herrings, since the world is mostly built for our benefit. I would imagine the herrings look a lot less red from the other side of the fence.

That's right. I'm telling you to check your privilege ;-)

[Dr Headgear - Wannabe viking]

Which is used, in effect, to tell us to shut up, whatever we think we may be able to contribute is worthless.

I don't regard myself as a victim of feminism, but I do think there are some feminists out there that are digging a grave for feminism itself.

Again, for the record, intersectionality is also used to shut up other women, if they're white, or middle class, or have the genitals they were born with. Not just men.

[Classic Jorge]

Then again, I'm pretty much the choir here, having been brought up almost entirely by a single mother who worked two jobs and got a degree on top of that.

I'm starting to think a large majority of the political feminists - usually middle/lower middle class girls reacting against their nuclear family backgrounds - are more interested in the fight than the results.

[Classic Jorge]

[redgunamo]

[Dr Headgear - Wannabe viking]

Hint: the ability to **** blood through a needle doesn't count as a skill that can be thought of as being "differently abled".

[Ashberto]

ISTR that a few years ago you were quite opposed to such practices.

[redgunamo]

[Dr Headgear - Wannabe viking]

We're all *******s.
We shouldn't be such *******s.
Though we should also able to live up to stoneage ideals. "I want a deep, sensitive caring bloke, who has a six pack, loads of cash and can kill a moose with his bare hands"

[Classic Jorge]

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

the 'strong' (which can be interpreted as 'most able/intelligent or adapted to circumstance) taking the biggest share, but in a civilised society, still bearing some responsibility for their fellow men (what degree of responsibility being the fundamental political issue).
That is a very different question than whether or not we should oppress women to make our lives more comfortable. Lumping the two in together clouds the issue and stops it being addressed. It also tries to claim feminism exclusively for the left, which is ultimately unhelpful.

[redgunamo]

[Mack]

[Mack]

Made me titter / totter.

[redgunamo]

when the wrong people are allowed entry into an institution, especially its upper echelons, it will always coincide with the right people simply moving on and pursuing other interests, often in another location entirely.

Like finally allowing women into the Long Room at Lord's coincided with the power in the game moving elsewhere.

[Berni]

crap is pitifully weak and self-indulgent. Women have been dealing with the pernicious, male-imposed mother/whore dichotomy for millennia (whilst also having to deal with pregnancy, childbirth, etc) and we're having a moan because we're asked to look vaguely presentable, earn a decent crust and be half-decent in bed? :hehe:

Diddums.

[redgunamo]

:clap:

[redgunamo]

football clubs that have no interest whatsoever in financial fairplay, as it would threaten their superior positions?

[Berni]

Only in my experience, that is simply male shorthand for 'I'm all in favour of feminism as long as I get to define its limits."

[Berni]

[Ashberto]

[Classic Jorge]

I do take issue with the methods that feminists employ to achieve their goals as they are actually harming their cause.

That said, I'm not sure my message, which is essentially "you wont ever achieve real equality unless you get men on board too" would be particularly popular among your suzanne moores and laurie pennys.

[redgunamo]

[Ashberto]

But even Chelsea support it now, as they're no longer the biggest shark in the tank and are not interested in an arms race they cannot win.

As Arsene has predicted, once every club is owned by a gazzillionaire you can bet they'll agree quite quickly to a spending cap.

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

equally, j? The fact that you even feel you need to be persuaded is partly the issue, no?

[Ashberto]

Brewerys' pricing strategy shows that they want people to drink at home so they can convert all the pubs into flats.

[redgunamo]

than hauling those beneath you up to your level?

[Berni]

[Classic Jorge]

[The JBear]

all upper class Victorians who like a romp with the galley maid whilst safe in the knowledge that our brood mare won't do a runner due to the requirement for financial security.

Doesn't really apply these days, does it?

[redgunamo]

[Classic Jorge]

And, whilst women certainly have a talent for chastising men, they have an equal if not greater talent in persuading them.

[redgunamo]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Got the painters in, have we?

[redgunamo]

[Classic Jorge]

[redgunamo]

it's difficult to get away from it.

[Berni]

I'm telling your missus you said that.

[Berni]

of ownership of another human being that infects the psyche of far too many men (and women). I believe it demeans both men and women, but I think its negative effects are more psychological than physical or financial these days.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

She'd have torn you limb from limb. As would my missus.

But if it makes you happy to patronise the poor things, go ahead. After all, they aren't as good as men so clearly need your support, you big tufts brute!

[Berni]

patronising women. You can check everything I've posted if you don't believe me.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Kindly do not tar us all with the same brush.

[Berni]

is probably sophistry.

Anyway, I think the discussion has been instructive and surprising in some cases.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

[Berni]

[Alexism - Atheoist]