dear arsene, you're right when you say we should respect english footballing tradition and applaud

[plastic james]

the mancs.

but what exactly is traditional about us selling our best player to them? did it occur to the club that selling him to them was a blow to the traditions of this club? no it didn't it was all about money, now you're giving us a lesson on footballing traditions to our fans?

shame on you, mr wenger

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

My memory isn't the best but he wasn't far off our shinging light back then.

Tradition you see. Wd Arsene.

[Classic Jorge]

[plastic james]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

f**k him, I'm tired of hearing about him.

[Classic Jorge]

[plastic james]

[Luis Anaconda]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

Precedent/tradition, one and the same.

We sell our players, it is what we do, always have. Especially those when we have little or no choice.

Can't believe chaps are still f**king banging on about this 9 or whatever months later. Man upp ffs.

[Classic Jorge]

[plastic james]

was just wondering if traditions was so important, when that fax came in from united, why they didnt say, they are our rivals, we cant just sell him to them, we rather accept less money from juventus.

but now traditions are used to cool down the anger of the fans, it seems disingenuous

[Luis Anaconda]

with just a month left on his contract and he could walk for free. I imagine everybody would be delighted

[Ashberto]

really has got tiresome.

[Luis Anaconda]

[plastic james]

otherwise, the board migtht think, selling star players to english rivals is allright, as the fans will just get on with it.

i think a bit of resistant from the fans on this issue is the best interest of arsenal fc imo

[Classic Jorge]

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

I don't mean that in a condascending manner by the way.

Simply that if you think the Arsenal board give a single **** about the concerns of fans when it comes to how they shoudl run the business then you are deluded and mistaken.

To realise £25m for an asset or to receive zero, there really is no argument.

[plastic james]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

sit down, shut up, and support the team. If you don't like it, leave it to those who do.

It's just a football club. You have no rights to it. No have not one single reason to feel anger with it, or feel that your wishes should be taken into account.

People have lost all perspective. I blame Sky.

[Steve Williams - gay for Mark Knopfler]

There was really only one destination. We could force nothing.

[Red N White Army]

[plastic james]

btw, i wasn't arguing keeping him here,thats insane. i think selling him to juve was an option, if we accepted abit less money. he wanted to get out anyway after that statement, so that was doable

[Bromley Gooner]

[Sir Charlie of Nicholas]

I don't care, I really don't care. He wanted out, he went, that's it.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

What a world we live in :-(

[Luis Anaconda]

If it makes you feel better to conjure up some anger despite the clear evidence, fine

[redgunamo]

[Mack]

[plastic james]

they used a release clause.

lewandowski hasn't been sold, he has a year left on his contract and dortmund are refusing to sell him to bayern even though wants to go there. which is why united could get him.

our behaviour cannot be defended, we acted like whores, with no principles or beliefs

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

But their success since then is hardly down to luck

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

in his contract?? :shrug:

[Nicosia Gooner]

[plastic james]

[Hillary]

on his contract and we were being offered £24m.

What choice did we have?

[Hillary]

[Luis Anaconda]

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

RvP went to United because he held all the cards, as does Gotze in his move away from Dortmund. What I was trying to suggest was that often, no matter how well a club is ostensibly run, they don't have complete control in numerous situations - such as Gotze's move to Bayern and RvP's to United.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

[plastic james]

how about accepting 18/19 million from juventus?

RVP after his statement wouldn't stay here, how about telling him you can join any team abroad???

[Nicosia Gooner]

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

Is the 'logic' I heard spouted just this morning :-(

[plastic james]

[Hillary]

Jeeeeeez

[Monty91]

A statement from Rooney read: "He did not give me any of the assurances I was seeking about the future squad."

[Hillary]

[Monty91]

[eastgermanautos]

[plastic james]

is that why he agreed wages with juve....and only decided to pull out when he realised we would deal with the mancs?

information and facts are useful, you know, rather defend the club blindly

[Nicosia Gooner]

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

[Hillary]

[plastic james]

and i'm 100% sure RVP statement was stronger

[Nicosia Gooner]

[Maravilloso Marvo]

[redgunamo]

Robin actually did us a favour there. We want as much money as we can get and he was sympathetic to that.

[plastic james]

http://www.football-italia.net/19197/van-persie-visited-juve ntus-%E2%80%93-report (http://www.football-italia.net/19197/van-persie-visited-juventus-%E2%80%93-report)


http://myjuventus.net/juve-mrs-van-persie-gave-her-ok-for-tu rin/ (http://myjuventus.net/juve-mrs-van-persie-gave-her-ok-for-turin/)

http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/football/news/article/-/13704338/ agent-of-arsenal-ace-van-persie-agrees-juventus-terms-during -turin-visit/ (http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/football/news/article/-/13704338/agent-of-arsenal-ace-van-persie-agrees-juventus-terms-during-turin-visit/)


http://www.football-italia.net/33427/van-persie-asked-juve-b lessing (http://www.football-italia.net/33427/van-persie-asked-juve-blessing)

[Mack]

[Nicosia Gooner]

Juventus

:hehe:

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

Yahoo News :hehe: :hehe: :hehe: :hehe:

[Yesterday Once More]

[Luis Anaconda]

[Classic Jorge]

I was recently reading the book of genesis.

