Snin - Where did you get this idea that wind turbines use more energy to make than they ever

[Hillary]

produce? I'm genuinely interested in where you got this from.

[Luis Anaconda]

[Hillary]

The whole anti-wind movement is pretty much absent everywhere else on the planet.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

I thought they were proving a little disappointing. Clearly I must be an ignorant Daily Mail reader.

[Snin]

and for it to be accepted as fact and lost in the ngeneral chat:-) but I'm sure I must be right :rubchin:

[Brentwood]

He's quite funny to follow on Twitter because people keep pointing out to him that his new Macy's clothing line is all produced in China, after he kept going on about how bad it is that the US are losing industry to China

[Brentwood]

Meh

[Berni]

do take a very long time to break even, energy-wise.

This is in no small part due to the fact that the technology is way behind the levels of deployment and energy generation targets (the gearboxes go, see? The high dynamic loads to which wind turbine gearboxes are subject are one problem, but another is the variability in load due to changing wind condition. The variation in load spectrum from high peak to low loads places considerable – and often contradictory – demands on the bearings. The high static safety required for maximum load means that bearings with high load-carrying capacity are required, but when there is little wind and loads are low, this can lead to damage due to sliding of the rolling element set).

But it's all so heavily subsidised that nobody's going to let that stop them putting the things up. It's an absolute bonanza.

[Classic Jorge]

It's pretty fair to say that it's working out great for them. Also, especially in Andalusia (with their tradition of windmills and all), the windmills really work with the landscape. They look rather graceful and beautiful.

[Snin]

About 174,000,000 results (0.27 seconds)
Cookies help us deliver our services. By using our services, you agree to our use of cookies.
OKLearn more

Search ResultsDoes building turbines use more energy than they produce ...www.guardian.co.uk › Environment › Wind power‎CachedFeb 29, 2012 – The average windfarm produces 20-25 times more energy during its operational life than was used to construct and install its turbines.UK Wind Turbines Consume More Energy Than They Produce | Tory ...toryaardvark.com/.../uk-wind-turbines-consume-more-eneryg y-than-the... ‎CachedDec 29, 2010 – UK Wind Turbines Consume More Energy Than They Produce. Dec 29 ... there is a proposal to build a windfarm near

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=how+much+energy+does+making +a+wind+turbine+and+getting+it+in+place+use+%3F&sourceid =ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe =&redir_esc=&ei=SWbNUayLJ6fX7Aai-YH4Cw#rls=com.micro soft:en-gb%3AIE-SearchBox&sclient=psy-ab&q=does+maki ng+a+wind+turbine+use+more+power+than+they+produce&oq=do es+making+a+wind+turbine+use+more+power+than+they+ produce&am p;gs_l=serp.3...20719.38843.0.39015.59.53.0.3.3.0. 453.13728. 0j4j35j12j1.52.0...0.0...1c.1.18.psy-ab.GR_BJgTz_YM&pbx= 1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48572450,d.ZGU&fp=7d0 2d2cfdff1fbd&biw=681&bih=324 (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=how+much+energy+does+making+a+wind+turbin e+and+getting+it+in+place+use+%3F&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&ie=&oe=&redir_esc=&ei=SWbNUayLJ6fX7Aai-YH4Cw#rls=com.microsoft:en-gb%3AIE-SearchBox&sclient=psy-ab&q=does+making+a+wind+turbine+use+more+power+than+t hey+produce&oq=does+making+a+wind+turbine+use+more+power+than+ they+produce&gs_l=serp.3...20719.38843.0.39015.59.53.0.3.3.0.45 3.13728.0j4j35j12j1.52.0...0.0...1c.1.18.psy-ab.GR_BJgTz_YM&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48572450,d.ZGU&fp=7d02d2cfdff1fbd&biw=681&bih=324)

Vancouver Island and the ...Wind turbine costs more than it saves - Telegraphwww.telegraph.co.uk › Earth › Energy
Feb 10, 2011 – Since 2005, when it began producing energy, the turbine has been ... sums on turbines built in areas without enough wind to make a significant saving. .... Current global consumption is around 67kt and production around ... I now know I was wrong and I was giving them more credit than they deserved.Wind farms will create more carbon dioxide, say scientists - Telegraphwww.telegraph.co.uk › Earth › Energy › Wind Power
Feb 23, 2013 – ... Britain's wind turbines will create more greenhouse gases than they save, ... they say that the shrinking use of fossil fuels in overall electricity ...Domestic wind turbines may use more power than they ... - BBCwww.bbc.co.uk/...wind-turbines...use-more-power-than-they .../5960.htm... ‎CachedDomestic wind turbines have been found to produce only fractional amounts of power. ... Some used more power than they produced and even when they were working well the noise was ... Please note this clip is only available in Flash.

