Most of the strong Wenger outers as I will call them. always usually have the highest regard

[Pat Vegas]

for George Graham.

Certain age of supporters perhaps? But some are too young imo to really remember this era correctly imo. me included. I recall the games but was a youngster so really I can not comment fully on this.

Where as the older supporters have seen the club through many different situations, managers etc.

I don't know what I am trying to say. But it seems their solution is to get rid of Wenger and start playing in a manner from 25 years ago :shrug: I am not sure this is the solution.

[Classic Jorge]

The closest real world parallel would be the surly teen slamming his bedroom door and shouting "I wish you werent my parents, I is I was NEVER BORN!"

[Dorset Gooner]

generation that have no patience. I like GG for what he won at a time when we hadn't won anything for ages. At the time I honestly thought it unlikely we would ever win a title in my life time.
However, I like some could see the slow decline due to financial restraints over the move to the new stadium it doesn't mean I want Wenger out or disagree with the club, frustration more than anything.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

[Billy Goat Sverige]

40 than 20.

[Classic Jorge]

EUFS is just retarded, basically.

[modd]

he was a wonderful manager who made us a winning team , which then arsene carried on . They both had different style of doing it but in the end both were winners. :bow:

Although think we became more of cup team under george from 1993 to 1995.

[The JBear]

[redgunamo]

It is, however, more traditional for a football club to change its manager than to keep him on regardless. It's just what football clubs do, from time to time.

Of course, as you suggest, the discussion has become ridiculously polarised.

[Hillary]

fans of that generation who have never really liked Wenger, due to his fancy Dan ways and general foreign-ness.

Even when we were winning stuff, there always used to be whinges about how we never got people into the box or wouldn't shoot at every opportunity.

[modd]

to get another year of champions league football without him.

[Hillary]

[Classic Jorge]

....though, which I dont think it necessarily is. I mean, a lot of these poor misguided flyds have been raised on saturation levels of sub-standard sky/motd "analysis".

When scholars like Wedknapp, Collymore and Savage are the foremost thinkers of your day you have to worry.

[redgunamo]

of minutes at the end of the cup final in '98.

[Dorset Gooner]

but in the bigger picture I do think the younger generation have less patience when it comes to football. We can blame the likes of sky & the media for some of that.

[Dorset Gooner]

[Hillary]

rather than new ones.

It's always fairly easy to dismiss them as JCLs but that's simply not the case. Uttoxeter, for example, has probably seem more Arsenal matches than anyone else on the board and has followed them all over the place.

[Monty91]

This is a man, remember, who had scored 4 cup final goals already.

A two minute run-around would have been meaningless to him.

[Hillary]

I barely saw the ball all match. Hoof....Wright....goal.

It was also the last Arsenal game I ever paid on the day for. :nostalgia:

[Hillary]

[Monty91]

[Classic Jorge]

[Redflag]

Let's face it Arsene would have been shown the door at any other top club years ago.
There really is some sentimental old tosh spouted about him by his followers .

[Hillary]

Or was that the SF? We scored really early on, didn't we?

[redgunamo]

As it would to us, of course.

[Classic Jorge]

I doubt anybody could match what he's done on that budget

[Classic Jorge]

[Hillary]

sitting next to a rather dour Southampton fan.

[Monty91]

was in the semi final against sheff utd and was truly memorable, talked about at the time as one of the best ever.

The save against Soton was in the final and was less dramatic but brilliant none the less. Came in the last five minutes. Think it was from Brett Ormaroyd?

[Redflag]

His judgement in the transfer market has been poor,he's over paid average players on long contracts.
Then we have the dodgy results in the domestic cups every season.
Losing to Bradford away ,with his first team out and then Blackburn at home ,when again Wenger's lack of tactical astuteness regarding his substitutions was exposed.
Apart from all of these things he's doing a good job. :rubchin:

[Classic Jorge]

A lot of his cup sides have been picked on the basis of freshness, rather than form, as he's been saving players for the really important games. In fact, if anything, he's come more unstuck when fielding full strength teams, though I was at the Bradford match and I dont remember that being exactly our first xi.

Whatever small details you want to pick over and gripe about the fact remains he's done stuff no other manager could have and for that he deserves at least some respect from you, however grudging.

[Redflag]

, I respect what he's achieved,but I don't see why he should be judged any different to other managers.
At any other top club he would have been shown the door years ago. Fact.

[Classic Jorge]

[Redflag]

[Classic Jorge]

[Redflag]

[Peter]

It isnt a fact thathehas done better than any other manager could have done. There is no way of ever knowing whether this is true or not.

[Classic Jorge]

Tony Pulis.

Only a moron would suggest that our only criteria for success right now is trophies, you wouldnt be a moron, would you?

[Classic Jorge]

[Monty91]

have swapped around their managers and done better than us over those 8 years?

Oh yes, that would be none.

[Peter]

Its some way between conjecture and truism, depending on what that 'stuff' is

Either way, i cant see a genuine fact in there.

[Peter]

Culd we argue that spurs have done better over the last 8 years? Given that they were **** 8 years ago, have swapped managers a few times, have finished in the top four twice in the last three years and are very close to doing so again, and have won a trophy?

Over the 8years in question one could argue that they have 'achieved' more, at least in the sense of improvement. Their managerial changes seem to have been key to this success, certainly in the last two instances.

And on pure pedantry, we are actually backed by more billionaires than anyone else, including the richest man in britain

:-)

[redgunamo]

Those in our weight-class anyway :rubchin:

[Monty91]

All the smaller clubs who have come up and consolidated themselves as premier league clubs.

[Peter]

Of which there are, by definiton, very few.

I suppose the point is that their managerial changes have shown evidence of both. Some really bad (ramos) some really good (harry, to be fair).

Of course, our success has to be measured against our backdrop. Im not sure wenger has performed miracles, but he hasnt been far off. I think winning the league would hve been bloody close to a miracle given the financial restraints.

My main reason for wanting him to stay is that i want him here when the sitution improves. Firstly because he will buy the right players and create a great side, and secondly because he deserves it having done all the hard work.

[Monty91]

so do they even count as a 'top club'?

[Peter]

Brett ormerod and ian ormondroyd

Or it was a typo :-)

[Peter]

But arguably only ever having won the league twice might :-)

They are close to being a top club, and you really narrowed the field. The only genuinely top clubs are us, united and liverpool, in the historical sense, with chelsea and city in there on money, and spurs on, well, whatever it is they have.

And out of those, pretty much all are billionaire backed to some extent, although only city and chelsea rely wholly on the sugar daddy model.

Liverpool have been considersbly less successful than us (apart from the champions league amd a few cups) have spent considersbly more and changed manager a few times. At least we are not them. Racist as well

[Monty91]

Two top clubs that have chopped and changed managers in the hope of, very specifically, becoming a top four club. Neither have succeeded.

The reason we have kept Wenger is more to do with this continued staving off of our direct competitors than the fact that he won a bunch of trophies in his first seven years at the club.

[redgunamo]

"That single minute was the finishing line of a two-year process with Mr Mourinho and of 10 with Inter.

"I do appreciate the greatness of a manager who is winning a final and doesn’t use his last sub just to let that player come on – that manager knows the importance of the details.

"Then there are some who don’t think about a champion on the bench who is finishing his career, even though they are 3-0 up. They don’t think to give him the emotion of the substitution."

[redgunamo]

based on titles won (who is the 20th most successful club in Germany? Or Spain?).

Liverpool probably don't count either based on the fact that they are already extremely fat, having had so much success already.