It's an interesting read, not least because it appears god was quite the fan of slavery.

[plastic james]

never mind darwin, this isnt 1935

what is your views on ***uyama's theory "the end of history", that the capitalistic way of organising a society is the ultimate one? and how does that effect arsenal fc, specially in these times of a globalised world economy?

[eastgermanautos]

have lost a sense of any value in the collective. admittedly, the difficult years of the 70s will have pushed you in that direction. but there are occadions when the team comes first.

[plastic james]

where did the club say RVP refused to go italy?

[Classic Jorge]

Seriously, especially as a bloke of colour, that god was so big on slavery must seem a bit confusing it. Giving slaves to Isaac and Jacob doesnt seem a very godly thing to do, at least from the slaves' perspective.

[halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

But I chose not to use it in this debate because of the high likelihood of it being utter *******s (as with the 'sources' you chose to share with us)

[plastic james]

slavery wasn't linked to colour. infact slavery was the way of the days and only in the 16th century when huge number of slaves from africa was brought to america did slavery became an issue linked to blacks in the west.

infact for long time after that slavery had nothing to do with colour in most parts of the world.

[Classic Jorge]

I just found it very interesting that there's a rather massive contradiction there, especially with the church being very anti-slavery.

Is the word of god not sacred?

[redgunamo]

[Mack]

http://www.awimb.com/fudforum/index.php?t=tree&goto=3527 720&rid=6252&S=358fc5be303e1300e40bdb909db892ad (http://www.awimb.com/fudforum/index.php?t=tree&goto=3527720&rid=6252&S=358fc5be303e1300e40bdb909db892ad)
Not that took him that seriously before..

[plastic james]

thee were no blacks there, not to talk about the slavery during the roman empire who were white.

but slavery was an institution before the church, it was seen as spoil of war, and was common practice for thousands of years. the church recommended the freeing of slaves, but i agree it did not do enough to go against it. on the other hand its not easy to change deep rooted practices.

for example, slavery is mostly gone now, but racism is very much alive, no church or even state openly promotes it. yet its there, sometimes the message isn't the problem but people, jorge.

[Classic Jorge]

I'm actually quite up on the history of it all, for instance I know that the word slav and the word slave are essentially one and the same, but it was just the contradiction of it all that interested me.

Presumably, what with the word and deed of god being law and all, you are also rather pro-slavery.

[plastic james]

the world having an inteligent design is more inline with the world than we live in.

you want to build a house, a car, a baby, even score a goal, everything needs an intelligent aim and design behind it.

i dont remember too many sky scrapers rising with an explosion, thats something you would expect cartoon network watchers to believe, not a grown man.

[Classic Jorge]

[plastic james]

God dealt with his prophets in their time. every time has its practices. letting Issac have an slave has nothing to do with our times, just as letting Moses out magic the Egyptians, yet we're told to stay away from magic.

every time has its norms and conventions, its recommendations and taboos. but the central line stays the same. which is prepare your self for the next life by being a good person, believe in God and be kind to people.

[Bromley Gooner]

[Classic Jorge]

I'm confused tbh, do you wear coats made from more than one cloth or cast your women out of the house when they bleed?

I mean, it's almost as if people are cherrypicking what works for them and kind of making this **** up as they go along.

Maybe they should underline the stuff in the bible that still actually applies or something.

So, if you are anti-slavery and god is pro-slavery - which I think it's safe to assume he is, what with gifting people hundreds of slaves multiple times - then arent you literally going against god?

Have you considered hinduism?

[Mack]

based upon a false dichotomy – that design in nature is necessarily intelligent and that evolution is an “undirected process� incapable of producing design. The premise that design = intelligence, evolution = random is false By showing the appearance of design in nature you think that this verifies intelligent design. Thus is , with respect, bollox.

'Evolution is capable or producing design also, and it is not a random process. Natural selection is the non-random survival of organisms based upon their inherited traits. Mutation and variation is random, and the long-term path of evolutionary change is best described as chaos, but natural selection allows for the non-random accumulation of favorable changes.'
You really need to open your mind.

[plastic james]

which is why i think the muslims have it easy, they argue every word in their book should be fallowed, maybe its a hassle, but atleast its clear.

never the less i believe in GOD 100%, i can feel it in my joints, as inconsistent as the church is, being an atheist is a waste of time, waste of purpose and waste life, to believe you're born, you go to school, then work, then you get married, and then you work til 65 and then you wait for death is meaningless and shallow, i don't believe life is about working, eating, ****ting and dying.


thus atheism is not an option for me. i'll stick with this for now because i'm sure we have a purpose.