[Snin]

yogurt weaving tax loving moralitic facist do as we say countryside destroying cnuts

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

20% of their power at what cost? How efficient is it? What do they cost to maintain and repair?

They look pig-ugly. Even you couldn't possibly argue for such monstrosities on aesthetic grounds.

[Snin]

and the electricity is extortionate and also cuts out often with blackouts..pile of ****e

[PSRB]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

So during the periods they should be operating efficiently, they're stopped.

[redgunamo]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

You can't let facts get in the way of an eco-loony argument, b. Kindly return to the party line and get shovelling your hard-earned into the pockets of the enviroscammers.

[Snin]

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rmhttp/schools/primaryhistory/images/victorian_britain/children_in_factories/v_bradford_1873_industrial_landscape.jpg

they actually miss these days ??!!

[Hillary]

The other articles are the Telegraph :rolleyes: and various crap pressur groups. You ignored the first article from the Grauniad I see.

[Berni]

scientific evidence and such?

I get confused.

[Hillary]

[Hillary]

[Classic Jorge]

My point is that 20% of Spain's total energy generation is from wind power, how is that a meaningless statistic? I was pointing out that, in the last ten years, they've gone from nothing to generating a fifth of their total power sustainably.

[Berni]

Would you like an introduction to my august organ, h? Don't be shy.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

The Grauniad. All the lies Pravda was too embarrassed to print.

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

Perhaps some re-education would be in order.

[Classic Jorge]

http://www.dales.visit-yorkshire.info/images/generic/yorkshire_dales.jpg

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

We could start producing all our power requirements by burning the babies of the poor. Would that be a good thing?

[Classic Jorge]

I mean, maintenance costs aside - and dont forget there's maintenance costs with fossil fuels too - it's free.

And Ibiza is an island

[Ashberto]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

It's not the Cotswolds, is it? Couldn't they have made those cvottages any greyer or bleaker?

[Snin]

:-) no such thing of course

[PSRB]

[Classic Jorge]

Not to mention that future costs will be easier to forecast.

Just out of interest, what are the key things that make this a worse solution than fossil fuel?

[eastgermanautos]

[Classic Jorge]

What costs am I missing?

[Classic Jorge]

Nothing to do with the land and energy interests of the Barclay Brothers, of course

[PSRB]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/windpower/8028328/Br itains-offshore-windpower-costs-twice-as-much-as-coal-and-ga s-generated-electricity.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/windpower/8028328/Britains-offshore-windpower-costs-twice-as-much-as-coal-and-gas-generated-electricity.html)

[Classic Jorge]

That said, I did mention that the Barclay Brothers have significant interests in land and energy and that might have something to do with their stance on renewable energy.

[eastgermanautos]

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

turbine is very much a 'how long is a piece of string' question. Not only are you measuring the impact of building, shipping, installing, maintaining and running these things, you are also having to think about the energy consumption involved in getting the power they generate on the grid (actually the biggest infrastructural challenge - particularly with offshore. People tend to assume you just make electricity, put it in a little box and send it wherever it's needed. Clearly that is not the case and there are huge and expensive challenges in actually using this energy - generating electricity is actually the easy bit). Also, people don't take into account the fact that, for offshore in particular, one of the biggest boom industries has been in building the fleets of vessels required to maintain these things. They all consume fuel to build as well as run - are they being counted in the equation?
Plus, of course, you're dealing with a technology that - at the most optimistic level (this is a Renewables UK figure) is only able to operate at 30% capacity. That figure is highly debatable and certainly much lower for offshore wind turbines. So we are not talking about efficient energy generation here. Combine that with huge requirements in terms of infrastructure and you have a huge energy cost that may have to be amortised over decades to be repaid.

So it's complicated, see?

[Snin]

[Classic Jorge]

That's the central part of the problem. It also stands to reason that the fossil fuels infrastructure requires all of this auxiliary and infrastructure stuff too, which the people fond of making the argument for fossil fuels seem to miss out.

You're right though, the biggest problem with electricity is storage and that holds true for anything with a battery.

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

The other is that they are the finest energy storage mechanism the world has ever known. Nothing comes close to them in terms of energy density except nuclear fuels - and they are a teensy bit tricky.

[eastgermanautos]

[Berni]

the rare earth materials that make the permanent magnet motors that are required to make the most efficent, direct drive wind turbines, thus driving up their cost hugely?

[Classic Jorge]

...ever more scarce, and like anything that's supply is dwindling so is the cost.

I'm a ****ty environmentalist, I've got the carbon footprint of a texan, but even I can see that it makes sense to invest in something that isnt bought from abroad at a huge cost which will only increase.

[Classic Jorge]

[Berni]

[Luis Anaconda]

siesta-taking lazy *******s