Hello Nighshift. I am enjoying your political discussion below.

[Arsenes' Wanger- Bring back Modd]

I am reading a very good novel at the moment, I AM PILGIM by Terry Hayes. It is his first novel. It alludes to some of the problems you are discussing but in essence is a crime novel. I recommend it to all of you. :wave:

[Classic Jorge]

I am driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, 'George go and fight these terrorists in Afghanistan'. And I did. And then God would tell me 'George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq'. And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, 'Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East'. And, by God, I'm gonna do it." Sharm el-Sheikh August 2003.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_7Q-tD8eW2rE/SXCq2PiiXdI/AAAAAAAACc4/SE8NvZNZAC8/s400/bush+smiling.jpg

[Arsenes' Wanger- Bring back Modd]

So our ideal of Democracy does not work in that regard.
It is their country. I am ok with what system of Government anybody wants in their own country.
Not a real big fan of violent oppression though.
My late father fought in Syria during the Second World War against the Vichy French.
Its funny how things go in History.

[Classic Jorge]

He didnt just blurt that out on a chat show or whilst drunk, he said that at a World Economic Forum in Egypt.

It's comforting to know that someone knows what all 1.5bn Muslims want though, well done with that.

[Arsenes' Wanger- Bring back Modd]

"some of the Muslims"
Never spoke for all Muslims. Do you want an intelligent converstaion or do you want to talk crap.
I can do either.

[Classic Jorge]

Especially when bush is confusing pulpits for lecterns, and just across the sinai from israel too, seemingly without incident. That's just a tiny example.

I'd say we're probably on fairly shaky ground if we're thinking of talking up our form of western democracy. It seems as morally and ethically bankrupt as most theocratic regime, if you ask me.

[Arsenes' Wanger- Bring back Modd]

And I can tell you that our new PM has the same problem. The Church,State and the Legal System should be seperate in an ideal democracy. This doesnt always happen.
The press as well. Rupert Murdoch just produced one of the most biased newspaper campaigns in Australian history through his Newspapers. Absolutely sickening with distortion and lack of balance.
We try for the ideal and fall short a lot of the time.
What my point was, some Muslims want the Church, State and Legal system to be as one.
If thats what they want in their own country, I am fine with that.

[Classic Jorge]

I dont think any country whose head of state is also their religious leader can lecture anybody else on the merits of their modern, western democracy and on that we both fail.

Or at least you lot only partially fail.

The point about bush is that what he said caused virtually no waves back home bar some light ribbing from John Stewart. That doesnt strike me as a people who particularly want their church and state separate either.

[Arsenes' Wanger- Bring back Modd]

the absolute collusion of the right wing Media with the the State.
It is all about profit lines in the Media now. Do not offend the big advertisers.
Oh, for a free Press.
Anyway, I just come on to tell you about this novel. If you like a good read, this is it.
Cheers. See, we can be nice to each other. Pleasure to chat. :wave:

[Chief Arrowhead]

Abbas and Shaath claimed they were said to them in private. They revealed this to the BBC for a Bush hitpiece.

[Arsenes' Wanger- Bring back Modd]

No need for you to comment on anything.
We don't want your sort around here.