btw, Camp Freddie that's how feminism began.

[Chief Arrowhead]

Feminism was a ploy by ugly women to gain access to the mainstream of society. Before that only attractive women were able to do so.

[Ashberto]

As an ideology that believes that the problem with the world is men, I completely oppose it, but I don't oppose the concept of equality. There's certainly no reason why only the most attractive women should be allowed opportunities.

[Chief Arrowhead]

it was about a woman's ability to get along WITHOUT a man. Working outside the home, becoming who you are. Contraception that a woman controlled (the pill)definitely was a catalyst and launched feminism into the mainstream in the 1960's.

Recall that not too long before women were essentially non-persons. They could not vote and through the tradition of progenitor could not own land or be an heir.

Now while sometimes problematic these obstacles did not serve as a deterrent to the attractive woman. In fact in the lower classes a woman had a much better chance than a man of "rising" up if she were particularly va-va-voom. This is still true today. But even a woman of means had to be attractive or face the "humility" of a forced marriage to a less than worthy man. Consider the lengths that women went to to attain thir cultures mores of "attractiveness. Removing ribs, binding feet in impossible shoes that created deformity. Consider the corset!

But even with all the tricks if a woman was not attractive she was closed down to society. she was a spinster, an old maid. If she accepted her lot she was the aunt with bon vivant ... but would never be able to attain the mainstream without a proper allure and a proper marriage.

The rise if feminism changed that for all the ugly women out htere.

[redgunamo]

Even our old friend from the Asterix tales, Julius Caesar, commented on it in his memoirs.

[Classic Jorge]

[Ashberto]

Also, a couple of world wars where women proved that they could do more than be domestic skivvies had a big influence. Then factor in the disproportionate rise in property prices which makes dual incomes more important, and something approaching workplace equality arises, although the extent of this is subject to debate.

The political desire for equality is one thing, but Feminism with a capital F is about more than that, and I think it has had influence in both positive and negative ways, helping to drive equality on one hand but coming out with monumental quantities of bull**** on the other. I suspect that some of your 'ugly' feminists have jumped on the bus promoting the latter, but there are probably plenty of attractive women who would consider themselves feminists with a small f. The CEO of the company I work for for starters. She certainly power-dresses, but I don't think she needs a corset. Captain Kirk, OTOH, did. Allegedly.

[Chief Arrowhead]

so perhaps I was a bit coarse, purposely so. :-D BUt I agree that on the whole society and our culture is in a much better place because of Feminism.

Hasn't been 100% to the good. We now have the phenomenon amongst kids in the 20's - ish of the beta male. (See Monty91). Marriage has now become the sole choice of the male resulting in many more out of wedlock births. Don't think that is a good thing. Men are more able to shirk their "responsibility" since everyone is "equal".

NOw, I must catch up on The latest from Downton Abbey ;-). When women were women and men were allowed to be stupid.