Is a successful succession possible post-Wenger?

[PeterStoreysCab]

I see no evidence that there is a management team in place that will survive in the post-Wenger era and that in all likelihood a new team of management will arrive en masse.
Also the team has been made in image of Wenger. This may prove to be very difficult for a new manager with new ideas to deal with.
This could prove to be very destabilising. Strangely Chelsea have arrived in 3 European finals with "interim managers" - Grant, De Matteo and now Benitez. They have got 2 draws and a win.
Perhaps we should go the Chelsea way and build a management team with short term coach appointments?
Mouriniho will probably arrive with better players in place than he had first time around. They certainly are more entertaining. What happens if he pushes on with 3/4 new signings of the calibre of Drogba/Carvalho/Essien?
I shan't waste any words on Tottenham - they will sink back into their sewer in short time.

[Nicosia Gooner]

[PeterStoreysCab]

[Redflag]

Wenger will hang on for a while providing he has Champions League football and Stan continues to pay him his massive wages .
It will take a massive effort to clear up the mess that Wenger leaves behind when he does decide to depart.
It could be a case of here one minute and gone the next,like when the previous shareholders suddenly departed leaving us with Stan in command.

[Nicosia Gooner]

http://www.awimb.com/fudforum/index.php?t=showposts&id=5 996&rid=31&S=0d816a46380bfccfcfde4442c67c172b (http://www.awimb.com/fudforum/index.php?t=showposts&id=5996&rid=31&S=0d816a46380bfccfcfde4442c67c172b)

[Nicosia Gooner]

:hehe:

[Redflag]

[Supermac1976]

:driving: :eat: :wave:

[Nicosia Gooner]

[Nicosia Gooner]

[Redflag]

you are a f**king bag of nerves who goes into one every-time there's a post about Arsene that doesn't fit in with your own views on him.
The smilies don't work ,they make it worse .

What are your predictions for the Super Sunday games ?

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

And what exactly the new manager inherited from Wenger.

[Supermac1976]

:driving: :wave: Pity you're not up here on sunday, I could have shown you a 16th cenury coaching inn/pub in the middle of Newcastle.

[Ashberto]

regime changes.

Those who want to prove that new managers every year are agood thing can point at Chelsea. Those who want to prove the opposite can point at Man Utd.

[Redflag]

[Redflag]

[Redflag]

In fact they even got relegated one season.
Ferguson arrived at the right time,but he was under pressure after 3 seasons without a trophy. After he started winning them he never stopped. Even he would never have lasted 8 years without winning one, after doing the treble.

[Deleted Account]

who tries to bully those who don't share his views off the board.

[Nicosia Gooner]

[Ashberto]

[Redflag]

[Nicosia Gooner]

you can dream about for over 30 years.

You'll do well if you can pretend as well as I did ;-)

[Redflag]

other sides have won them and with less resources than what Wenger has. This blaming everything regarding Wenger's lack of success onto Chelsea and City is really just an excuse.

[Nicosia Gooner]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Or got 4th and the FA Cup.

etc.

You see therein lies the issue with this retarded *******s, none of us can see the future.

[Nicosia Gooner]

[Monty91]

in the last 8 years you'd still support him?

[Redflag]

[Redflag]

When he decided to play the kids against Chelsea in Cardiff,that's when it all started to go wrong for him.

[Ashberto]

having got close enough to do so. That in itself doesn't constitute complete failure though. While it's true that the Chelsea/City thing is used as an excuse for winning nothing, the other side of the coin is that it gets completely ignored.

Even spending lots of money doesn't guarantee success. In fact, City have been poor overall considering the amount they have spent. Liverpool have also spent a lot, and they are nowhere.

[Redflag]

obviously wining anything must be an improvement on winning nothing.

[Monty91]

would you still support his position as manager?

[Ashberto]

He had promised his young players a clear run in that tournament and that's what he did.

[Redflag]

One moment money is the reason why Wenger failed,and the next minute having it did not help City this season.
In the end it's a case of management using the resources to the best of their ability. Money alone does not win trophies .
QPR have plenty of money,but they still got relegated ,because their managers spent the money buying duff players.

[Redflag]

and the question was what would be an improvement in the future.
I was not relating this to Wenger,but to a NEW MANAGER.
Wenger in my view will never win anything again with us and it's possible that if he fails to get a result at Newcastle that he may say au revoir and get on his bike in the summer break.

[Monty91]

if he'd won two league cups in the past 8 years. In fact, I've just checked and this is actually the third time I've asked it in this thread.

You still refuse to answer. Why?

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

he'll just ignore you. It's bloody infuriating - although a useful reminder that any internet dispute is generally a waste of time for all involved.

[Redflag]

Let's say that instead of using the LC final against Mourinho to test out his pet youth scheme ideas ( he did it again against Chelsea in the FAC semi at Wembley later) Wenger had put out a stronger side against what was a weak Chelsea one that day,and then won the Cup. Then afterwards this win had provided the confidence that winning things can sometimes do,and Wenger had then gone on to compete for better trophies realistically ,then of course I would have supported him.
I can only go on what happened in the real world though,and not in your fantasy one.

[Redflag]

[Nicosia Gooner]

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

Such as with your assertion that I constantly chatted **** re: our financial situation the other day. I asked you for a single example (I always try and maintain some level of accuracy), and you just disappeared.


And as per usual, when called out you just start spamming insults, calling people you don't even know dopey and stupid. It's embarassing, mate.

From what I've gathered you're a grown man, yet you act like a child on here, and have no clue about how to debate reasonably - instead choosing to try and shout over and ignore people with good points to make.

[Redflag]

but you just keep on repeating them.
You claimed that we have the same wage ceiling that Tottenham have,this despite the fact that our wage bill is 150m and theirs 90m.
Wenger is on 7.5m a year for starters, AVB is not on anything like that wage, and there are no players at Tottenham,even Bale,who are on 90k a week ,70+k is their ceiling for players.
Are you happy now, or do you want to dispute my claims?

[Monty91]

Done that differently, and you'd still want him as manager.

Can we confirm, for the record, that this is your position?

[Redflag]

are symptomatic of some of the problems that I have with his management.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

You understand that wage ceiling refers to the amount we can offer our best-paid players, right? Bale is on 90k and Walcott/Poldi are on 100k. Pretty similar no?


Even in the initial post in which I compared them, I included the footnote that our total wage bill is much higher than Spurs, so what more do you want?


This is why, during that particular debate, Hillary called you out for just trying to shout over people without actually reading the comments you are replying to.

You are so desperate to get your message across and grind that axe, that you leave an sense of reason at the door.

[Redflag]

than spuds is. The two clubs accounts show this. So your figures just do not add up.
You started the insults ,not me, now you don't like it when you get some back.

[Monty91]

[Redflag]

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

I already acknowledged the difference in wage bill in my very first post. The total wage bill is irrelevant when discussing the wage ceiling.

We could have 200 players on 20,000 a week and have a much larger wage bill than Spurs, but our wage ceiling would still be 20,000 compared with 80-90,000 a week for Bale and Adebayor (depending on who you read).

Do you understand? Wage bill =/= wage ceiling. They are not the same. Different. Unequal.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

ale only signed a new long-term deal at Spurs last June but the club are ready to open new contract talks at the end of the season to raise the winger’s wages from £90,000 to £150,000 per week.

[Redflag]

I don't like the man,but his policy of paying less to younger players until they have proven themselves and more to keep top ones looks like a better one than Wenger's.
The selling of top players rather than pay them more money has been a problem for Wenger - along with his insistence on trying to prove his youth policy works. Fabregas blew that out the water.
Wenger, relying on Diaby staying fit this season was rather stupid, and only he would have done that.

[Redflag]

to get shut of him. So once again you are the one who is not making sense.

[Redflag]

however that one did say that 75k was the basic and there were add ons,so perhaps he is getting more due to his performances this season.

[Monty91]

Secondly, is Alex Ferguson the only one? So the only only person you can think of to compare favourably with Wenger is the most successful manager ever?

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

The fact is our wage ceilings are similar. That is all. Although at least you have stopped trying to dispute that by bringing in our total wage, for which I thank you.

I'm sad you don't think I've been making sense, but I assure you I have. You are the one who has consistently failed to grasp the difference between two unique measurements, and has essentially been going round in circles.

(notice how I don't start calling you 'thick', or 'dopey', btw)

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

What we do know is that our wage ceilings are similar, when compared to those of City/Chelsea/United who all have players who earn well over 200k a week.

[Red N White Army]

Hindsight is wonderful and all that. The main reason our wage bill is so much more though is we have double the playing staff and many many more club employees. We're a much bigger outfit.

[Redflag]

How many answers do you want ,you asked a question and I answered it.
Wenger in my view has wasted vast amounts of money that he could have put to better use.

If you think otherwise then that's your prerogative.

[Redflag]

young players get a lot less there than what we pay them.
And spuds wage bill is 60m a year less than ours,so our players, and manager ,must be getting more than their ones are.
We are in reality nearer to United than to the spuds on wages .
The clubs accounts say so.

[Monty91]

So, to reiterate your position, the only manager you can think of who is doing a better job than Arsene Wenger is the now retired Alex Ferguson, manager of a far bigger and richer club than us.

If Arsene Wenger is so useless, why are there not any more obvious candidates for managers who could do a better job than the one single (flawed) example you have given?

[Red N White Army]

Plus, the strategy of paying younger players more than others was very deliberate given the constraints on spending after the stadium move. That's now been revisited to some extent because we can afford a bit more and they're getting the hump with players clearing off once we've developed them

[Redflag]

this mantra of no one could have done better than Arsene that you keep trotting out is another flawed one,because you have to believe that we had no chance of beating Birmingham in the LC final and that losing to Bradford in the LC this season and Blackburn at home in the FAC. And what if Arsene finishes behind AVB on Sunday?
Will you then claim that no one else could have done any better?
Tbh,it's all getting to be rather silly ,because it's obvious that Wenger,with his resources ,and experience,should be doing better against this type of opponent than what he is doing.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

But, again, I was talking merely about the wage ceilings - in reference to our previous discussion.

[Redflag]

The stadium debt is easily covered by gate receipts and stadium and other sponsorship deals. Wenger went down an idealogical route that failed him at Monaco . Excuses like this stadium debt have been dreamed up to explain the failures in the policy that many warned about when he started off with it.
We have 150m in the club accounts and the highest gate receipts in world football . We should be doing better. End of.

[Monty91]

I've given you ample opportunity throughout this thread, and until now all you're offered is Alex Ferguson. AVB pops up in your last post, but I am sure you would concede that he is still very much unproven compared to Wenger, so I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume he is not one of your actual suggestions for who would do a better job than Wenger - or is he....?????

As for debt - there are different kinds of debt, aren't there. Chelsea technically owe a debt to their owner and have made noises about breaking even in the coming years. Are you going to suggest our resources are comparable to Chelsea's?

[Red N White Army]

We do have a cash surplus, which we have to hold some back because of the debt - that's just prudent. If income falls (and given the recession, it wasn't inconceivable that the arse would fall out of football), we have a safety net. To spend it all would be daft and risky. Plus, as someone who clearly has looked at the accounts, you'll see that we roughly break even without property and player sales. The only way to allow us to spend more would be to increase our revenues - which we are on the brink of doing through better commercials. So whilst there may have been something idealistic about his approach, it was also necessary given the state of the finances.

[Redflag]

I merely pointed out that I preferred his approach to wages than Wenger's one.
It's Stan's job to appoint a new manager, not mine, so if you don't mind I will leave that to him when the time comes. Unless of course he sells up before then. He's known for hanging on to his clubs though and dragging them into mediocrity, so he could be around for awhile.

[Monty91]

to expect you to be able to offer at least one suggestion for a suitable candidate, when you are being so absolute in your belief that he should go.

The only way it would be justified for you to not give any suggestions is if you felt Wenger's incompetence had reached such extreme levels, and that he was dragging us down so fast, that it was now a case of "anyone but Wenger"

But I don't believe that is what you think. In which case, you need to give us some names (or at least one), otherwise you have no credibility.

How can you be so sure he should go, if you don't know if there's anyone out there who would do a better job? Where does your confidence come from?

[Redflag]

the past owners like Fiszman, thought they were going to get more Henry's and Vieria's that they could sell on.
Too many duff players were signed up though that have cost the club a fortune.

[Redflag]

or even just as good . The fact that he's not yet agreed to sign a new contract,and says that he's waiting to see how the current players perform and to evaluate his own performance, suggests that he himself is not convinced that he's the only man for the job.
I will settle for that at the moment and see how things work out for him.
Personally I think he should have gone 5 years ago before the rot set in so to speak. Now it could all end in tears for him.

[Monty91]

Thank you, we got there in the end :-)

So remind me again why you would be prepared to take the risk of getting rid of him, when there is not even one single candidate who you would be sufficiently confident would do a better job that you are prepared to name them?

Also, if he is doing as bad a job as you claim, how can there not be any obvious candidates to replace him? Surely anyone would be better?

[Redflag]

no one knew if Wenger himself would be a success ,same GG.
If Wenger himself is now not confident of himself,then why should anyone else be ?
I think it's time for a change and to give someone else a go,they might fail,but at least it would liven things up from 4th place is a trophy .
Perhaps the days of long term managers are now over and they died with Ferguson retiring . Wenger is looking like a bit of a dinosaur type now with all of the young guns snapping at his heels,and it doesn't get any easier with his old nemesis Jose returning to inflict more pain and gain next term.

[Monty91]

the usual abuse you throw at Wenger. Is it in fact the case that when all is said and done, after weighing up his qualities versus his faults, you actually think he's doing a good job, but would simply like to see if someone else could do better?